Are we perhaps being too careful not to offend someone? Can we lighten up a bit?

[Jenta]

I know as a company website you need to be careful but things like this are a little extreme dont you think?

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=93256

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Since we are a family site (a lot of minors are visiting), that is not extreme. Your request is allowed, and we gave you the possibility to handle the result using PM. We are not restricting you, so i don't see the reason for your complaint.

And although we do listen (i know some people think different) to what our members suggest, i don't think this is an issue that is open for discussion.

[Jenta]

As I replied in the post, I think the icon is not much different than one you have here yourselves. Why it crosses the line, in your opinion, I'm not altogether sure. Your icon represents a smilie that has been murdered. My request is for one that commits suicide. Is there really that much of a difference? It's just a smilie.

If that is in fact the case, murder is ok but suicide is not then I think my complaint is valid.

Also, you are restricting me however small it may appear to you. I don't have PMs enabled. I would have to turn them on to recieve this smilie. While it is my choice to have PMs disabled, it is your choice to make me turn them on to recieve said smilie.

As far as your comment that this issue should not be open for discussion, why is that? I don't mean to make a mountain out of molehill here but please don't use your power to close this thread and have the final say.

Lets discuss the merits of my concern. That being that, based on the information I have just laid out, I think you overeacted to my smilie request . Btw, that's not even counting the
fornicating smilies you host here.

[Erwin]

All Marco did was remove a smilie he thought was offensive. Your post was not removed, your thread is still there, your request (though it's in the wrong forum - what does a smilie have to do with vB3.5 mod request?) is still there in the wrong forum.

In your own words, "lighten up a bit".

[Tony G]

Arguments can break out very easily on large forums like these ones, have many people involved, so it's best that we remove things which are potentially offensive, to avoid these situations before they happen.

[Boofo]

As I replied in the post, I think the icon is not much different than one you have here yourselves. Why it crosses the line, in your opinion, I'm not altogether sure. Your icon represents a smilie that has been murdered. My request is for one that commits suicide. Is there really that much of a difference? It's just a smilie.

If that is in fact the case, murder is ok but suicide is not then I think my complaint is valid.

Also, you are restricting me however small it may appear to you. I don't have PMs enabled. I would have to turn them on to recieve this smilie. While it is my choice to have PMs disabled, it is your choice to make me turn them on to recieve said smilie.

As far as your comment that this issue should not be open for discussion, why is that? I don't mean to make a mountain out of molehill here but please don't use your power to close this thread and have the final say.

Lets discuss the merits of my concern. That being that, based on the information I have just laid out, I think you overeacted to my smilie request . Btw, that's not even counting the
fornicating smilies you host here.

A solution was offered and a compromise was agreed upon for the good of the forums and still you're not happy. We all have to work together here and get along. We can't do it all your way just because you think it should be that way. I think what was offered was very fair. If you choose not to enable pms to use it, then that is your choice.

As Erwin so delicately said, "in your own words, lighten up a bit." Another wise compromise. ;)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Just to set something straight, his post was (if i remember correct) not edited.

He didn't post a smilie, he requested someone would make one for him. In his request (again if i recall correct) he already posted himself 'if this is allowed'.

I replied, yes the request is allowed, but posting such a smilie is not, so that part should be handled in private (PM, mail, or however you choose).

Edit: Neither of your posts have been closed, so i don't understand why you are commenting on closing posts.

The only 'non discussable topic' i am referring to, is if we should allow content that is not suitable to minors.

[Jenta]

All Marco did was remove a smilie he thought was offensive. Your post was not removed, your thread is still there, your request (though it's in the wrong forum - what does a smilie have to do with vB3.5 mod request?) is still there in the wrong forum.

In your own words, "lighten up a bit".

erwin, look at the title of my post in that thread - notice how i say hope its ok to post this here because it was a graphic request

there was no other forum for graphics request at the time so you are dead wrong on that one

marco did not remove a smilie - again you are dead wrong

i see you have chosen to ignore the issue i have raised
why is it ok for a smilie representing murder and one representing suicide not ok?

seeing as all you have done is give this a cursory glance based on your inaccurate comments, i now understand how this site is run

A solution was offered and a compromise was agreed upon for the good of the forums and still you're not happy. We all have to work together here and get along. We can't do it all your way just because you think it should be that way. I think what was offered was very fair. If you choose not to enable pms to use it, then that is your choice.

As Erwin so delicately said, "in your own words, lighten up a bit." Another wise compromise. ;)

you miss the point
was a solution really called for?
remember, you have a smilie representing murder

everyone keeps skipping that and refuses to address that :ermm:

now, remove the murder one and say "hey, we should have never had this in the first place because it represents violence"

then things start to make a little more sense

hope this make some sense to some of you
if it doesnt i give up, you guys will just stick together as i expected

[Adrian Schneider]

Wow, maybe they made a mistake, give them a break. Macro was just doing what he thought was right. I didn't know the smiley existed, maybe he didn't either.

In all honesty, I don't see what the big deal is here...

[Jenta]

Wow, maybe they made a mistake, give them a break. Macro was just doing what he thought was right. I didn't know the smiley existed, maybe he didn't either.

In all honesty, I don't see what the big deal is here...

its not really, its just a simple smiley
and i think you nailed it "maybe they made a mistake"
thats all i wanted to bring to their attention

perhaps lighten up a bit...geez its just a smilie
dont go overboard trying to keep this place "family friendly"

[Boofo]

you miss the point
was a solution really called for?
remember, you have a smilie representing murder

everyone keeps skipping that and refuses to address that :ermm:

now, remove the murder one and say "hey, we should have never had this in the first place because it represents violence"

then things start to make a little more sense

hope this make some sense to some of you
if it doesnt i give up, you guys will just stick together as i expected

But YOU are missing the point. They are allowing it here, but in pm. So a compromise WAS offered, just not the one you wanted. ;)

And as far as sticking together goes, isn't that the way it is supposed to work to make the community run fair and eqaul to all members? ;)

[Adrian Schneider]

its not really, its just a simple smiley
and i think you nailed it "maybe they made a mistake"
thats all i wanted to bring to their attention

perhaps lighten up a bit...geez its just a smilie
dont go overboard trying to keep this place "family friendly"

Well Marco has a coffee problem, let's just blame it on that.

Oh well, anyway - just a tip: it's best not to approach things like this (starting a thread to get attention in a non-friendly fashion), as it only makes people angry.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Jenta,

There will always be discussion of what is on 1 side of the line, and what is on the other. The smilie in question is already under discussion with our staff at this time. I can't say what the final decission on that will be.

I still don't understand why you are making such a big issue out of a request that seems to me, to be a normal and friendly one to start with.
seeing as all you have done is give this a cursory glance based on your inaccurate comments, i now understand how this site is run
This site is not run by a single admin, but by a whole team of Admin's and moderators. The amount of time a single admin can put into an issue, will have no influence on how the site is run.

Erwin is giving you a friendly suggestion, you choose to ignore that and search for confrontation. I'd better not comment on that.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Well Marco has a coffee problem, let's just blame it on that.
And i still have, but i am trying to restrain myself, don't know how long i can do that however. :D :D

[Jenta]

Oh well, anyway - just a tip: it's best not to approach things like this (starting a thread to get attention in a non-friendly fashion), as it only makes people angry.

how is my thread unfriendly? i brought up the issue very politely.
and its not to seek attention to myself if thats what you are implying

it was to bring this matter up to the site admins for review

im not saying marco is even remotely close to this bad but if i am standing in a line at a store and the cashier is yapping on the phone and not scanning the items i am buying, u bet im going to politely ask her to put the phone down or go and have a word with the manager

i know most of you are volunteers but never forget that you are dealing with customers here

anyways, im done and will leave you with this

my original concern stands....lighten up a bit with the family friendly thing -
dont go overboard

i myself am offended by some guy here who has an avatar with jesus on the cross saying he died for me but whatever...im not gonna complain about it or other things i find offensive here and i sure as hell wont blame you for his avatar or other such things

[mholtum]

i know most of you are volunteers but never forget that you are dealing with customers here

As far as I know, www.vbulletin.org does not sell anything. :ermm:

[Chris M]

As far as I know, www.vbulletin.org (http://www.vbulletin.org/) does not sell anything. :ermm:

Only boobfoo but nobody wants to buy him:)

Satan

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Only boobfoo but nobody wants to buy him
Lol, poor Boobee, people always making jokes about him.

[Boofo]

That's the story of my life, Marco. :(

But I am fun to kick around! ;)

[Boofo]

As far as I know, www.vbulletin.org (http://www.vbulletin.org/) does not sell anything. :ermm:

Ahhhh, but we do represent Jelsoft, and they do. ;)

[Logikos]

No post was edited, no accounts where disabled, no threads where closed. Whats the big deal? He kindly asked you to keep it in the private messages. Talk about making a big deal over nothing...

[sabret00the]

a knife through the head is a bit more brutal than a shooting, you have to think of the sheer force and physical effort that goes into it, but who cares really i've never used either, just spamming i guess.

sabe for president :ninja:

saying that, what would really offend me would be a george bush smilie, please vb.org don't go there :nervous: :p

[m0nde]

may i request a political smilie of a forum troll, please?

- sid

[soniceffect]

i myself am offended by some guy here who has an avatar with jesus on the cross saying he died for me but whatever...im not gonna complain about it or other things i find offensive here and i sure as hell wont blame you for his avatar or other such things

I am not religious in any way shape or form, and even I know that jesus was supposed to have died for each and every person, so how you can find this offensive if beyond me....


Anyways, I like political discussions, call me a sadist but it`s fun LOL ... Moderators and admin WILL go over the top, members WILL moan, but these things whether you consider them to be over the top or not are done for a reason. Personally if my daughter saw a smiley blowing it`s brains out I wouldn`t think twice about it as it`s (as you said) just a smiley. However my fiance would not approve of it, and so I try not to let her see such things.

It is not the people who find things offensive toward there children that should come down to our level whatever that may be, but for us to respect the wishes of the people bringing those children up, and I do believe that in a slightely more subtle way, this is what was said in your thread.

[sabret00the]

I am not religious in any way shape or form, and even I know that jesus was supposed to have died for each and every person, so how you can find this offensive if beyond me....while not religious you're evidently of some sort of christian upground.

anyway i think it's ridiculous that this place is being run as family fun, this is a hacking community where you invalidate your legitimate products and modify them sometimes beyond recognition, the amount of crap we put up with like the whole no :blowmybrainsout: swear filters etc is just stupid, it needs to be realised that this is for the bigger kids

* sabret00the forgot the gist of what he was saying.

wouldn't it be kinda cool if some of the mods were visibly active again, even if only in the lounge? seriously from what i can make up through posting of recent all that's left is bob, dean, marco, colin*, and kirby, where's the other half? surely the status of mod is a reflection of your participation in the community rather than a popularity contest?

*i saw him post over at .com recently.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

wouldn't it be kinda cool if some of the mods were visibly active again, even if only in the lounge? seriously from what i can make up through posting of recent all that's left is bob, dean, marco, colin*, and kirby, where's the other half?Sometimes we can spend more time then other moments, due to other private issues that need to be attended to. That is why we have more then just a few moderators. It is not about the individual mods' but about the Team.
surely the status of mod is a reflection of your participation in the community rather than a popularity contest?If it was about popularity, i would never have accepted the job as moderator. It is not what you would call a sure way to get popular. :D

[nexialys]

can we get along now ?!

as usual, this kind of topic is going too far just because someone want to "be" the truth...

everyone is ok, nobody get hurt, and even, we made fun of Boffo (what's his username again?!)

[Gio~Logist]

Jenta,
I'm sure you approached this situation in a manner in which you thought was "professional and/or polite", however, marco has a point in what he is saying. I myself brought my license at the age of 13 and i am now 14, some people consider your request to be to graphic even for a 13 year old. However, you did make a valid point witht he icon they have here. To be honest, someone PMing you the smilie isn't to bad either. You still get the request and the possibility of someone meating your request. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Lets not all become un-professional and act uncivilized over a smilie.

:devious: :speechless: :rolleyes: :disappointed: :squareeyed: :o :nervous: :surprised: :tired: :ermm: :banana:

Gio

As far as I know, www.vbulletin.org does not sell anything. :ermm:


Alot of the staff and developers of vb are registered here and are in a higher group than members. Therefore, we are still customers to those people. Even so, vb.org is afiliated with vb.com as far as i know, therefore, making vb.com's customers vb.org's customers. The less customers vb.com has, the less members and customers vb.org has.

[sabret00the]

can we get along now ?!

as usual, this kind of topic is going too far just because someone want to "be" the truth...

everyone is ok, nobody get hurt, and even, we made fun of Boffo (what's his username again?!)

yay nexlysis is here, you should've been around for the thread earlier, i actually wished for your presence in there.

[nexialys]

yay nexlysis is here, you should've been around for the thread earlier, i actually wished for your presence in there.he he... hum.. just had to call, i'm never too far gone... just needed my license back... (i made a public call for donation, but none came in!)

and btw, wishing for my presence is a form sadism ?!

[Adrian Schneider]

yay nexlysis is here, you should've been around for the thread earlier, i actually wished for your presence in there.

Wouldn't you rather wish for something like ending world hunger? What would Alladin say...:(

--

Anyway, personally I think Jelsoft should get a new tagline / advertising scheme for vBulletin: "vBulletin, Fun for the Whole Family" and have kid-themed skin, a babysitting type chatroom thing, etc. It will be flawless! Invision, phpBB and the other competition boards will have no choice but to bow down. We might even get lucky and see some of their own kids in the babysitting room!

I never knew vBulletin was a family thing. IMO if people are mature enough to be hacking a board, they are mature enough to see a 16x16 image of a drawn head with a knife in it. Who knows, maybe they just think they are a 1337 hacker, and the smiley will give them nightmares and create smilyphobia and haunt them until the end of their days.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

What i really don't understand is that even though this has been in our rules for a long time, nobody ever bothered to comment on that. And now a lot of you act surprised like they didn't know (or agree) on this part of our rules.

Didn't you read the rules, or what was your motivation to accept them?

[tehste]

Hmmm... does anybody actually really read terms and conditions / rules? Or just click the accept checkbox / button...
While the original thing was funny (Where marco didn't realise the arrow/death smilie that is on vbulletin.org) - oh how i laughed - i think this thread has gone a lil trivial.

An animated smilie depicting suicide I wouldn't say was unsuitable for minors (Unless there was a huge amount of realism - smilies aren't real)

The original issue was a critiscism of the over-the-top censorship.

[Borgs8472]

Hmmm... does anybody actually really read terms and conditions / rules? Or just click the accept checkbox / button...
Is this a trick question? :/

http://www.wordforge.net/forum/images/smilies/hh.gifhttp://www.wordforge.net/forum/images/smilies/jerikoporn.gif

Smileys can be very political, especially those out to get the oppressive administation!

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/

(Joking!)

Damn I love my smileys... :)

[Kirk Y]

Perhaps in light of this thread someone should create a smilie holding a sign that says: You're a moron! ;)

[Jenta]

omg borgs, an irishman and an indian blowing up
/me hides his children

[EasyTarget]

better to err on the side of caution in my opinion.

[yessir]

Don't you guys have anything better to do with your time? Lame complaints.

"look at me, i am being censored, my rights are being trampled, this is injustice".

Step into real world of hunger, war and corruption. You'd think twice about wasting your time complaining about mistreatment over a smilie request. You might even grow up.

Marco, good job. Last time I checked, you are a mod. If people don't like it, they should complain to management, and stop trying to take their complaints public to the time wasting/day dreaming masses. I doubt these whiners express this much tolerance towards or take the scrutiny you have been subjected to from posters on their own forums.

[Andrew]

Perhaps in light of this thread someone should create a smilie holding a sign that says: You're a moron! ;)
How does this work ?

http://www.epicdesignz.com/images/moron_smilie.gif

[Jenta]

Marco, good job. Last time I checked, you are a mod. If people don't like it, they should complain to management, and stop trying to take their complaints public to the time wasting/day dreaming masses.

Umm, I posted this here for management. No need to hide this. :rolleyes:



I doubt these whiners express this much tolerance towards or take the scrutiny you have been subjected to from posters on their own forums.

Huge difference between a company forum and our car forums or whatever. Last time I checked, the $160 that I sent Jelfsoft includes the ability to use this forum!

And please stop the name calling.

[yessir]

Umm, I posted this here for management. No need to hide this. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I think you have done a brilliant job of forcing the moderators to defend themselves, the site and company policy and using up what I am sure is their valuable time to watch this thread.

A thread which is based around your need to have a personal set of morals or community conduct imposed upon everyone. Last time I checked, that was Jelsoft's job, not yours or mine. This is THEIR forum, not any of ours. I do not remember in my agreements anywhere stating that $160 entitled me to a stake in how the company was run.

Huge difference between a company forum and our car forums or whatever. Last time I checked, the $160 that I sent Jelfsoft includes the ability to use this forum!

No difference at all. It is a forum community. Governed by the site owners and their interpretation of the rules. Are you going to tell me that you do not make ANY money from your car forums?

Your licensed status allows you to receive hack support and view/download code/contributions. Again, I don't see where in the user agreement at either .com or .org someone has granted you a stake in forum social policy. In fact, I do not recall forum membership in the licence agreement, only the requirement at these sites that you are vB licenced in order to fully participate.

And please stop the name calling.

If the shoe fits...

[Erwin]

Alright, I'm closing this thread - not because I want to "censor" anything, but because the OP's question and issues have been looked at and answered to the best of our ability, and this thread is turning out to become a possible "flame-fest". :)

Let us all "lighten up" as per the OP suggestion and move on. Life's too short to fight over posts in a forum. :)