Who Are The Best vB Designers

[Brinnie]

All I know of is Extreme Pixels. Are they're any others?

[Chris M]

DiretPixel - http://www.directpixel.com/
Colicab (Dave) - http://www.artorg.co.uk/
Mattone - http://www.vbdesign.co.uk/

Just to name a few off the top of my head :)

Satan

[Brinnie]

wow... Look at this:

http://www.vbmechanic.com/vbulletin-skins/index.php?styleid=9

To bad it doesn't scroll very well. :p (pun intended)

[bigcurt]

Yea, he made good skins but he isnt around anymore, another good one is vBCore

www.vbcore.com
www.cinvin.com ( kw802)
www.transversestyles.com
www.aaronortega.com

There are TONS

[Brinnie]

Yea, he made good skins but he isnt around anymore, another good one is vBCore

www.vbcore.com
www.cinvin.com ( kw802)
www.transversestyles.com
www.aaronortega.com

There are TONS


Yea, but not for vb 3.5 :(

[Tony G]

Don't expect many to have skins for vB 3.5, as it still is in its beta stages.

[yoyoyoyo]

www.aaronortega.com (http://www.aaronortega.com)
he seems to have moved on...

[bigcurt]

hmm...idk is site is still up www.thekryptonian.com

And about the designs, I thought you were wondering about custom designers, I didnt know you wanted pre made templates..yea exp is the only one I have seen with 3.5 so far.

[Paul M]

Yea, but not for vb 3.5 :(You're not going to find many for this as the templates are still changing with each beta/rc release.

[sketch42]

<a href="http://www.vbdesigns.de/forum.php" target="_blank">http://www.vbdesigns.de/forum.php</a>

[Blindchild02]

www.blind-fate.com :p

[sketch42]

www.blind-fate.com :p

The page cannot be displayed

[Stachel]

<a href="https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=91378" target="_blank">https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=91378</a>

My related topic

[ReZ]

I recommend: Domino FX Design (http://www.dominofxdesign.com/) they designed my vB for an excellent price and provided much support afterwards. Email them for a price quote.

[artonex]

im a vb skinner also, soon ill be opening my own site :)

[b6gm6n]

I'm lagging behind in the skin race... just a noob with a dream...maybe one day! - https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=92021

[Sam FT]

I won't go to vbcore....because all he has done to me is ripped me off. I paid him $750 and all he has done is stringed me along keeps telling me that everything is fine. And I have seen a piece of my design, he keeps coming up with "I am having surgery" or whatever excuse he has for that week. So I will have to put back the design work a few weeks.

So my warning to everyone is stay away from vbcore because you will get screwed in the end.

vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing the owner of vBCore.

[AN-net]

I won't go to vbcore....because all he has done to me is ripped me off. I paid him $750 and all he has done is stringed me along keeps telling me that everything is fine. And I have seen a piece of my design, he keeps coming up with "I am having surgery" or whatever excuse he has for that week. So I will have to put back the design work a few weeks.

So my warning to everyone is stay away from vbcore because you will get screwed in the end.

Plus he is trying to sell the website and screw his customers... see here

http://www.dnforum.com/f48/large-com...om-102923.html (http://www.dnforum.com/f48/large-community-high-income-vbcore-com-102923.html)
well he did have surgery if you read his website lately>_>

[Sam FT]

well he did have surgery if you read his website lately>_>

Well that is what he keeps saying...he told me keeps telling me he has it done. I paid him the money back in April...so he has screwed me.

vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

[Guest190829]

I won't go to vbcore....because all he has done to me is ripped me off. I paid him $750 and all he has done is stringed me along keeps telling me that everything is fine. And I have seen a piece of my design, he keeps coming up with "I am having surgery" or whatever excuse he has for that week. So I will have to put back the design work a few weeks.

So my warning to everyone is stay away from vbcore because you will get screwed in the end.

Plus he is trying to sell the website and screw his customers... see here

http://www.dnforum.com/f48/large-com...om-102923.html (http://www.dnforum.com/f48/large-community-high-income-vbcore-com-102923.html)


You should really get your facts straight before you start accusing someone. vB Core apoligized on vbcore.com about having surgery, and told us that it was out of his hands. That happens sometimes, it isn't he fault.

And also he isn't screwing his customers about selling his site. We talked over aim about two weeks ago thinking about domain names so he could reopen as soon as possible for the customers benefit.

And no, I do not work for him, and I'm not affiliated with. I think his work is outstanding, and I will go to him for future design projects. :)

[smacklan]

I paid him $750
Did you pay him upfront?...Personally I don't charge anything until the mockups are approved, then only 50% down, balance upon completion and installation. His work is very good...sounds like RL is causing him problems :(

[kbothe]

Did you pay him upfront?...Personally I don't charge anything until the mockups are approved, then only 50% down, balance upon completion and installation. His work is very good...sounds like RL is causing him problems :(
well look at your skins, nobody should pay for one.

[Sam FT]

You should really get your facts straight before you start accusing someone. vB Core apoligized on vbcore.com about having surgery, and told us that it was out of his hands. That happens sometimes, it isn't he fault.

And also he isn't screwing his customers about selling his site. We talked over aim about two weeks ago thinking about domain names so he could reopen as soon as possible for the customers benefit.

And no, I do not work for him, and I'm not affiliated with. I think his work is outstanding, and I will go to him for future design projects. :)

I have my facts straight...I gave him money back in April...this August. He didn't have his surgery until June. So he had 2 months to finish my custom design. I didn't ask for anything over the top just a simple design. His surgeries were a broken ankle from basketball and dential work. But that is your opinion to go to him I respect that. All I am just stating here is the fact that I am dissatisfied customer and to be caustious.

Yes I paid for 2/3 of the money up front which is my own fault for agreeing to it.

vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

[smacklan]

well look at your skins, nobody should pay for one.
LOL!...I love you too.

[b6gm6n]

fcuk me! $750? are you joking? - $50 was my highest price, why oh why do these dudes charge so much is beyond me... well, i'll be chargin more now ;)

-b6

[Blindchild02]

i do custom skinning, and i charge around $300 - $500 for mine.
i dont see how vbcore is charging 750... lol

[bigcurt]

I am sorry, I think any price for a custom skin over 200 bux is RIDICULOUS, I know how much work goes into a skin, I have seen people make them..just make a few photoshop images and most of it is repeat of the same image..no big deal..I could make one if I was good at photoshop..over 200 bux is ridiculous, I believe. It isnt like you are integrating a CMPS onto a page. I love some work I have seen, and myself am looking for a custom design..but I will not be paying over 200 bux and I dont see why others do.

~Curt

[Blindchild02]

200 dollars is quite cheap, its not only the time put into designing, and coding, but having full rights to a design is also usually included in the money,
its like buying an item that was only made ONCE
and for you.
i dont think i can explain it any better, but i think 300 - 500 is a fair price.

some design companies charge over $1000 per skin

[smacklan]

I agree with BlindChild, there is alot more to it than just a few PS images, and it's unique. It's like anything, you have to shop around and find the service and price that suits you best.

[bigcurt]

Sorry, I just dont agree. Don't get me wrong, I love custom skins, ect..but considering how most people make skins, it is ridculous..you make a few PS images custom for your site..ok. But then all you do is sort of repeat the same image at different widths at different places....if you are good at PS..you can basically do a custom skin, heck, even most XML files are just a universal thing..just change the variables around IE: header_small or whatever..and your done..and getting paid 400-500 bux...that is ludicrous ( dont think I spelled that right :p )


Dont get me wrong, I totally agree that it isnt easy, but I have never seen just a custom forum skin worth that much money..never



~Curt

[KTBleeding]

Most skins I make on average take 20 - 30 hours. There's a lot more that goes into them than just images. (making them xhtml, completely revamping the look and feel while still keeping certain functions, etc.)

While I've never asked for 200 dollars for a skin.. I wouldn't argue that they're not worth that much considering most of the time spent on them. Granted, most skin designers don't pay attention to most of the things I usually do, but oh well.

[Adrian Schneider]

Most skins I make on average take 20 - 30 hours. There's a lot more that goes into them than just images. (making them xhtml, completely revamping the look and feel while still keeping certain functions, etc.)

While I've never asked for 200 dollars for a skin.. I wouldn't argue that they're not worth that much considering most of the time spent on them. Granted, most skin designers don't pay attention to most of the things I usually do, but oh well.

and if you do the math, 200/25 = 8... that's not much. Think of people who do this professionally and need to make an income. :)

500$/25 hours still isn't that much IMO, (time wise, it may seem like a lot when asking them to do it.)

Anyway, just remember that it is ART, it is very hard to put a price on art.

[smacklan]

You are right SirAdrian...it's not much per hour when you break it down. The real money is in skins that aren't unique and are for sale to anyone.

[bigcurt]

You keep on saying that, but either way you make the skins that you have for paid, say you charge 20 bux for a skin to download, but anyone else can download it..like extremepixels or something, But you charge 500 bux for a skin designed for your site...I just dont see how people actually pay that much for a skin..most the templates you see that come with a skin ( the xml file I suppose ) are universal..they take the same XML file they get anywhere and modify it just for that skin there making. Now every person is different, but I know PLENTY who do that..they just use the same thing over and over by changing around the file a little bit and making a few PS images..no big deal...now smacklan I am not saying your work is bad, as a matter of a fact I really like your work..BUT, it is ridiculous IMO to charge that ammount of money for something like that.

Sorry if some of my words arent in the best grammer, but I am very tired

~Curt

[b6gm6n]

i would design the skin, install it for the customer and provide support for life for $500 :) - It's a competative market out there, some ppl will pay, others will not, but you have to be fair to yourself as well as the customer.

-b6

[Adrian Schneider]

You shouldn't be making more at McDonalds than as a Designer... think about that. :)

[bigcurt]

Why not? McDonalds you do more work xD.

~Curt

[smacklan]

Why not? McDonalds you do more work xD.



~Curt
LOL...now thats probably true! It's hard to pinpoint it down alot of times...I find it to be a negotiating process. I have done skins for as little as $75 and really lost my hieny on it. I do think $750 is outrageous, but that's just me. To take the basic CSS and change it a little, throw some images in isn't worth a whole lot I agree. But the one's that are very graphically intense and have some really challenging CSS do take a lot of time. BTW, thanks for the kind words about my work...we all like to be appreciated!

[MRGTB]

Yea, he made good skins but he isnt around anymore, another good one is vBCore

www.vbcore.com
www.cinvin.com ( kw802)
www.transversestyles.com
www.aaronortega.com

There are TONS

Yeh, I love the look of vbcore default site skin, looks like they have kind of given there vb3 a new vb2 default look using the purple colour. Looks quite classy.

I just like how they seem to have carried vb2 over to vb3 theme wise based on colours. Nice!!!

[Blindchild02]

www.blind-fate.com/testboard :p

[Mone']

Sorry, I just dont agree. Don't get me wrong, I love custom skins, ect..but considering how most people make skins, it is ridculous..you make a few PS images custom for your site..ok. But then all you do is sort of repeat the same image at different widths at different places....if you are good at PS..you can basically do a custom skin, heck, even most XML files are just a universal thing..just change the variables around IE: header_small or whatever..and your done..and getting paid 400-500 bux...that is ludicrous ( dont think I spelled that right :p )


Dont get me wrong, I totally agree that it isnt easy, but I have never seen just a custom forum skin worth that much money..never



~Curt


Hi,
I couldn't resist putting my 2c into this thread after reading some of the comments.

A $500 and over skin is really not that much when you think the amount of work you have to put into it to create a original skin.

For starter NOT EVERY PSD are the same, not every xhtml are based on the same layout, come on how can you say that?

Many hrs goes into designing, coding and talking/emailing the client back and forward to make sure that he is pleased with what he is paying you for.

Just to show you a couple of examples:

theMouthPiece.com (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/?styleid=4)

Many and many hrs where put into that skin from all the custom coding to the actual design and layout, not to mention the postbit.

Not custom work but a template:

vBStyles.com - Aria Skin (http://www.vbstyles.com/forum/?styleid=99)

I don't think it's just a matter of changing the same images around as you think :rolleyes:


And if you can make more Money working at Mc Donald that by working as a web developer, perhaps you should start thinking why your work is not selling.....if you know what i mean.




Back on thread topic , there is no best designer, there are so many talented people out there that are not getting recognition or simply are not interested in sharing they're work and many great site that are simply not doing any custom work for some reason or another one.

Make sure to check up the person you are going to get to do a skin for you, reference and previous work before you even contact them for a job.

Make sure to sign a written contract before you pay any money so that you can protect your investment and time...better be careful than sorry.

Take care

Mone'

[Blindchild02]

mone's the man :p

[MRGTB]

I agree with you to a certain degree Mone'

But what you have to remember is a skin is only worth the same as what other talented designers are selling there's for with the same quality and standard of work.

For example if your selling a car, you check the autotrader first to see what others are selling the same car for with same condition and millage. In other words prices are dictated by the overall going rate. Seeing as you can buy top class skins for £25, I have to agree that $500 (£400) is rather expensive just for a skin when you concider the going average rate for the best skins out there is around £75 pounds. So my question would be.

If I see a skin for £75 that looks just as good as one for £400. What makes that skin worth £325 extra. Because skins that cost £75 still can offer a back-up service just the same as a £400 skin.

[Andrew]

For example if your selling a car, you check the autotrader first to see what others are selling the same car for with same condition and millage. In other words prices are dictated by the overall going rate. Seeing as you can buy top class skins for ?25, I have to agree that $500 (?400) is rather expensive just for a skin when you concider the going average rate for the best skins out there is around ?75 pounds. So my question would be.

If I see a skin for ?75 that looks just as good as one for ?400. What makes that skin worth ?325 extra. Because skins that cost ?75 still can offer a back-up service just the same as a ?400 skin.
When you pay for a custom skin you not only pay for the skin itself but for the ownership of the skin itself. Yes you can find "top class" skins for ?25 but when you purchase a skin like that from vBStyles or ExtremePixels you only get the rights to use it as does anyone else who wants to use that skin. The main selling point of a custom skin is that it's truely custom as you own the full rights to use and distribute it.

[MRGTB]

Good point, but the question still stands. Why pay £400 to own the rights to a skin when you can pay £70-100 for the same standard of work and also own the rights for a fraction of the price.

The main point I was trying to get across is a skin is only worth what the going rate is. Just the same as anything else you sell (were not paying for a brand name here). Like you would with jeans or shoes etc. And $500 is most certanly not the average going rate going of the internet as a whole.

That's all I'm trying to say. Yea, I supose big companies will pay that kind of money. But if you trying to target the average internet user like myself to buy them. You need to match the going rates of other top class skinners. Otherwise your just going to lose buisness to them.

[Andrew]

Good point, but the question still stands. Why pay ?400 to own the rights to a skin when you can pay ?70-100 for the same standard of work and also own the rights for a fraction of the price.

The main point I was trying to get across is a skin is only worth what the going rate is. Just the same as anything else you sell (were not paying for a brand name here). Like you would with jeans or shoes etc. And $500 is most certanly not the average going rate going of the internet as a whole.

That's all I'm trying to say. Yea, I supose big companies will pay that kind of money. But if you trying to target the average internet user like myself to buy them. You need to match the going rates of other top class skinners. Otherwise your just going to lose buisness to them.

That's why people that don't care about who else is using it use vBStyles and ExtremePixles and those who want something unique and one of a kind come to people like myself and many of the other designers here. For a one off unique skin though $500 is not much at all - I've spoken with clients of mine who had contacted larger designers and we're being faced with $1000-$2500 pricetags on a one off design.

[smacklan]

This is a very interesting thread! Lots of good thoughts and advice being posted. Mone' gives some very good advice. There are more people making great skins than I think most know about. vBStyles and Extremepixels have really nice "off the rack" styles for what they charge for them as does Transverse and Cinvin and vBCore. I think most people don't have the extreme dollars to invest in something really unique but would like to have that. I think we all agree that the vB platform is the best forum product out there, but what I would really like to see is something totally radical..."thinking out of the box" type application of a style...I'm not sure I know how to describe it better, but even the best custom styles I've seen still look like vB (not that thats bad, but does anyone else know what I mean?). I suppose unless things were completely redesigned as far as vB goes thats not possible...anyway...sorry to ramble :p

[bigcurt]

Well, see one thing with me, is it all depends on who makes the skin/and the quality of it. Now if I see a totally custom skin, with everything custom, buttons, post buttons, headers, navbar buttons...the whole KABLAM..then ofcourse the author deserves more..BUT..and I do say BUT..alot of the skin makers I have seen, just take the same psd image and multiply it at different widths...or just take the same button they already have and make them a different color..or something of that sort. And tell me, all the coding that is in the skins with the XML file, ect. Correct me if I am wrong cause I very well could be, because I know exactly 0% about making a skin other than what I have heard/seen..but do most coders not just take another XML file already made, like say the vBulletin XML skin file, or something of that sort..and just use it as a standard for theres? They just switch around the variables so instead of being v3_header or something like that it is skinname_header, ect..am I right? I could be wrong but I dont believe I am, but I totally agree with you smacklan, it all depends on the coder/designer that makes it..if they make everything XHTML transitional..there is a little plus to em also..but some dont..and they still charge the OUTRAGEOUS price they do.

~Curt

[Adrian Schneider]

People really shouldn't use XHTML compliancy as an excuse to raise the price, once you learn the few (yes few) differences between HTML and XHTML, it is jsut as easy, and takes no more time (assuming you know what your doing, and if you don't, you shouldn't be doing this!)

I find it rude to argue about someones price, if they feel that is what it's worth and you disagree, just look elsewhere. Even if they are totally wrong, let them find out themself, they won't get any customers. If they do, they must be doing something right, and you shouldn't be criticizing them. Although I'm not a designer, I would say it would really hurt for someone to say my work isn't worth what I am asking.

Anyway, give the designers some slack, but don't let them rip you off.

A great alternative is contests for forum skins on your board! It's not that hard to convert a PSD to a template, and IMO it has worked out great at my board (3-4 times).

[KTBleeding]

People really shouldn't use XHTML compliancy as an excuse to raise the price, once you learn the few (yes few) differences between HTML and XHTML, it is jsut as easy, and takes no more time (assuming you know what your doing, and if you don't, you shouldn't be doing this!)
To be honest, I coded in XHTML before I even knew what it was. Just cause I liked having clean looking code. :speechless:

[bigcurt]

People really shouldn't use XHTML compliancy as an excuse to raise the price, once you learn the few (yes few) differences between HTML and XHTML, it is jsut as easy, and takes no more time (assuming you know what your doing, and if you don't, you shouldn't be doing this!)

I find it rude to argue about someones price, if they feel that is what it's worth and you disagree, just look elsewhere. Even if they are totally wrong, let them find out themself, they won't get any customers. If they do, they must be doing something right, and you shouldn't be criticizing them. Although I'm not a designer, I would say it would really hurt for someone to say my work isn't worth what I am asking.

Anyway, give the designers some slack, but don't let them rip you off.

A great alternative is contests for forum skins on your board! It's not that hard to convert a PSD to a template, and IMO it has worked out great at my board (3-4 times).


Thats why, I havent said any names as in talking-bad about anyone, I love all custom skins :p..especially for someone who doesnt have one. I am just expressing my personal opinion, like I have the right to do :p.



~Curt

[TexasAtvs]

I also paid 1800.00 up front for a custom design through vbcore which was a 60% down payment for a custom design. I stated I wanted the best design w/ flash possible. I have had a hard time with communication with him. It has now been almost 5 months and the rough draft has been completed for the most part but nothing further is being done. There is always an excuse why he hasn't been able to do anything else. If i ask for certain changes especially after paying that amount of cash he refuses to make any further changes. I have asked him to code the design what he has so far a month ago and I have still yet to see any work or design being coded.

I felt good when I spoke with him in the beginning about the design work, especially b/c he had a good record with all the work he has done, but this has been a horrible experience for me. Especially after already having a bad experience with another designer dameon with insidethepixel.com

I really hope he can correct himself and these issues with his customers. I think he would have good potential if he would learn to do things in a timely manner and respond to emails more than once a week or two weeks.

Sorry for anyone else that has had a bad experience with him, I understand what u are going through.

[Sam FT]

I also paid 1800.00 up front for a custom design through vbcore which was a 60% down payment for a custom design. I stated I wanted the best design w/ flash possible. I have had a hard time with communication with him. It has now been almost 5 months and the rough draft has been completed for the most part but nothing further is being done. There is always an excuse why he hasn't been able to do anything else. If i ask for certain changes especially after paying that amount of cash he refuses to make any further changes. I have asked him to code the design what he has so far a month ago and I have still yet to see any work or design being coded.

I felt good when I spoke with him in the beginning about the design work, especially b/c he had a good record with all the work he has done, but this has been a horrible experience for me. Especially after already having a bad experience with another designer dameon with insidethepixel.com

I really hope he can correct himself and these issues with his customers. I think he would have good potential if he would learn to do things in a timely manner and respond to emails more than once a week or two weeks.

Sorry for anyone else that has had a bad experience with him, I understand what u are going through.

I know exactly what you are going through. I had the same bad expericene probability with Dameon White who owned/ran insidethepixel.com. But yeah everything you had said almost word for word the same experience. Kolby is the guy who owns vbcore and yes he has the potential if he would do things in a timely manner. I doubt anything is going to change.

And by the way if you decide to get a refund he won't give it to you. I asked for one and this is what I told from him. When you submit a request a quote for a design and pay any money that you are agreeing to the Terms Of Services on his site which states.

"Once the client has sent any money, there will be no refunds at all. If the customer fails to communicate with vBCore after 2 weeks the contract is considered VOID, vBCore will go out of our way to try and get in touch with you, if you fail to respond the contract is considered VOID and there will be no refunds. All clients, have the right to request a deadline. However, we will give you an approximate or estimated time before completion. If for any reason, the time has passed or can not be met, you will be notified, however there will be no refunds, or money back. We do not offer any guarantees on completions or deadlines. "

So basically two things are going to happen. One you get the design but alot of time has gone by or two you won't get a design and no refund because you agreed to his TOS and/or posted a message stating how unhappy you are. This is what happend to me so...

So I think the more and more people come out and tell everybody else what your experience the better chance we help other people from losing money.


vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

[b6gm6n]

Bloody Nora...some of the prices you fellas pay...

Here have a design i completed last night
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=97196

Price : FREE

[MRGTB]

Bloody Nora...some of the prices you fellas pay...

Here have a design i completed last night
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=97196

Price : FREE

Very nice mate, you should sell them for cheap ?5 or ?10 for quick cash. There well worth it.

[vBTotal]

Sam, you don't learn, yet everyday I get emails from you saying that you love the skin and you cant wait for it to be completed, and that you are very happy with everything that is going on, but you continue to post here talking trash. Very interesting.

Brandon (TexasATV) I have explained to you the current situation and you replied to the email saying "Ok no problem, be safe and I would like to hear from you soon" I emailed you and I have had not heard from you until today VIA this post. Your skin design is complete, and is now in the coding phase, which is about 95% done being coded. Again, you failed to understand that you wanted this for vB3.5 and that I wasnt going to start to code it until Gold was released (It was released a couple of days ago) and your skin is already almost done.

For those of you interested in seeing the skin, it can be viewed here http://vbcore.com/images/txatv3-5-5.jpg. That is the static preview without flash and what not.

-vBCore

[smacklan]

I can't speak to others experiences, only my own with vBCore. I have done alot of business with him and have had nothing but great communication and results! I'm a very happy customer. Just my personal perspective.

[MRGTB]

Sam, you don't learn, yet everyday I get emails from you saying that you love the skin and you cant wait for it to be completed, and that you are very happy with everything that is going on, but you continue to post here talking trash. Very interesting.

Brandon (TexasATV) I have explained to you the current situation and you replied to the email saying "Ok no problem, be safe and I would like to hear from you soon" I emailed you and I have had not heard from you until today VIA this post. Your skin design is complete, and is now in the coding phase, which is about 95% done being coded. Again, you failed to understand that you wanted this for vB3.5 and that I wasnt going to start to code it until Gold was released (It was released a couple of days ago) and your skin is already almost done.

For those of you interested in seeing the skin, it can be viewed here http://vbcore.com/images/txatv3-5-5.jpg. That is the static preview without flash and what not.

-vBCore

Well he a good point also, for the sake of the customer it was better that he gave it him for vB GOLD and not an RC version (just incase). Ah, these these young ones need to be more patient. :banana:

[Sam FT]

Sam, you don't learn, yet everyday I get emails from you saying that you love the skin and you cant wait for it to be completed, and that you are very happy with everything that is going on, but you continue to post here talking trash. Very interesting.

Brandon (TexasATV) I have explained to you the current situation and you replied to the email saying "Ok no problem, be safe and I would like to hear from you soon" I emailed you and I have had not heard from you until today VIA this post. Your skin design is complete, and is now in the coding phase, which is about 95% done being coded. Again, you failed to understand that you wanted this for vB3.5 and that I wasnt going to start to code it until Gold was released (It was released a couple of days ago) and your skin is already almost done.

For those of you interested in seeing the skin, it can be viewed here http://vbcore.com/images/txatv3-5-5.jpg. That is the static preview without flash and what not.

-vBCore

That is a lie I haven't sent you emails....I can't remember the last time I even did. Second off I am not happy with the whole process I have been pissed off about everything not the design but the whole process of treating me like a second class citizen. Do like the skin but since it isn't complete again I don't like the process of how I am being treated.

Well he a good point also, for the sake of the customer it was better that he gave it him for vB GOLD and not an RC version (just incase). Ah, these these young ones need to be more patient. :banana:

First sorry for being blunt but you don't dog in this race about telling me to be patience. Because when 6 months roll by and nothing seems to be progressing after you pay some big bucks. So please come to talk to me only after you have walked in my shoes. That is just my opinion nor I wanting to start a fight here just a disagreement in opinions. But sometime you have to bring it to the public to get something resolve or get people opinion on where to go from here.


vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

[Vizionz]

well look at your skins, nobody should pay for one.
dude your idiot his styles are nice i dont know about some crazy ass prices for them but there definetly good quality

[smacklan]

dude your idiot his styles are nice i dont know about some crazy ass prices for them but there definetly good quality
Thanks!...but I'm not sure what you mean about the price?

[MRGTB]

First sorry for being blunt but you don't dog in this race about telling me to be patience. Because when 6 months roll by and nothing seems to be progressing after you pay some big bucks. So please come to talk to me only after you have walked in my shoes. That is just my opinion nor I wanting to start a fight here just a disagreement in opinions. But sometime you have to bring it to the public to get something resolve or get people opinion on where to go from here.

Mmmmm, that is a long time to be patient. I didn't realise you have been waiting that long. :rolleyes:

[Sam FT]

Mmmmm, that is a long time to be patient. I didn't realise you have been waiting that long. :rolleyes:

And thanks for the sarcasm...with the rolls eyes :down: .


vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

[dethfire]

I'm currently getting a skin done by vbcore. So far I've been extremely impressed with his skills. I think he's just taken on more projects than he can do within good time.

[Xtrato]

<a href="http://xtrato.com/main/forums/" target="_blank">http://xtrato.com/main/forums/</a> My Site :speechless:

[bigcurt]

You have VERY nice skins, and I would even be interested in buying one..but not for 100-150 bucks for one that can be resold 0_o.

~Curt

[Xtrato]

You have VERY nice skins, and I would even be interested in buying one..but not for 100-150 bucks for one that can be resold 0_o.



~Curt


Yeah well those are for Php Nuke ... which come with so many addons, and images...

You have main design : Forum design : table Designs : Icons : Mp3 Player : Custom Flash Shoutbox : Flash Navigation menu : Splash Pages : Extreme Detail ...

Most of which are controlable trough administration...

And so much more..

I can do 3-4 vB skins in the time it takes me to create a Full Packed Php-Nuke Design.

So basically.... You honestly get for what you pay for ...

But you will see my new work In www.vbdesigners.com

not just designs ... Xtrato Designs ;)

[grains]

++++ paying more than $200 for a skin.....*slams door*

*walks back in* ESPECIALLY if it's resold....*slams door again*

[MRGTB]

And thanks for the sarcasm...with the rolls eyes :down: .


vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

Sorry Sam, I was just kidding before with the rolling eyes, I do think you've waited long enough. And I've also read too many other threads now since were this guy is charging the earth, taking people for a much as he possibly can then ripping them off.

[CAMS]

isit just me or do most places that sell skins buy the designs from a designer, code them then resell them? dont see many that actualy do ther own designs?

i know one persons designs that crop up on nearly every vbstyles site i visit..

anyway ill add ma site link to the list of sites that sell vb styles

http://www.2evolve.org

[MRGTB]

isit just me or do most places that sell skins buy the designs from a designer, code them then resell them? dont see many that actualy do ther own designs?

i know one persons designs that crop up on nearly every vbstyles site i visit..

anyway ill add ma site link to the list of sites that sell vb styles

http://www.2evolve.org


No your not on your own, I've also seen and even read a thread elsewhere were I know a person bought 3 skins from a designer (one called Plastic) and then setup a skin site selling them after he purchased the full rights from the creator of them. I've also seen some vbskin sites selling the odd same skin on multiple sites all acting as though it theres. :squareeyed:

So I would guess the same person either owns multiple skin sites under different names acting as though there individual sites, or maybe some skins are being sold on comission bases.

[smacklan]

anyway ill add ma site link to the list of sites that sell vb styles

Nice work!...good luck with your site :)

[vietfancy]

I think $750 per skin in an ok price, I'd pay that much $$ to have my forum unique from the rest.

.... Dear Lord...
it took me more than a week and i haven't done my new skin yet...

arggggg

[CAMS]

i sell mine for $350 max price.. so far tho ive sold all them for about $300 and under

dont realy have a fixed price.. as some styles take less time and work than others to get done so by it taken up less of ur time and being simpler todo its only rite to charge less for it.

$700 is abit steep for a vbulletin style..

[Hellcat]

$700 is abit steep for a vbulletin style..
Indeed!
Even for an exclusive one, made by specific request that's way overpriced IMHO.
However, noone is forced to buy a style for that ammount ;)

I just finished an exclusive style for someone who is pretty happy with it.
Went for under $300.

I enjoy making vB styles and I think my styles are not bad - even though I do have to raise my GFX skills some more....
Design, all GFX and the template "coding" of course is all done by me and myself. No third party involved.
I'm also thinking about walking more into the "making vB styles" thing, but there are soooooo many sites already selling styles....


My 2ct for this :)

[MRGTB]

There are a lot of sites constantly setting up with the intentions of making money from vB Styles. How many of them are actually successfull overall in selling there skins on a regular bases I'd be interested to know (apart from the obvious well known skin sites that produce top quality styles thats been around for ages). As it quite obvious there selling them OK.

But I agree, even I thought about jumping on the band wagon so to speak at one point after reading people saying they will pay $300 and $600 for a skin LOL. Hell why not, I'm all for making money which every way it comes!

But I don't really have the time to sit there all day creating skins and then having to provide a backup service well, which they would expect at $300 a pop. And skins do usually mess up sometimes when a new vB version is released. Plus you get FREE skins released here all the time, so your work I would image would have to be of a very high quality to temp people to buy them, when they can come here and get free ones.

[Hellcat]

Well I think the "problem" with free styles or the re-selling ones for $29 and such is that you'll find them on many boards.
Some folks want exclusive ones, that you'll never find anywhere else. And they are supposed to be good quallity as well.

So there's a market there.... but all those style sites have to split up that market....

[Krumbz]

<a href="http://www.vbcore.com" target="_blank">http://www.vbcore.com</a> They make some decent designs.

[Smiry Kin's]

damn, i no some one that charge 70usd n i thought that took the piss.. lol

[CAMS]

http://www.vbcore.com They make some decent designs.

correction he "buys" decent skins and then resells them.. i speak to the person whos sold alot of his work to that site.

There are a lot of sites constantly setting up with the intentions of making money from vB Styles. How many of them are actually successfull overall in selling there skins on a regular bases I'd be interested to know (apart from the obvious well known skin sites that produce top quality styles thats been around for ages). As it quite obvious there selling them OK.

But I agree, even I thought about jumping on the band wagon so to speak at one point after reading people saying they will pay $300 and $600 for a skin LOL. Hell why not, I'm all for making money which every way it comes!

But I don't really have the time to sit there all day creating skins and then having to provide a backup service well, which they would expect at $300 a pop. And skins do usually mess up sometimes when a new vB version is released. Plus you get FREE skins released here all the time, so your work I would image would have to be of a very high quality to temp people to buy them, when they can come here and get free ones.


yeah i tryed that... started to sell styles for ?10 a pop... but relised it wasnt picking up and had more pms,emails asking for custom work instead.. so now i just do custom styles and thers not a day goes by that someone doesnt email/pm me asking for info on it or wanting a quote..

so am guesing more peeps want custom styles only they will have than a style thats resold.

[MRGTB]

correction he "buys" decent skins and then resells them.. i speak to the person whos sold alot of his work to that site.




yeah i tryed that... started to sell styles for ?10 a pop... but relised it wasnt picking up and had more pms,emails asking for custom work instead.. so now i just do custom styles and thers not a day goes by that someone doesnt email/pm me asking for info on it or wanting a quote..

so am guesing more peeps want custom styles only they will have than a style thats resold.

I'm quite suprised that you wasn't shifting skins at ?10 pop. Did you have quite a large selection of skins to choose from at that price. Or just the odd 2 or 4 to choose from? I'm wondering how large your list of skins was for ?10?

As I would have though if you'd build up a pretty large collection of cheap skins for fast turn over, maybe 40-50. You should have done quite well on sales.

[smacklan]

It just depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about it. My experience is there is a good market for both. Whatever you do as a business, you have to be prepared to provide support after the sale...that is the key to success.

[MRGTB]

It just depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about it. My experience is there is a good market for both. Whatever you do as a business, you have to be prepared to provide support after the sale...that is the key to success.

But I see that your site is selling two skins that vBCore are advertising they created called ATX and 360 for you site. So would I be right in saying that some skins your selling you did not create though?

And your doing like other site, selling skins created by other people like vBCore were you buy the rights to re-sell them.

EDIT:

Sorry I take that back. The ATX skin is being sold both on your site and vBCore

[smacklan]

I bought full rights from vbcore to several designs. He doesn't own rights to them to sell them any longer. You would be correct in your assumption. I am like several of the large skin sites in that I employ designers and coders to come up with my products. There are plenty of freelancers and custom skin makers and they fill a good market need and persue what they enjoy I suspect. The large resell skin sites like mine are a business, approaching the market differently than custom designers.

[DirectPixel]

There are a lot of sites constantly setting up with the intentions of making money from vB Styles. How many of them are actually successfull overall in selling there skins on a regular bases I'd be interested to know (apart from the obvious well known skin sites that produce top quality styles thats been around for ages). As it quite obvious there selling them OK.

But I agree, even I thought about jumping on the band wagon so to speak at one point after reading people saying they will pay $300 and $600 for a skin LOL. Hell why not, I'm all for making money which every way it comes!

But I don't really have the time to sit there all day creating skins and then having to provide a backup service well, which they would expect at $300 a pop. And skins do usually mess up sometimes when a new vB version is released. Plus you get FREE skins released here all the time, so your work I would image would have to be of a very high quality to temp people to buy them, when they can come here and get free ones.

I hope I'm not being too abrupt by jumping in here. Just thought I'd like to share my experiences with vBulletin skins. :)

First off, thanks to Chris M. for listing me first. :p

Anyways, in the long run, from my experience, providing per-client custom solutions has generated far more income than pre-made skin sales. With that said, the work-to-money-earned ratio for pre-made skin sales is very nice and is a great source of (relatively) passive income.

I've tested the waters with selling made-for-mass-consumption styles a few times with a few skins over the past two years. It seems to me that while it may be lots of fun waking up to a hundred PayPal payments in your bank, it becomes extremely hectic once Jelsoft updates vBulletin and you try to update a dozen styles within a couple of hours.

In addition, providing support for non-custom skins is a major pain. There is always the 10-year-old kid who somehow came up with the money for a vBulletin license and demands support for every little template tweak and nags on you 24/7 to change an element of the skin or add a feature that he wants.

Designing custom skins, on the other hand, is not only great fun, but also becomes more profitable than reselling skins, in the long run. Contrary to smacklan's post, I will heartily disagree about the business potential of doing custom work. Providing custom forum skins is not too different from designing a custom website. I've worked with many clients who needed not only a custom vBulletin skin, but also server setups, backend-programming, and even database administration. Contrary to what's been mentioned by just about everyone in this thread, there are companies that are more than willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on their websites. In my experience, working with companies on a one-to-one basis provides more income with a faster turnaround time than simply selling pre-made skins to mostly individuals and small companies.

[amykhar]

There is always the 10-year-old kid who somehow came up with the money for a vBulletin license and demands support for every little template tweak and nags on you 24/7 to change an element of the skin or add a feature that he wants. You get that with free mods too, which is what makes me cranky ;)

[smacklan]

Designing custom skins, on the other hand, is not only great fun, but also becomes more profitable than reselling skins, in the long run. Contrary to smacklan's post, I will heartily disagree about the business potential of doing custom work. Providing custom forum skins is not too different from designing a custom website. I've worked with many clients who needed not only a custom vBulletin skin, but also server setups, backend-programming, and even database administration. Contrary to what's been mentioned by just about everyone in this thread, there are companies that are more than willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on their websites. In my experience, working with companies on a one-to-one basis provides more income with a faster turnaround time than simply selling pre-made skins to mostly individuals and small companies.

You make some good points. There is good money to be made in both markets and there is also good residual income to the pre-made market. Alot of whats making me successful are the little things I provide to my clients that invaribly leads to more work and is a great source of satisfaction for me...it's not just about selling you a skin for me and many of my clients will attest to that.

Not all pre-made skin sites operate that way. Just as not all custom designers do either. One disadvantage custom designers have is they have a larger pool of competition as do they (sometimes) have a harder time proving a reputation for support.

I would venture to guess, that most freelance designers aren't going to have the 5 figure opportunities you have, nor the skills to follow through on those opportunities if they present themselves.

[MRGTB]

I hope I'm not being too abrupt by jumping in here. Just thought I'd like to share my experiences with vBulletin skins. :)

First off, thanks to Chris M. for listing me first. :p

Anyways, in the long run, from my experience, providing per-client custom solutions has generated far more income than pre-made skin sales. With that said, the work-to-money-earned ratio for pre-made skin sales is very nice and is a great source of (relatively) passive income.

I've tested the waters with selling made-for-mass-consumption styles a few times with a few skins over the past two years. It seems to me that while it may be lots of fun waking up to a hundred PayPal payments in your bank, it becomes extremely hectic once Jelsoft updates vBulletin and you try to update a dozen styles within a couple of hours.

In addition, providing support for non-custom skins is a major pain. There is always the 10-year-old kid who somehow came up with the money for a vBulletin license and demands support for every little template tweak and nags on you 24/7 to change an element of the skin or add a feature that he wants.

Designing custom skins, on the other hand, is not only great fun, but also becomes more profitable than reselling skins, in the long run. Contrary to smacklan's post, I will heartily disagree about the business potential of doing custom work. Providing custom forum skins is not too different from designing a custom website. I've worked with many clients who needed not only a custom vBulletin skin, but also server setups, backend-programming, and even database administration. Contrary to what's been mentioned by just about everyone in this thread, there are companies that are more than willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on their websites. In my experience, working with companies on a one-to-one basis provides more income with a faster turnaround time than simply selling pre-made skins to mostly individuals and small companies.

So like Smacklan, you agree the money to be made is in custom work, rather than mass-made-skins which are sold over and over to everybody. But on saying that, do you still make a nice earner out of mass made skins though?

[DirectPixel]

So like Smacklan, you agree the money to be made is in custom work, rather than mass-made-skins which are sold over and over to everybody. But on saying that, do you still make a nice earner out of mass made skins though?

I've stopped selling pre-made skins publicly.

[Princeton]

I would venture to guess, that most freelance designers aren't going to have the 5 figure opportunities you have, nor the skills to follow through on those opportunities if they present themselves.
you may be surprised at how many of us do "fit" in this category

there are many advantages/disadvantages on both sides -- the key is to find a company that will be around for the long haul

TIP WHEN BUYING SKINS:
1)__ Do not buy or use skins that contains deprecated code. ie. <font> :down:
2)__ Do not buy or use skins that do not validate XHTML. (validate code at http://validator.w3.org/)
3)__ Purchasing a custom skin will make your site stand out. Paying upwards of $1000 is not uncommon.

NOTE:
- Skins with deprecated code are usually bloated with unneccessary code.
- Skins that do not validate is a sign that "designer" does not know what they are doing OR a sign that "designer" is in it for the quick buck.
- 9 out of 10 skins that do not validate will usually give you problems down the road.

[MRGTB]

I've stopped selling pre-made skins publicly.

If you don't mind me asking, Why?

If they was bring in some income from sales, what made you decide to stop selling ready made skins

[DirectPixel]

If you don't mind me asking, Why?

If they was bring in some income from sales, what made you decide to stop selling ready made skins

It just ended up requiring too much of my time that could've been spent on doing other things that pay better and are personally more enjoyable.

As much as I love designing, it really becomes a pain to test and debug each skin every time a new release comes out, while still providing support for the skin (and for those who haven't upgraded)--in addition to doing custom design work and maintaining clients' servers and being on-call for back-end tech-support.

you may be surprised at how many of us do "fit" in this category

there are many advantages/disadvantages on both sides -- the key is to find a company that will be around for the long haul

TIP WHEN BUYING SKINS:
1)__ Do not buy or use skins that contains deprecated code. ie. <font> :down:
2)__ Do not buy or use skins that do not validate XHTML. (validate code at http://validator.w3.org/)
3)__ Purchasing a custom skin will make your site stand out. Paying upwards of $1000 is not uncommon.

NOTE:
- Skins with deprecated code are usually bloated with unneccessary code.
- Skins that do not validate is a sign that "designer" does not know what they are doing OR a sign that "designer" is in it for the quick buck.
- 9 out of 10 skins that do not validate will usually give you problems down the road.

You do realize that vBulletin uses the <font> tag everywhere, especially on showthread and BBCode-generated code, right? :p What I've (slowly) come to accept with vBulletin is that while you can get standards-compliant XHTML code, you can never go beyond that (except for recoding every single template, of course) and achieve semantically-correct code, tableless layout, and seperation of XHTML content and visual display.

(This auto-merge code is pretty neat!)

[MRGTB]

It just ended up requiring too much of my time that could've been spent on doing other things that pay better and are personally more enjoyable.

As much as I love designing, it really becomes a pain to test and debug each skin every time a new release comes out, while still providing support for the skin (and for those who haven't upgraded)--in addition to doing custom design work and maintaining clients' servers and being on-call for back-end tech-support.



You do realize that vBulletin uses the <font> tag everywhere, especially on showthread and BBCode-generated code, right? :p What I've (slowly) come to accept with vBulletin is that while you can get standards-compliant XHTML code, you can never go beyond that (except for recoding every single template, of course) and achieve semantically-correct code, tableless layout, and seperation of XHTML content and visual display.

(This auto-merge code is pretty neat!)

Have you ever just thought about maybe offering budget templates for ?5 -?10 a chuck to the mass market that come with "no support" due the the price there sold for as an alternative method of still selling mass-market templates. But at a budget price with no support because of the price structure there sold for. Then that would free up the support side of them templates sold, while still offering templates at a budget price for specific vBulletin versions only.

That would then leave another avenue to make cash from sales and not have to worry about supporting them low cost templates.

[DirectPixel]

Have you ever just thought about maybe offering budget templates for ?5 -?10 a chuck to the mass market that come with "no support" due the the price there sold for as an alternative method of still selling mass-market templates. But at a budget price with no support because of the price structure there sold for. Then that would free up the support side of them templates sold, while still offering templates at a budget price for specific vBulletin versions only.

That would then leave another avenue to make cash from sales and not have to worry about supporting them low cost templates.

We'll see. Maybe I'll release a few skins for free to everybody after I get some more time on my hands. As a personal project, just for fun. I'm so busy these days, I don't even know how I find the time to post on forums. :p

[Princeton]

You do realize that vBulletin uses the <font> tag everywhere, especially on showthread and BBCode-generated code, right? :p What I've (slowly) come to accept with vBulletin is that while you can get standards-compliant XHTML code, you can never go beyond that (except for recoding every single template, of course) and achieve semantically-correct code, tableless layout, and seperation of XHTML content and visual display.
by default, vbulletin is XHTML valid

the <font> tag is ONLY used in some bbcode which in this case is not a designer issue but a vbulletin issue

I highly recommend that everyone tests (validates) a style before purchasing or installing. To test a style, all one has to do is test the forumhome, forumdisplay, and showthread (with no bbcode on posts) pages. Testing these pages alone will give you a good indication if style validates.

[DirectPixel]

by default, vbulletin is XHTML valid

the <font> tag is ONLY used in some bbcode which in this case is not a designer issue but a vbulletin issue

I highly recommend that everyone tests (validates) a style before purchasing or installing. To test a style, all one has to do is test the forumhome, forumdisplay, and showthread (with no bbcode on posts) pages. Testing these pages alone will give you a good indication if style validates.

While I agree with you, I would like to point out a nice article to read that keeps everything about validation in perspective: http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/06/march-to-your-own-standard

Validation isn't everything, and while it's important, it is imperative to note that validation does NOT necessarily mean good code. Validating your code is a great tool to help debug your XHTML and your CSS, but does not guarantee accessibility, good coding practice, nor good design (both visually and semantically).

[CAMS]

While I agree with you, I would like to point out a nice article to read that keeps everything about validation in perspective: http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/06/march-to-your-own-standard

Validation isn't everything, and while it's important, it is imperative to note that validation does NOT necessarily mean good code. Validating your code is a great tool to help debug your XHTML and your CSS, but does not guarantee accessibility, good coding practice, nor good design (both visually and semantically).

i agree.

not a good idea to try debate with him dp he doesnt listen bud ;) as proved in a thread wer he tryed to tell me the rules of designing ;) lol..


also i dont mind companys buying styles from freelance designers then reselling them.. gives me someone to try sell my styles to lol

[Princeton]

While I agree with you, I would like to point out a nice article to read that keeps everything about validation in perspective: http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/06/march-to-your-own-standard

Validation isn't everything, and while it's important, it is imperative to note that validation does NOT necessarily mean good code. Validating your code is a great tool to help debug your XHTML and your CSS, but does not guarantee accessibility, good coding practice, nor good design (both visually and semantically).
I find the article hilarious.
All he has to do to validate his page is to change the DOCTYPE or if he desires to create "new attributes"--he can create a new one.

The answers are available but, if you choose not to do the homework ... well, that's on you.

Standards are available to help your "web pages" appear identical on all web appliances.

[DirectPixel]

I find the article hilarious.
All he has to do to validate his page is to change the DOCTYPE or if he desires to create "new attributes"--he can create a new one.I think you missed the point of his article. ;) Actually, I think you may have missed the point I was trying to convey as well.

The answers are available but, if you choose not to do the homework ... well, that's on you.I did not realize I was asking a question...

[Princeton]

i agree.
not a good idea to try debate with him dp he doesnt listen bud ;) as proved in a thread wer he tryed to tell me the rules of designing ;) lol..


also i dont mind companys buying styles from freelance designers then reselling them.. gives me someone to try sell my styles to lol

here's one that shouldn't talk .. selling skins that do not validate
what's really bad is that most of the "problems" in his coding style is common sense -- anyone with coding knowledge could tell you this

regarding the thread: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=108958
you ask for a "review" yet you feel hurt when something doesn't go your way ... why not cry somewhere else bud?

I think you missed the point of his article. ;) Actually, I think you may have missed the point I was trying to convey as well.
No, I didn't miss the point ... it's just that people like that usually do not do their homework. Hence, they cry foul when they cannot be bothered with STANDARDS. Standards are available for a reason ...
1)__ they can save you money
2)__ they can make your pages appear the same on many appliances

I did not realize I was asking a question...Sorry, that statement wasn't directed to you ... but, to the general public

[DirectPixel]

here's one that shouldn't talk .. selling skins that do not validate
what's really bad is that most of the "problems" in his coding style is common sense -- anyone with coding knowledge could tell you this

regarding the thread: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=108958
you ask for a "review" yet you feel hurt when something doesn't go your way ... why not cry somewhere else bud?


No, I didn't miss the point ... it's just that people like that usually do not do their homework. Hence, they cry foul when they cannot be bothered with STANDARDS. Standards are available for a reason ...
1)__ they can save you money
2)__ they can make your pages appear the same on many appliances

Sorry, that statement wasn't directed to you ... but, to the general public

There is a difference between STANDARDS and VALIDATION. I'm talking about validation. There's a difference.

Let me use the site listed in your signature as an example. http://www.gtwebhost.com -- I'm assuming that's your website, correct?

I put it into the W3C validator. It validates. Congratuations!

But that doesn't mean it's coded properly, nor does it guarantee it'll render properly in all browsers. Let's see... not commenting at your website's visual rendering but only at the source code itself, I found the following problems:

* Excessively nested <DIV> tags. You don't need 3 layers of <DIV> tags, 1 nested table, and another layer of <DIV> tags just to display your main navigation links.

* Tables not used for tabular data. The point of tables is to show tabular data. Not for layout. While your tables do validate because you've provided a summary attribute, you are using them improperly in a fashion not recommended by W3C (the organization and standards body behind your all-so-mighty XHTML Validator)

* Using ID's and Class names that are not descriptive of the content. Another recommendation made by W3C and adopted by designers worldwide.

* Inline tag-level stylesheet declarations. Again, not only bad coding, but also recommendations by the W3C. If you are going to be making tag-level stylesheet declarations, you're better off assigning either an ID and a Class (or both, and use the ID as a modifier of the class).


<div align="center">
<div class="page" style="width:740px; text-align:left">
<div style="padding:0px 10px 0px 10px">

<table summary="header area containing site logo/slogan and important links" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" align="center">
<tr>
<td>
<div class="nobgcolor"><h1><a href="index.php?"><img src="/images/misc/gtweblogo.gif" border="0" alt="gtwebhost - web hosting and web design, vineland nj" width="190" height="29" /></a></h1></div><div title="web hosting vineland nj, web design vineland nj">Web Hosting Solutions for Business Professionals.</div></td>

These are the first few lines of your <body>. Every single thing I just mentioned above applies.

These are just a few of the problems I found after taking a quick glance at the source code. I'm not trying to belittle your website or your skills--I am simply trying to point out that there is more to good web design and coding than simply validation.

There are many elements that contribute to "good coding", and proper validation is only one of them.

Standards are available for a reason ...
1)__ they can save you money
2)__ they can make your pages appear the same on many appliancesNot necessarily true. For many corporations, converting all their legacy pages to become standards-compliant can be very costly. However, I do agree--in the long run and when coding pages from scratch, making them standards-compliant may save a considerable amount of money.

However, being standards-compliant definitively does NOT mean your page will look the same in all browsers. There are rendering bugs in just about every major browser out there, which will affect how your final page will look.

Also, it's important to remember that the W3C validator only checks up on your XHTML markup. It doesn't check your linked stylesheets. Depending on your CSS, even the best-coded XHTML page can be broken in all the major browsers.

And if you REALLY want to get nit-picky, your DOCTYPE is XHTML Transitional. It is recommended by the W3C as a solution for transitioning between old-school HTML and modern standards. Under XHTML Strict (which, in today's world, is a very suitable doctype to use), your site would not render properly at all, since attributes such as "align", "border", "width", etc. have all been deprecated.

[Princeton]

now, you are talking about "coding style"...

I can have a page with <font> tags all over the place and still get it to validate. The difference is I know more than just "coding in html".

the difference between the style at gtwebhost and the styles that people are selling is that it is not for sale ... that style was made 3-4 years ago AND it is POWERED BY a vbulletin platform which is NOT xhtml compliant

and, I do agree with some points you made regarding said style - point taken
however, it has been edited many times since LAUNCHING the site; so, you will find some things that were not from the original

However, being standards-compliant definitively does NOT mean your page will look the same in all browsers. There are rendering bugs in just about every major browser out there, which will affect how your final page will look.

Also, it's important to remember that the W3C validator only checks up on your XHTML markup. It doesn't check your linked stylesheets. Depending on your CSS, even the best-coded XHTML page can be broken in all the major browsers.
I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement; however, that is not a problem with STANDARDS but with browsers. In time, all pages will display the same no matter what appliance you use.

[DirectPixel]

now, you are talking about "coding style"...

I can have a page with <font> tags all over the place and still get it to validate. The difference is I know more than just "coding in html".

the difference between the style at gtwebhost and the styles that people are selling is that it is not for sale ... that style was made 3-4 years ago AND it is POWERED BY a vbulletin platform which is NOT xhtml compliant

and, I do agree with some points you made regarding said style - point taken
however, it has been edited many times since LAUNCHING the site; so, you will find some things that were not from the original


I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement; however, that is not a problem with STANDARDS but with browsers. In time, all pages will display the same no matter what appliance you use.

Anyways, let's get back on-topic. ;)

[Princeton]

And if you REALLY want to get nit-picky, your DOCTYPE is XHTML Transitional. It is recommended by the W3C as a solution for transitioning between old-school HTML and modern standards. Under XHTML Strict (which, in today's world, is a very suitable doctype to use), your site would not render properly at all, since attributes such as "align", "border", "width", etc. have all been deprecated.and yes, you are right ... so, what does that make me ... hmmmmm... knowledgable at what I ' doing.

Now, try to get vbulletin to render correctly with XTHML Strict.

I never mentioned your work ... hmm, I'm wondering if I should take a look. Ahhh, that's ok ... I don't have the time. I'm guessing that I would tear it to pieces but that wasn't the intentions of my postings.

cheers mate .. it's been good discussing this with you but I have some work to do :up:

[CAMS]

lol @ saying my styles dont validate ..

a dont care they work in the mainstream browsers perfectly fine :P

oh and did i mention am NOT a coder? i dont claim to be a coder, am a graphics designer and know very little code.. enough to get a style working in most mainstream browsers without problems and enough to get it coded to look how i want and work how i want.

dont care if it validates or not as long as it doesnt slow it down or coz problems its fine.

realy do think your a twat tho princeton lol

anyway its about time this got back on topic as said.

[smacklan]

dont care if it validates or not as long as it doesnt slow it down or coz problems its fine.

hehe...good advertising there ;)

btw, "coz" isn't a word...it's spelled "cause". Do try and use proper spelling if you want people to take you seriously.

[MRGTB]

I love a good debate, much less boring! :)

But I have to say I do think sometimes this whole validation thing is taken much too literally. And I do think people get confused sometimes in thinking just because there site validates means it will work perfect in all browsers.

Which is not the case sometimes, as already pointed out.

[b6gm6n]

I have a set of 8 skins in 1 named 'Lapsus7' (with one extra skin for your pleasure) ...guess how much? :) Free... i did decide on making this all free as ultimatly it's the pleasure of using my skins that gives me great joy... maybe a few donations that come my way make up for alot anyways :)

Lapsus7 will be released in about a week!

-b6

[Corriewf]

I love a good debate, much less boring! :)

But I have to say I do think sometimes this whole validation thing is taken much too literally. And I do think people get confused sometimes in thinking just because there site validates means it will work perfect in all browsers.

Which is not the case sometimes, as already pointed out.


Uhh even this site has quite few errors.... I honestly dont care as long as it is functional.

[Sean S]

:cry: I guess I need to start working harder and get my site re-released, not even the first 2 letter of my name is mentioned :disappointed:

lol

[Princeton]

I love a good debate, much less boring! :)

But I have to say I do think sometimes this whole validation thing is taken much too literally. And I do think people get confused sometimes in thinking just because there site validates means it will work perfect in all browsers.

Which is not the case sometimes, as already pointed out.
yes, it's exciting and it does make people think; regardless, if you agree or not

my point in posting is to alert people to the coding style of some of these "designers" (not implying that anyone listed here is bad) ... but, some so-called "designers" are in it just for the money ... these are the people that you have to avoid

buying from the right people will save you money in the long haul -- people have asked me many times how they can tell the "good" from the "bad" ... well, using the W3C validation tool is a good start

using the W3C validation tool is the quickest way to check the "validity" of a designer - it's easy; it's fast; and, it's free

:up:

back to topic

[Sean S]

yes, it's exciting and it does make people think; regardless, if you agree or not

my point in posting is to alert people to the coding style of some of these "designers" (not implying that anyone listed here is bad) ... but, some so-called "designers" are in it just for the money ... these are the people that you have to avoid

buying from the right people will save you money in the long haul -- people have asked me many times how they can tell the "good" from the "bad" ... well, using the W3C validation tool is a good start

using the W3C validation tool is the quickest way to check the "validity" of a designer - it's easy; it's fast; and, it's free

:up:

back to topic

Yes I agree with the validation and it is very important to check it. However, this will not apply if you are only buying the design alone and coding it either yourself or having someone else do it for you. But if the designer is doing both coding and designing, it is important to check the validation cause it could tell how experienced or inexperienced the designer is or how he/she cares about the coding or not.

[b6gm6n]

people have asked me many times how they can tell the "good" from the "bad" ... well, using the W3C validation tool is a good start


Well, ok, tell that to vb... because theres an element within the default vB css that isn't XHTML1.0 compliant (or is that css2) :)... i.e using 'hand' for a menu drop downs! - i dunno... it shows that designer has taken time out to make his/her style pan-browser-dynamic :)

-b6

[CAMS]

hehe...good advertising there ;)

btw, "coz" isn't a word...it's spelled "cause". Do try and use proper spelling if you want people to take you seriously.

still get alot of clients without any problems ;) not everyone thinks validating is the holy grail.

sorry about the spelling, am scottish so my slang normaly takes over if ranting on. you will get used to it in time :P

and princeton if

"but, some so-called "designers" are in it just for the money ... these are the people that you have to avoid"

was aimed at me then u know so little... i sell my stuff alot cheaper than most ppl and have been known just to give stuff away coz i didnt want any cash for it.

also been known todo ALOT of free jobs just cause i was bored.

so the money aspect of it is just a bonus

[DirectPixel]

yes, it's exciting and it does make people think; regardless, if you agree or not

my point in posting is to alert people to the coding style of some of these "designers" (not implying that anyone listed here is bad) ... but, some so-called "designers" are in it just for the money ... these are the people that you have to avoid

buying from the right people will save you money in the long haul -- people have asked me many times how they can tell the "good" from the "bad" ... well, using the W3C validation tool is a good start

using the W3C validation tool is the quickest way to check the "validity" of a designer - it's easy; it's fast; and, it's free

:up:

back to topic

Since I design pretty much full-time, I guess I'm in it for the money. Don't want to be living on the streets, ya'know. ;)

But the work is fun, too. It's definitively a job that I like, which just happens to pay. :p

[lafsunlmtd]

kolby is a thief he did the same thing to me. but it was "the power has been out all over arlington for about a week now" and "my cousin died" "dude, i have been trying to reach you via e-mail" i am taking him to small claims court. normally wouldn't go this far, but this kid has really pissed me off. here is his information if anyone else wants to file a claim

* Edited: Personal info edited out as it is not proper to list it without the person's consent.

kolby aka vbcore aka vbtotal

[B.A.D.]

I won't go to vbcore....because all he has done to me is ripped me off. I paid him $750 and all he has done is stringed me along keeps telling me that everything is fine. And I have seen a piece of my design, he keeps coming up with "I am having surgery" or whatever excuse he has for that week. So I will have to put back the design work a few weeks.

So my warning to everyone is stay away from vbcore because you will get screwed in the end.

vBCore Warning (http://www.vbcorewarning.us/) site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.


Gents/Ladies
I HAVE BEN CONTACTED a-ok! A Mis Understanding

[smacklan]

good luck to you...hope you get what you are expecting and are pleased :)

[B.A.D.]

good luck to you...hope you get what you are expecting and are pleased :)

What does this mean my friend, are you suggesting Kolby will not perform?
Please tell me your feelings.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Gents/Ladies
I HAVE BEN CONTACTED a-ok! A Mis UnderstandingAnd who might you be?

New member just registered to make this post?

Please explain what your interest and/or input to this subject is.


Edit: This member contacted me in PM. He made it clear to me that he is just someone who also has done business with said designer and also had some troubles.

[smacklan]

What does this mean my friend, are you suggesting Kolby will not perform?
Please tell me your feelings.
I'm suggesting nothing more than what I said.

[Ohiosweetheart]

me thinks everyone is a bit touchy ;)

[Shelley_c]

me thinks everyone is a bit touchy ;)

Bar me? I've managed to keep my acute form of "forum rage" under control. :bunny:

[B.A.D.]

And who might you be?

New member just registered to make this post?

Please explain what your interest and/or input to this subject is.


Edit: This member contacted me in PM. He made it clear to me that he is just someone who also has done business with said designer and also had some troubles.

It basically was a 12 hour mis understanding and indeed Kolby stepped up to plate and appologised. I have received 1 nice concept in VERY short order. We are basically down to graphics. Perhaps Kolby had issues in the past. Looks to me like he is turning his ship about and heading into calmer waters.

[smacklan]

It basically was a 12 hour mis understanding and indeed Kolby stepped up to plate and appologised. I have received 1 nice concept in VERY short order. We are basically down to graphics. Perhaps Kolby had issues in the past. Looks to me like he is turning his ship about and heading into calmer waters.
Hope so...you will be the first in a very long time. btw, I have done lots of business with him and can tell you for a fact he doesn't design anything...he is a coder...so whatever you have been presented with has been designed by someone else.

[Ntfu2]

I asked for a custom quote from him(vBCore/Kody) about a month ago, and he wanted over 1k for a simple design. He kept contacting me via aim, trying to get me to send money to him, glad i didnt now :)


btw: the custom theme is now being designed for under 300 ;)

[Ohiosweetheart]

Bar me? I've managed to keep my acute form of "forum rage" under control. :bunny:

lol.. yeah you've been doing good darlin. Better than me actually :confused:

[melefire]

No, don't use VBCore, they are scammers

[ccvnct05]

Indeed!
Even for an exclusive one, made by specific request that's way overpriced IMHO.
However, noone is forced to buy a style for that ammount ;)

I just finished an exclusive style for someone who is pretty happy with it.
Went for under $300.

I enjoy making vB styles and I think my styles are not bad - even though I do have to raise my GFX skills some more....
Design, all GFX and the template "coding" of course is all done by me and myself. No third party involved.
I'm also thinking about walking more into the "making vB styles" thing, but there are soooooo many sites already selling styles....


My 2ct for this :)

Hi,

Please pm me your past work. I am looking for a custom skin that base on an existing skin, also couple hacking add-on. Willing to pay up to $800.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Hi,

Please pm me your past work. I am looking for a custom skin that base on an existing skin, also couple hacking add-on. Willing to pay up to $800.Please post in our Service Requests forum if you are looking to hire someone.

[tgillespie]

I asked for a custom quote from him(vBCore/Kody) about a month ago, and he wanted over 1k for a simple design. He kept contacting me via aim, trying to get me to send money to him, glad i didnt now :)


btw: the custom theme is now being designed for under 300 ;)Hows that working out for you BTW?

[Ntfu2]

Hows that working out for you BTW?


absolutely wonderful :D


even though i cant spell absolutely :D

[joh]

Hi all, what is the big deal with $700 + for a custom skin that you like and call your own? I have been looking for skin along with some mods for www.huligar.com/nsraweb/forum for a long time. I too have ran across (vBCore/Kody) and did not feel safe with him do to the fact that he did not want the money with pay pal. even after I made the payment with pay pal he refuse to start on the skin until it cleared. we claimed it would have taken him 2 days. (vBCore/Kody) has refunded my money and i have gone else where so you all could have done the same. I now have trueDeath working on the mod potion of the site and i must say i am happy with what he has done so far. TrueDeath does not do custom skins and i knew this going but he was willing to make all the mods that i needed to get by the same night that (vBCore/Kody) refunded my money. I now have a site that is not that nice to look at because i did the changes my self. I have look every where for some one to do a custom skin for me and no seams to be able to do it. every site that that claim to be able to it looks like the site i saw just before. on this forum I saw one unique site and now i can not find it, it was a pink site that looked very girlie, you all had a post on best skins are something. I would gladly pay for a site that did not look like it came out of a box. leave (vBCore/Kody) alone, let him make his money and provided skins like no other if that is what we is selling. if any of you can make a custom skin and willing to work with trueDeath, please pm me are him so my site can get complete.

[CAMS]

wouldnt touch vbcore with a barge pole. (would probly beat him with it tho)
had a few clients come to me after him ripping them off so i just supply them with his address and details and tell them to take it as far as they want.

And to top it off he doesnt make the designs (i know the designer thats done most of the skins vbcore has on his portfolio) and i can bet u a ton hes getting the designs for FAR less then 1k.

anyway just take the warning and dont risk it. and this lad is just given a bad name to the rest of us honest designers wich i dispise.

[chilllax]

dwight robinson aka. vica, is BY FAR the best designer out there and he has excellent service and he has a really cool coder.

[Lizard King]

I can't commet who is the best but what i love is any kind of custom made style. I am currently working on a new style for my board that i am going to launch with vb3.6.0 and i am planning to make it with minumum table usage. Currently i ge rid of all tables from showthread , adv_portal , postbit templates and planning to take maximum number of tables from forumdisplay and forumhome also. I am like 30% finished currently and i have plenty of time till vb releases stable 3.6 :) This is my challenge currently and i hope i'll succeed in this.

[Freesteyelz]

I give props to those who go the Tableless route for sites and especially forums. I'm looking forward to your layout, Lizard. Please keep us updated. :)

[Sean S]

haha nice Lizard I'm doing the same thing bud, but I'm doing it mostly for 3.5, if I get a chance I might do it for 3.6 as well, I might ask for help if I needed any from you or you could do the same ;)

[Shredder5655]

Hey guys, It looks like I got scammed by Kolby as well.

First, he wanted me to send it Via Western Union for Payment. Thankfully, the Western Union Guys talked me out of that. Now, he gives me a friends paypal address. Red Flag number two.

Two weeks go bye, nothing. Supposedly his computer crashed, and he's on vacation. First he goes to CA when the design is supposed to be ready, now he's supposedly down to Mexico. I guess I should go to Paypal and ask for my money back. again, what's a good designer that does graphics and coding for around $300's?

Thanks!

[Marky]

I <3 vbstyles :) They're the best in my oppinion - Extremepixels used to be good but they've not really done much lately...

[Shredder5655]

Well, thanks to the bank, I got my refund in full. The second designer, wich was found on another board, is actually going great. Should me a few previews, made adjustments to the ones I liked, got the skin done, and it should be ready within the week.

[KW802]

Well, thanks to the bank, I got my refund in full. The second designer, wich was found on another board, is actually going great. Should me a few previews, made adjustments to the ones I liked, got the skin done, and it should be ready within the week.Glad to see it worked out for you. In this day & age of virtual transactions it's getting tougher to submit CC & bank disputes.

[Shazz]

ME>all
________
Mazda AZ-Offroad history (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Mazda_AZ-Offroad)

[DirectPixel]

ME>all
Such modesty... :rolleyes:

[Sean S]

Such modesty... :rolleyes:
lol tell me about it :)

[Deimos]

Yea I got scammed for $1k, but....I did get most/all of it back
At first Paypal refused to reverse it, so I reversed it via my credit card company.

The ....idiot still sends me MSN messages asking if I want skins done (lol) even after he's been banned from here and still scams people

Me think he's got a screw or two loose somewhere.

Hey guys, It looks like I got scammed by Kolby as well.

First, he wanted me to send it Via Western Union for Payment. Thankfully, the Western Union Guys talked me out of that. Now, he gives me a friends paypal address. Red Flag number two.

Two weeks go bye, nothing. Supposedly his computer crashed, and he's on vacation. First he goes to CA when the design is supposed to be ready, now he's supposedly down to Mexico. I guess I should go to Paypal and ask for my money back. again, what's a good designer that does graphics and coding for around $300's?

Thanks!