No paid hacks rule

[akanevsky]

... is, in my opinion, pretty much pointless... Here's why:

- Advertising paid work does not harm neither this community nor its staff, as long as it has something to do with vB. It does benefit those who want what is in advertising.
- Some work is worth too much time to do for free. If some people do not value their time - it's their freedom not to value it, but it is also the freedom of others to request payment for it.
- If a piece of work is something userful, a person who created it must have an ability to tell the world about it. In case of vB hacks, there is no better place than this community. If a coder would do the same through a site, he would have to let people know about that site first. Which again would have to do with advertising..
- Posting advertising posts does not make a purchase obligatory.
- Posting advertising posts just makes all the hacks (paid and non-paid) centerred in one location, which benefits the community and esspecially those, who are willing to pay..

Considering everything I said above, what is the point in restricting advertisements of vB hacks?

[Chris M]

... is, in my opinion, pretty much pointless... Here's why:

- Advertising paid work does not harm neither this community nor its staff, as long as it has something to do with vB. It does benefit those who want what is in advertising.
- Some work is worth too much time to do for free. If some people do not value their time - it's their freedom not to value it, but it is also the freedom of others to request payment for it.
- If a piece of work is something userful, a person who created it must have an ability to tell the world about it. In case of vB hacks, there is no better place than this community. If a coder would do the same through a site, he would have to let people know about that site first. Which again would have to do with advertising..
- Posting advertising posts does not make a purchase obligatory.
- Posting advertising posts just makes all the hacks (paid and non-paid) centerred in one location, which benefits the community and esspecially those, who are willing to pay..

Considering everything I said above, what is the point in restricting advertisements of vB hacks?

You are free to advertise your paid hacks in your signature - I feel that is enough for this Community :)

Satan

[akanevsky]

You are free to advertise your paid hacks in your signature - I feel that is enough for this Community
Does anybody read those signature?

[Paul M]

Does anybody read those signature?Then why do you bother 'advertising' yours in your sig ????

Edit: Hmm, you edited your post as I was replying, which did say something like, "who bothers reading them ...".

[akanevsky]

Then why do you bother 'advertising' yours in your sig ????
Because that is the only thing I can do without having it deleted. -_-

[Logikos]

I read signatures all the time. If i want to know if Hellsatan is going to port any of his hacks. Instead of making a thread or PM to him. I check his sig first. And that goes towards any hacker

[akanevsky]

Okay, then it must only be me who does not read the signatures..

Anyway, I think it would be a good idea to create a separate sub-forum for the paid hacks :)

[Logikos]

It might be a good idea to create a subforum for hackers who want to advertise there paid hacks. I've spoken to a few clients who didn't know about sites beacuse there is no where to search for such site unless your ranked hi in google.

[Wayne Luke]

Anyway, I think it would be a good idea to create a separate sub-forum for the paid hacks :)

We may look at this as a paid monthly service in the future. I mean if you are going to be making money off your hacks, then we should make money off the advertisement on our site.

I can't guarantee anything will come of it though.

[bigcurt]

I read EVERYONE signature..there so intreresting on here ( especially satans XD lol )

[tamarian]

If some people do not value their time - it's their freedom not to value it

That's just silly, and very short-sighted view on why developers share their work on vb.org.

Nothing against you selling your stuff, but that's just demeaning to many here who value their time more than you do, and actually make more money out of it, without the need to put a price on every tiny bit of script they write.

Paid hacks, IMHO, can represent a lot of problems to vb.org and it's members, if endorsed in any way by vb.org. Since the community here cannot see the code and test it, it's bound to have some with security flaws that will go unnoticed. We'll be probably see a lot of disputes from members who didn't receive their goods after paying for it, and a lot of issues with licensing keys and licensing schemes like that one you did for that html manual script.

[bigcurt]

What you should do man is do what brian ( vBAdvanced ) and others did..just make a website where you sell all your things ( also have your free stuff on there ) and just link it in your signature. That way vbulletin.org has no affiliations or anything with it...wouldnt that be the best thing to do?

~Curt

[Logikos]

We may look at this as a paid monthly service in the future. I mean if you are going to be making money off your hacks, then we should make money off the advertisement on our site.

I can't guarantee anything will come of it though.

That would be great! Do something similar to what sitepoint.com does. ;)

What you should do man is do what brian ( vBAdvanced ) and others did..just make a website where you sell all your things ( also have your free stuff on there ) and just link it in your signature. That way vbulletin.org has no affiliations or anything with it...wouldnt that be the best thing to do?

~Curt

He doesn't like the fact that you have to place it in signatures. He believes they get unnoticed.

[Chris M]

I read signatures - They're kind of hard to miss...

Use the [high] tag to make it stand out on the page :)

Satan

[Logikos]

I read signatures - They're kind of hard to miss...

Use the [high] tag to make it stand out on the page :)

Satan

Satan knows that feature very well. :p

[Chris M]

Satan knows that feature very well. :p

I like my signature to stand out ;)

Satan

[bigcurt]

Haha, I love these sigs..I really do. You see some of the weirdest things 0_o

[akanevsky]

We may look at this as a paid monthly service in the future. I mean if you are going to be making money off your hacks, then we should make money off the advertisement on our site.

I can't guarantee anything will come of it though.
Yeah that's a good idea :)

High tag? What's that?

[Adrian Schneider]

[ highlight ]

I agree with Wayne, he should definitely charge advertising fees. ;)

[Logikos]

This is in between the [highlight] tags

[Chris M]

This is in between the [highlight] tags
[high] is the shorthand tag for [highlight] ;) But it doesn't make your text bold like [highlight]

Satan

[ZERO HERO]

Haha, I love these sigs

me too :ermm:

[Erwin]

That's just silly, and very short-sighted view on why developers share their work on vb.org.

Nothing against you selling your stuff, but that's just demeaning to many here who value their time more than you do, and actually make more money out of it, without the need to put a price on every tiny bit of script they write.

Paid hacks, IMHO, can represent a lot of problems to vb.org and it's members, if endorsed in any way by vb.org. Since the community here cannot see the code and test it, it's bound to have some with security flaws that will go unnoticed. We'll be probably see a lot of disputes from members who didn't receive their goods after paying for it, and a lot of issues with licensing keys and licensing schemes like that one you did for that html manual script.

I share those concerns. :)

vB.org is about volunteers offering their hacks up for free. I am not one to stop people from making money, but this is not the place for it. :)

Of course, this is a Jelsoft site so ultimately it's up to Jelsoft to decide if they want to go down that road.

[akanevsky]

It's not like you test EVERY hack they post here on vbulletin.org. You don't probably test even tenth of those... So this is just an excuse...

[Zachery]

... is, in my opinion, pretty much pointless... Here's why:

- Advertising paid work does not harm neither this community nor its staff, as long as it has something to do with vB. It does benefit those who want what is in advertising.
- Some work is worth too much time to do for free. If some people do not value their time - it's their freedom not to value it, but it is also the freedom of others to request payment for it.
- If a piece of work is something userful, a person who created it must have an ability to tell the world about it. In case of vB hacks, there is no better place than this community. If a coder would do the same through a site, he would have to let people know about that site first. Which again would have to do with advertising..
- Posting advertising posts does not make a purchase obligatory.
- Posting advertising posts just makes all the hacks (paid and non-paid) centerred in one location, which benefits the community and esspecially those, who are willing to pay..

Considering everything I said above, what is the point in restricting advertisements of vB hacks?

Why if anyone released paid hacks here, would people continue to commit free hacks.

Theres no reason for paid hacks to really be here IMO.

[The Geek]

The only paid macks Ive gotten have been by pure chance that I actually stumbled across them. There are countless great macks out there that could benefit countless people if there was a directory for them. A positive spin off would be ti encourage more to develop even better macks for an opportunity to at least cover some of their time put into development.

Why should Jelsoft make money off the service? Seems really tight to me. Arent ypu benefitting by more customers being attracted because of the better professional options and higher quality content availible? Heck... these guys writing the macks are customers writing code that sells to other customers. 99% of the time for under $30usd. I wouldnt call that enough to make a living off of. However... its your party ;)

As far as it hurting the community... how could it? If all macks cost a little, there would be even more incentive to produce great FOC ones.

IMO, not having a directory and not supporting professional developers (who generally write your better code) hurts the community far more than not. I would kill for a listing of professional sites selling vb add ons... I am sure there would be several I would buy.

Just me humble opinion. Now Im off to nJoy a cold beer by the pool. Muwhahahahaha.

[Paul M]

I won't be charging for any of my hacks (or my support time on them). I don't do them for profit, and neither do most other people. :) The only thing I ever charge for is installation work, and I don't do much of that as I don't have the time. Of course, anyone is free to donate if they wish, just ask and I will give you my paypal address. :)

[Princeton]

The only paid macks Ive gotten have been by pure chance that I actually stumbled across them. There are countless great macks out there that could benefit countless people if there was a directory for them. A positive spin off would be ti encourage more to develop even better macks for an opportunity to at least cover some of their time put into development.

Why should Jelsoft make money off the service? Seems really tight to me. Arent ypu benefitting by more customers being attracted because of the better professional options and higher quality content availible? Heck... these guys writing the macks are customers writing code that sells to other customers. 99% of the time for under $30usd. I wouldnt call that enough to make a living off of. However... its your party ;)

As far as it hurting the community... how could it? If all macks cost a little, there would be even more incentive to produce great FOC ones.

IMO, not having a directory and not supporting professional developers (who generally write your better code) hurts the community far more than not. I would kill for a listing of professional sites selling vb add ons... I am sure there would be several I would buy.

Just me humble opinion. Now Im off to nJoy a cold beer by the pool. Muwhahahahaha.

I totally agree! :up:

IMHO, I think charging for advertisement is the wrong direction.
The more "professional" addons/styles available the more sales for vbulletin.

A 'vb professionals' directory would certainly help the community.
How many times have you seen "What are the best vbulletin design sites out there?", "Where did you purchase your design?", etc.

Free addons will never stop ... it's a good business practice.

[kobescoresagain]

I personally would have no problem paying for a descent hack that was added onto the site. I think a good idea that could please many people would be alowing someone to charge for a hack for a certain amount of time, then requiring that hack to be free after it. So like they could charge $10 for 3 months. After those 3 months are up, then it would be public. Or the site could make it so that a user could only make a certain amount of cash on a hack before it became public.

Also possiblities would be to allow certain user catergories to get it free. So if you created a hack and allowed for it to be downloaded (and became a "coder") you would be allowed to download hacks for free. This would make more hacks avialable.

Charging for this "advertising" seems like a bad idea to me. If someone wants to make something for vb software to improve it, then I think VB should be happy about it. They are still making their money.

An alternative may be a donate to this member button that can easily been seen on the users hacks. While this wouldn't be as profitable, the users would still get a little bit of money for there hack.

[akanevsky]

I totally agree!

IMHO, I think charging for advertisement is the wrong direction.
The more "professional" addons/styles available the more sales for vbulletin.

A 'vb professionals' directory would certainly help the community.
How many times have you seen "What are the best vbulletin design sites out there?", "Where did you purchase your design?", etc.

Free addons will never stop ... it's a good business practice.

Yep, I completely agree too.
As they say - "you get what you pay for". And although sometimes it may not be true, paid stuff is usually of a higher quality.

[Erwin]

It's not like you test EVERY hack they post here on vbulletin.org. You don't probably test even tenth of those... So this is just an excuse...

What has testing hacks got to do with allowing commercial scripts on a free script site?

[bigcurt]

Yep, I completely agree too.
As they say - "you get what you pay for". And although sometimes it may not be true, paid stuff is usually of a higher quality.

Sorry man but I just disagree, this site is about a FREE place where you can post FREE modifications to the best forum software in the world, if you want to make money off of it, that is totally fine and I understand you would like to do so, but a Jelsoft owned site is NOT the place to do it, I advise you to just make a site for your piad hacks and then link it in your sig ( and if I were jelsoft, I wouldnt allow you to do that ) just my opinion.

~Curt

[RichieBoy67]

hmmmmm... what was wrong with my post and why was it removed?? I was not advertising services??

Please advise as to why my post was removed from this thread...

[bigcurt]

I remember your post, and it was fairly off topic, how can you not say that it was offering services? Your spamming your site..thats just my belief, I have no clue the reason that a moderator removed it, but it was something like that haha

~Curt

[Princeton]

personally, I wouldn't mind paying for 'advertising' ... I think it's a great way to give back to the people who run this site (volunteers).

[RichieBoy67]

Yes, I posted a link to my site.... spamming??? I don't think so... lol

I was just trying to help actually but oh well...... guess someone would be jealous to have hacks get posted somewhere else......... lol

[Brad]

Yes, I posted a link to my site.... spamming??? I don't think so... lol

I was just trying to help actually but oh well...... guess someone would be jealous to have hacks get posted somewhere else......... lol

It was deleted because it was self promotion:

From the site rules (www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php)

2. Self-Promotion :

Please do not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, forums, email address, business, MLM, activity, or other entities that you have an affiliation with (ie. no self-promotion).

Keep in mind that the admin's pm boxes are always open if you would rather handle such things in private.

[akanevsky]

What has testing hacks got to do with allowing commercial scripts on a free script site?

I cannot tell you that since you erased your own post. You mentioned something about the fact that "paid hacks cannot be tested for security which would be bad".

Yes, I posted a link to my site.... spamming??? I don't think so... lol

I was just trying to help actually but oh well...... guess someone would be jealous to have hacks get posted somewhere else......... lol

Well it seems like they randomly erase posts... lol. Oh well.

[RichieBoy67]

I was actually doing people with paid hacks a favor but I am sorry... didn't mean to break the rules. I don't want to end up in vborg jail... lol

[tamarian]

What has testing hacks got to do with allowing commercial scripts on a free script site?
I cannot tell you that since you erased your own post. You mentioned something about the fact that "paid hacks cannot be tested for security which would be bad".

That was not Erwin who said that, it was yours truely.

Hacks on vb.org, which you say are made by people who do not value their time, are open to inspection, and all members and developers can try it, read the code freely, and report any problems.

[akanevsky]

Ah.. It was you who said in, rather than Erwin...

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=740524&postcount=11

Paid hacks, IMHO, can represent a lot of problems to vb.org and it's members, if endorsed in any way by vb.org. Since the community here cannot see the code and test it, it's bound to have some with security flaws that will go unnoticed. We'll be probably see a lot of disputes from members who didn't receive their goods after paying for it, and a lot of issues with licensing keys and licensing schemes like that one you did for that html manual script.

That's funny.. you are actually repeating what I say, while trying to disprove anything I say at the same time.

Are labels really important to you? Concerning my "html manual script", as you call it, the license key is actually just your personal password which helps you to make sure nobody can access your script except for you. If you look at the PHP code, there are no callbacks or whatsoever... Leave alone the fact that you are doubting my PHP security skills without having even reading any of my codes... Which, therefore, has no reason behind it, unless you just enjoy criticizing others... However, this is in an offtopic, so if you'll excuse me..

[bigcurt]

I thought he was referring to PAID hacks..Why are we still discussing this and why was it even brought up? To ask a business to endorse your money making is not right. You want to make paid hacks fine, do it on other terms...

~Curt

[akanevsky]

I thought he was referring to PAID hacks..Why are we still discussing this and why was it even brought up? To ask a business to endorse your money making is not right. You want to make paid hacks fine, do it on other terms...

What are you talking about?

[tamarian]

That's funny.. you are actually repeating what I say, while trying to disprove anything I say at the same time.

It may be funny to you, I don't know you that well. You are essentially biting the hand that feeds you, by using people's free tools, than accusing them that they don't value their time. It's too low, IMHO.

If you look at the PHP code, there are no callbacks or whatsoever...

Why should I pay to look at your code just to check it? For example, Marco today spotted an SQL injection flaw in hack that was uploaded merely an hour or so before, and instantly called the author on it. Making him pay to check for these things is ridiculous.

I do not know you skills, and can neither endorse them or disparage them. But please show some respect to the work of others that you use. If you can't thank them, at least don't insult them.

Many of us here who do release free work get substantial contracts, corporate and otherwise, to do similar work (I got an offer from an Italian corporation to customize my UCCASS survey hack). I wish you the best of luck in making money, and you do not need to insult others in order to make it.

[akanevsky]

I don't know you that well
Precisely! You don't know me that well, but you assume that every possible bad aspect of coding applies to me too.

It may be funny to you, I don't know you that well. You are essentially biting the hand that feeds you, by using people's free tools, than accusing them that they don't value their time. It's too low, IMHO.

vBulletin is not a free tool. And I am not accusing "people" that they do not value their time. I am accusing specifically those who spend year(s) on writing something and then ask nothing in return.

Why should I pay to look at your code just to check it?

I only said that if any one person would look at it, they would see that there is no callback in it. Besides, that one person could cut the callback out, as was mentioned before. I did not that you should or have to do anything.

I do not know you skills, and can neither endorse them or disparage them. But please show some respect to the work of others that you use. If you can't thank them, at least don't insult them.

If you check out my posts, you will find out that I thank people for every hack that I install... Or at least, I say some words of appreciation, like "this is a very nice hack".

I wish you the best of luck in making money

Right now I am not trying to make my money. I started the thread saying that there should be some rule that woud allow posting paid hacks. Just to discuss it.. That got carried away though...

and you do not need to insult others in order to make it.

Whom did I insult?

That was not Erwin who said that, it was yours truely.

Actually, it could not be mine because it goes against everything else I said in this thread... If it is mine, please quote the exact post where I said it. Thanks.

[Dream]

maybe a site that only deals only with paid scripts for vBulletin?...

and custom code requests, paid stuff

mysql finetuning, mod installation, troubleshooting, maintenance

- Paid vBulletin Modifications Advertisement
- Service Requests Advertisement
-- Installation / Custom Modification Installation
-- MySQL Finetuning
-- Troubleshooting
-- Custom Code
- Testimonials

for free, of course

[tamarian]

It may be funny to you, I don't know you that well. You are essentially biting the hand that feeds you, by using people's free tools, than accusing them that they don't value their time. It's too low, IMHO.
Precisely! You don't know me that well, but you assume that every possible bad aspect of coding applies to me too.

No, just going by what you have posted in this thread so far, nothing personal.

vBulletin is not a free tool.
If you are using vBulletin, then you are using a lot of the free hacks posted in this forum, by "some people do not value their time", such as hacks released by Kier, Overgrow, Chen and many others mentioned in vB's credit file. Plus, you probably are using Apache, PHP and MySQL, which value their time more than you could imagine.

And I am not accusing "people" that they do not value their time. I am accusing specifically those who spend year(s) on writing something and then ask nothing in return.

Here's what you said:

- Some work is worth too much time to do for free. If some people do not value their time - it's their freedom not to value it, but it is also the freedom of others to request payment for it.

[Paul M]

As well as free hacks, you get a lot of free fights here as well. Entertainment while you code - it's great. :)

[amykhar]

It's always been my position that if this is to be the ultimate vbulletin resource that it needs to advertise the paid hacks - for a fee - as well. Why wouldn't it? It's a win-win situation for Jelsoft, who makes money on the ads and who can control which paid mods are advertised here.

Amy

[The Geek]

Though Im not overly bothered about charging for advertising, I still have to disagree about it in concept.
A- The cost of the advertising simply gets passed onto the customer
B- Most wont bother with the average cost of the scripts being very low to begin with. Charging to advertise a service that enhances Jelsofts product means that the average coder wanting to have the opportunity to recoup some expenditure out of their work would have to turn it into a business.

I think what everyone is against is the concept of people making a business strictly out of making projects for vB and getting advertising for free. I seriously doubt that anyone could really do something like this as:
A- The bulk of all scripts are FOC
B- The bulk of scripts that are not FOC cost very little. Couple in the time to devlop and support, I cant see anyone even making a good full time job from doing vB modifications. If the possability exists - then more power to them.

I personally feel that it would be a big plus to jelsoft to offer a directory of modifications along with their costs and a link to the site for more information (AND maybe a member rating). Charging for the right to be in the directory would undermine the purpose behind it.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Let's play the devil's advocate (again ;)

A lot of coders here release most of their work for free here at vb.org because they feel that is the right thing to do. This category will probably be releasing most of their work for free whatever we do.

Another big part of the coders make work that could (not saying the above category of coders could not) charge a small amount for most of their work, but simply don't feel like going through the trouble of advertising and setting up a site to support paid service for the relative small amount of income that could be generated out of this.

I think that if it was easy too advertise their work to the whole community, they might choose to post in the paid hack forum when given the choice of releasing it for free or for a small amount. That would be the beginning of the end of this community in my opinion.


PS In the above i am not talking about the bigger solutions that are offered for payment.

[sabret00the]

PRO's
====

Quality control, more variety, a larger community as the money hungry hackers flock from far and why trying to sell their products

CON's
====

People release less free hacks as they already have the market and thus only released paid hacks and then the comm just becomes a market place.





Who knows i wouldn't mind either way :)

[akanevsky]

People release less free hacks as they already have the market and thus only released paid hacks and then the comm just becomes a market place.

I would have to agree... However, that would not happen if the community staff members would decide what to allow for paid forum and what not to allow. Only the best modification, imo, should be paid.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

I am sorry but then we would have to monitor and analyze all posted hacks, and decide if they are one of 'the best modification'. We would be like the Jury on Idols.

I am sorry but that would only result in decissions being not accepted and long discussions. There is no way (that i can think of) we could pull that off. And what i might think of as a good hack that should be payed, might be considered worthless by someone else.

[Princeton]

I don't recommend a 'paid addon' forum.
I think this will be confusing to some members.

A simple "PRO" link directory where members can submit their sites and rate others (comment required) is all that is needed.

This way .. a list of available vb resources can be found if member is seeking specific services/applications.

vb.org can charge for better placement within directory and a title tag; otherwise, submission is free.

[akanevsky]

a list of available vb resources can be found if member is seeking specific services/applications.

That's probably the best way. And making a separate site is no problem.

[The Geek]

Dear Abby,

That would be the beginning of the end of this community in my opinion.

Cant for the life of me see why, it just a little too doomsayeresque for me but then again we just disagree a bit.

IMO the best way is to grab something like vba?s links directory and allow submissions and ratings. It isnt going to result in everyone sudenly wanting to pay for everything, it will just result in a lot more visibility for those that cant give theri time away for free.

Lets face it, Jelsoft should support these guys as much as us martyrs that do it FOC.

If I seem biased its only because I have pondered (especially as of late) the pros and cons of being a macker moving to paid only versions of hacks (some others have prodded me to contemplate this). Not because I could make money at it (it would be impossible to make even a fraction of my time investement back), but because it would give me the opportunity to code more projects that I would like to sink my teeth into.
Its hard enough to keep my head above water now as I spend most of my free time devoted to upgrading my work for 3.5 and supporting the people who currently have my work installed.
There are at least 4 more major macks I have in early stages (GeekMart and GeekBay have been in the pipeline for months now) but it is impossible to squeeze out any more time to devlop these concepts.

I dont code vb mods for profit, I code them because:
1- I need the mods for my site
2- I like to code
3- I get a buzz from others enjoying my work

If I go the paid route, I would have only serious installers paying me a fraction of what it cost for me to actually make the mods. I have never done that because that route violates one of the key reasons why I code: because others may nJoy my work. Saying that, 75% less installs means a lot less support which means I can get onto some of the other projects I have brewing.

so... Charge $5-$30 per mod and release more mods or drown in support for current releases and never have time to make new, better and innovate work?

its a real catch 22.

Im going back to the pool to contemplate the string theory and its relation to cold beer.

[libertate]

There is one more tiny problem no one mentioned... :rolleyes:

If a programmer develops a set of code that is for a fee, and does well - if the same functionality is included in a following vB version, what stops the programmer from suing Jel for theft?

The vBorg community is so incestuous with code, you can hardly tell which code is a sister, mother, daughter, or neighbor's wife... :devious:

Take a look at the last five years suits against Microsoft. Majority of them were because an ancillary program features appeared in a follow-up version of MS product. Some with and some without merit.

Even just the threat of such suit could cripple a small business. :ermm: Yes, I do have first hand experience - that is why I no longer code.

I would LOVE to see a comprehensive resource of developers of code, styles templates, etc... I am just not sure how it would be implemented... :tired:

[tamarian]

Cant for the life of me see why, it just a little too doomsayeresque for me but then again we just disagree a bit.

I think it's from past experience :)

I'm not gainst a directory listing commercial products. My preference is for such a list to be done on vbulletin.com, not .org The .com has more clout as the official site, and can demand some conditions to be met, prior to listing them to prevent any abuses.

But getting vb.org into this does open up a few cans of worms.

1. Licensing issues. First there's the vBulletin license. We alrady see a lot of posts to have member's enter their license information, and the occasional glitches when some one no longer shows up to the mods as a licensed user. Now you'll have multiple licensing issues and they can get entangled with each other, as to who's licensed to what.

Are commercial hack authors privy as to who is a licensed vB holder? Does vB care that only liensed vB member's can get support for commercial hacks done by 3rd party on vb.org? Would they need to share such info? Would they provide or request such info? Do members care to let some personal info be shared by both parties...

2. Disputes. We already see a few heated disputes between service providers and members. Someone paid for the work and didn't get it. Someone did the work and didn't get paid, each one flaming the other and vb.org mods have no way to tell who's right and who's wrong. Now add in to the mixture paid hacks, and disputes as to if a member paid for the hack, or pirated the hack, or paid for the hack and the author is MIA and neither delivered the product, nor supports it. Or a glitch in whatever licensing mechanism that author uses, and further disputes about that.

Each of these can get really personal, as it will involve accusations of piracy, or taking other people's money, and no one knows who's telling the truth, of it's it's a bug in licensing keys. Then you'll get members saying they know that this member would never accuse someone unless it's true, and other will say the same for the author and becomes too peronal.

Multiply this by the number of paid hacks, as more and more get added here.

Of coure this would not happen with every paid hack, but it is bound to happen once it becomes more frequent.

It could get ugly really fast.

3. The "Lite" model: In the forum rules it already lists this as an option:

Rules Regarding Commercial/Paid Hacks:

1) You can link your commercial/paid scripts/hacks/services in your signature but without any promotional language (eg. "best", "cheapest" etc.). The signatures rules still apply to such signatures.

2) Paid hack, scripts or commercial addons can be discussed in vbulletin.org without being promoted. However, authors of the commercial hack or addon cannot start threads discussing their own products or promote it in anyway in vb.org posts. If a commercial hack discussion thread turns into a promotional thread, it will be closed or deleted. If authors are found using another account or encouraging a friend account to circumvent this rule, all accounts involved will be banned.

3) Beta or Lite versions of commercial hacks/scripts may be released here as long as:
a) The beta or lite version is fully functional
b) The beta or lite version is not time limited in any way
c) The beta or lite version is completely free
d) The beta or lite version is stand-alone and completely separate to the full version
e) A link back to the full version is allowed, as long as no price or promotional language is embedded into the beta or lite version.

This way at least you don't have any of the above problems, no dispute about money or licenses, and a good way to show your goods. If one doesn't want to do that, they can just do what other commercial developers do, start their own business like PhotoPost, vB Advance Gallery, etc.

[amykhar]

Gang, many of you run ad banners on your site. Do your members hold you responsible for the service offered by your advertisers? At best, they may just ask you to zap an ad banner for a scummy advertiser. I don't see the difference here.

Amy

[Borgs8472]

Whilst I have no strong feelings either way regarding where advertising of this nature should go, I get annoyed very quickly browing vb.org when scrolling an often long support thread means going past 101 links to people's sites where they do their coding.

I know it's relevent to vb.org and such, but the sigs annoy me as much as any outwar or free ipod link, I wish there were a forum to place them all in.