Hacks should be released in ONE ZIP file please [Archive]

jpt62089

06-16-2005, 11:48 PM

Andreas

06-16-2005, 11:51 PM

Well, most Hacks do consist of multiple files anyway.
And even if it is only one file ZIP saves Bandwidth :)

Erwin

06-17-2005, 12:45 AM

There are coding and other reasons for this too. :) It would be of great assistance if hackers could do this.

Paul M

06-17-2005, 01:33 AM

What if a hack has multiple versions available in the same thread ?

If a hack is just one xml plugin file this makes very little sense - it make the process slower for author and installer.

Marco van Herwaarden

06-17-2005, 03:47 AM

It would hardly make it slower, and has a lot of advantages. Maybe we should reconsider allowing multiple files if you have more then one version active.

One other advantage is that you would have some very basic chek if the download was not corrupted. (zip file would fail to open, with txt you will never know).

But the main reason is that most hacks come with more then 1 file (even if only a plugin and a description/instruction text file) and it would be much easier if a member can have them both together instead of in seperate files which could get confusing if you keep a lot of hacks stored somewhere that you have installed.

Paul M

06-17-2005, 04:19 AM

It would hardly make it slowerIf it's just a single file then the end user now has to unzip a file they previously could just download and use - a longer process. Okay, I'll grant you it's not much longer and probably not worth worrying - but it is a longer process. :)

Maybe we should reconsider allowing multiple files if you have more then one version active.This is my main point - it doesn't make sense to zip up multiple versions into one zip - the end user only needs one of them. In my specific case I am referring to my Flashchat mods - there are multiple live versions because of the different versions of Flashchat in use.

Logikos

06-17-2005, 04:43 AM

I'll begin to ZIP all my hacks when i get the chance and update my all my hack threads. When you guys upgrad to 3.5. I think it would be nice to see how many downloads again. :)

Erwin

06-17-2005, 04:55 AM

I'll begin to ZIP all my hacks when i get the chance and update my all my hack threads. When you guys upgrad to 3.5. I think it would be nice to see how many downloads again. :)
That's one reason why we want it all in 1 file. There are other reasons to do with the proposed database and future features planned. :)

Logikos

06-17-2005, 05:10 AM

Excellent! :)

Revan

06-17-2005, 07:32 AM

Hi

In order to make it easier for members when they download hacks and to prevent multiple attachments when a hack is posted, we will soon be restricting hacks to just ONE ZIP file. Try to put all XML, TEXT, PHP, into the ZIP file please. :)

We have decided to restrict archives to ZIP since it comes standard in most Windows PC. TAR etc require 3rd party software.

Screenshots can still be posted separately but can be also included in the ZIP.

Thanks!(This entire post was made under the assumption that Attachment Size Limit has not changed, or it is still too low for my points below to be valid, which I have not checked as of yet. If it has, please ignore this post)
I am sorry, but I am unable to comply with this rule for my RPG Integration Hack. It contains mass amounts of images, and even putting all images in 1 zip file would make it too large for the Attachment feature. And given that the next version of my hack will contain even MORE images, to be able to comply the limit must be increased to ~20 MB.
I have more than 400 images (some are very small but still), and as you can understand it would be impossible to work with an attachment limit below that.
The only other solution I have would be to offer the images as a download on the site Dan and I are making for the RPG project, but licence verification would be limited to a replica of the GeekyDesigns way (a post here with a hash inside a code block that would need to be input on the site), which creates hassle for the end-user.
I will watch this thread and my PM box for any updates on this :)

//peace

Marco van Herwaarden

06-17-2005, 07:41 AM

I agree that a hack with so many images and such a big size, would difficult with this rule. I think however that we will not "hard" enforce the 1 zip-file rule (see also the discussion on multiple versions above).

I think however that a hack that is larger then 2Mb would be a real exception around here.

sabret00the

06-17-2005, 11:04 AM

i hate it, infact detest would be a better word when screenshots are zipped up (i don't care how many there are), but if it's only one file, zipping it is a nuisance especially as an end user, let alone as a hacker, but meh, your house, your rules :)

Colin F

06-17-2005, 11:24 AM

i hate it, infact detest would be a better word when screenshots are zipped up

That's why Erwin wrote this part: "Screenshots can still be posted separately[...]"

Marco van Herwaarden

06-17-2005, 12:25 PM

Actually i think we should even add that we would like that the version number is in the name of the zipfile.

I do it like that for a long time already, and this will allow you to have more versions of the same hack in 1 directory, with having to rename the real files involved.

Actually this was one of teh arguments in the discussion we had before we made this request, but it seems we have forgotten about it.

Paul M

06-17-2005, 04:08 PM

Just to clarify - is this just for 3.5.0 hacks - many pre 350 hacks are just a single text file (certainly in my case).

Marco van Herwaarden

06-17-2005, 06:52 PM

This was triggered by the fact that lately a lot of vB3.5 hacks where leased consisiting of 1 or more text/xml files. But you can consider it a a general request.

jugo

06-17-2005, 07:09 PM

If it's just a single file then the end user now has to unzip a file they previously could just download and use - a longer process. Okay, I'll grant you it's not much longer and probably not worth worrying - but it is a longer process. :)

As a leecher ...um ... i mean user, I can assure you that even if it's just one file, It's not much to extract it.

besides anything to zave bandwidth.

Also, I like to keep a library of all the hacks I've installed and when i install them I zip them right back up.

calorie

07-09-2005, 02:13 AM

While I can minimally understand the zip request, I also find it rather irritating. Now you cannot even attach a txt file in a regular post because valid file extensions were changed to the following: bmp, gif, jpe, jpeg, jpg, png, zip.

It would seem that, as this site depends in part on hackers, TPTB would try to make it more, rather than less, convenient for hackers. For me personally, I might think twice about posting code or mods, given this new rule.

Paul M

07-09-2005, 03:02 AM

Tony G

07-09-2005, 07:30 AM

It's completely pointless for single files, and quite irritating to have to zip up a single text file (you can't attach php files to posts either, I abandoned an update the other day because of this, there seems to be an asumption that every machine has the ability to zip/unzip, which they don't). I couldn't even be bothered to complain as I know it's a waste of time.
It saves bandwidth. Please understand this, even if it's just a little we save, it's still something, and can accumulate with all the zips posted on all of the modification forums to a decent saving of bandwidth.

Zipping up is NOT a hard process. It's most likely going to be one right click. It will take you less than a minute. Absolutely nothing compared to the time coders spend on some of their modifications.

calorie

07-09-2005, 08:16 AM

It does not always save more than a non-neglibile amount of bandwidth. See the attachment. If there is such a concern over bandwidth, get rid of the images and styles, and make this site similar to a text-only site.

No, it is not a hard process, but it is not always one click, and it is not always less than a minute. Especially for one file, it is a PITA extra nuisance step, one that you have heard deters at least a few vB hackers.

Tony G

07-09-2005, 08:43 AM

It's not a huge concern, but it's always better to save some where we can.

calorie

07-09-2005, 09:10 AM

Hmm, I wonder if TPTB thought about surfing habits in relation to zip files. At least some members could regularly request zip files twice, to view the archive content and then to save, whereas a request for a txt, php, etcetera file might be made just once. So, for the sake of discussion, if a zip is say fifty percent compressed, two accesses saves you how much?

Erwin

07-09-2005, 10:26 AM

Okay, there are other reasons to do with the future database front-end and other tracking purposes why we require the attachment for hacks to be in ZIP format. I can't discuss this publically but we request this for a specific reason that we cannot fully disclose. But it is for a reason and not merely to upset people.

calorie

07-09-2005, 12:11 PM

Why not just create and store the zips on the fly? See this (http://codewalkers.com/getcode.php?id=65) for an example. That way TPTB get zips, and those hackers that are annoyed, especially with one file, do not have to zip.

Christine

07-09-2005, 01:36 PM

For anyone interested -- here is a Windows GNU/LGPL zip application that also handles gzip, tar, deb, rpm, etc.

It is tested and working in *nix via WINE.

http://www.7-zip.org/

</offtopic>

Paul M

07-09-2005, 02:56 PM

Zipping up is NOT a hard process. It's an IMPOSSIBLE process if you don't have the software on a machine. Bandwidth should be of no concern to a site this size, if you are on a hosting package where it is then you are on the wrong package. Cricky, even our site, which is on it's own server, has some ridiculous figure like 2000GB a month ! Any decent higher package would be a fixed speed, unlimited bandwidth.

Okay, there are other reasons to do with the future database front-end and other tracking purposes why we require the attachment for hacks to be in ZIP format. I can't discuss this publically but we request this for a specific reason that we cannot fully disclose. But it is for a reason and not merely to upset people.Thank you, now we are getting somewhere instead of answers that make little sense. :)

Christine

07-09-2005, 03:36 PM

I am confused why a zip compression tool is such a concern. There are a host of free ones out there.

For Macs:

http://www.maczipit.com/

http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/

http://www.macwindows.com/compress.html

For *nix:

http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/

Paul M

07-09-2005, 06:24 PM

I am confused why a zip compression tool is such a concern. There are a host of free ones out there.I'm sure there are, that's not the point. Have you considered that I may not want (or be permitted) to install then on some pc's (like compay machines) ?

Christine

07-09-2005, 07:13 PM

Paul, I appreciate that -- but if this will be a forum requirement because of the new system they are building, I think offering alternatives to how to work within it may help. :)

tamarian

07-09-2005, 07:16 PM

Bandwidth is NOT the issue. vb.org already has gzip emabled on the server pages. so using zip files is the same as text files in terms of bandwidth.

we request this for a specific reason that we cannot fully disclose.

Sigh, that's another one of those "don't ask" decisions from the top.

I really hope it's a really good reason, and the reason has to be secret, and us cattle users should not know anything about it. It's at least less insulting than the "malicious developers" reason from the other thread.

This is really not the way to build and lead a successful community, and the more of these surprise "secret" reasons for decisions you keep coming up with does not bode well for the forum, and the efforts people have to put in for the privilige of sharing their work here.

Licensing is vb.com's responsibility and the more you want to squeze and burden honest members for the sake of possibly spotting a couple of bad apples here and there is not worth ruining this forum for the rest. The more you keep doing these things, the more need there will be for an alternate place, and if that happens, you'd even lose the ability to request simply entering a license #. So please stop it already, it's really getting sick.

Wayne Luke

07-09-2005, 07:18 PM

I'm sure there are, that's not the point. Have you considered that I may not want (or be permitted) to install then on some pc's (like compay machines) ?
This isn't a really valid argument in 2005...

Microsoft Windows has had inherent ZIP file format for both compression and decompression since Windows 98SE. It is a standard feature in all Windows computers sold today.

All Unix/Linux based Operating Systems (including the Macintosh OS X Series) install TAR which can decompress and compress ZIP encoded files as well as TARBALLS. Beyond that each of them also comes with GZIP which is a comparable utility.

I have not needed to install a ZIP utility on my computer for the last five years no matter what operating system is installed. They have become standard utilities.

If by some off chance your company computers do not have these utilities and having one installed is vital to your work then I am sure network services can easily install one for you. If it is not necessary for your work at said company, then you most likely shouldn't be modifying vBulletin at work. If your OS is so old that it doesn't have these capabilities then you should really look into upgrading.

Yes, you can say it adds an extra burden on you but do not try to make up invalid excuses.

tamarian

07-09-2005, 08:09 PM

If by some off chance your company computers do not have these utilities and having one installed is vital to your work then I am sure network services can easily install one for you. If it is not necessary for your work at said company, then you most likely shouldn't be modifying vBulletin at work. If your OS is so old that it doesn't have these capabilities then you should really look into upgrading.

Yes, you can say it adds an extra burden on you but do not try to make up invalid excuses.

Wow, I'm sure you guys think this makes perfect sense....

If their company (I guess they have to have Windows, and must install zip) etc. etc. or one shouldn't be using company computer (even at lunch time) ....

This is the pitfall of deciding for eveyone in secrecy and then thinking of excuses why it should work for everyone.

Wayne Luke

07-09-2005, 08:21 PM

Wow, I'm sure you guys think this makes perfect sense....

If their company (I guess they have to have Windows, and must install zip) etc. etc. or one shouldn't be using company computer (even at lunch time) ....

This is the pitfall of deciding for eveyone in secrecy and then thinking of excuses why it should work for everyone.
But they don't have to install anything... Windows computers support ZIP files by default.

Not making excuses for anything. Nothing has been decided for secrecy. Having a standard file format instead of 10 different compression routines or other file formats is a common sense decision. Has nothing to do with Jelsoft's policies.

tamarian

07-09-2005, 08:30 PM

But they don't have to install anything... Windows computers support ZIP files by default.

Why do you assume all companies must have Windows? Most of my emplyers run Ultrix or HP-UX, and some run Solaris.

Not making excuses for anything. Nothing has been decided for secrecy.

we request this for a specific reason that we cannot fully disclose.

Paul M

07-09-2005, 08:46 PM

Yes, you can say it adds an extra burden on you but do not try to make up invalid excuses.You mean like the site making up invalid excuses about bandwidth ..... "people in glass houses" springs to mind.

Wayne Luke

07-09-2005, 08:52 PM

Why do you assume all companies must have Windows? Most of my emplyers run Ultrix or HP-UX, and some run Solaris.

I don't... Those OSes ship with utilities that are capable of Zipping and Unzipping multiple files as well.

I specifically mentioned Windows in my post because you did. I can ZIP and Unzip files on my webserver which isn't windows based and there was no additional software installed.

Wayne Luke

07-09-2005, 08:55 PM

You mean like the site making up invalid excuses about bandwidth ..... "people in glass houses" springs to mind.

As stated above, bandwidth is only one consideration. However for anyone running a website, bandwidth is your primary expense and should always be looked. Someone above said that Jelsoft should be able to get by with 2000 GB of bandwidth a month, that just isn't happening. This site is not on its own server. It shares a server with vBulletin.com which has humongous bandwidth demands with the thousands of emails and vBulletin downloads it has every day.

twoseven

07-09-2005, 08:59 PM

omg people if they only allow .zips then people can only upload zips arguing about it wont change the fact. 99.98% of the os installs out there will have support for zips in 1 form or another. there are also php programs that will zip files and unzip files for you. stop being so pigheaded. they could have said all programs have to have their own installer in an executable format(exe). now that would have gone against many. but zip is universal.
also i dont know of any company that likes you to work on other projects at work other than what your assigned to do.
last time i checked solaris had zip compression in for along time(unix has it built in longer than windows/mac OSX). dont be an obstructionist just because your panties get pulled up under a wegie. if you could make some valid points then it would suite you case much better. the way it sounds to me you are just some bratty teenagers throwing a tantrum because your not getting your way

oh btw keep up the good work vb-team(org/com)

Paul M

07-09-2005, 09:05 PM

Paul, I appreciate that -- but if this will be a forum requirement because of the new system they are building, I think offering alternatives to how to work within it may help. :)The alternative is to allow single text or php files. :) Perhaps they should have been more open about this "request" in the first place, We still don't really know why it's a requirement of the "new system". (It's not really even a request is it, since the ability to do anything else has been removed, it's really a "you have no choice" order).

tamarian

07-09-2005, 09:10 PM

99.98% of the os installs out there will have support for zips in 1 form or another.

You don't get it. Other forms of archives is not acceptable by vb.org under these rules, only zip. Not even gzip, which vb.org uses by default to compress the bandwidht here.

there are also php programs that will zip files and unzip files for you. stop being so pigheaded. they could have said all programs have to have their own installer in an executable format(exe). now that would have gone against many. but zip is universal.
also i dont know of any company that likes you to work on other projects at work other than what your assigned to do.
last time i checked solaris had zip compression in for along time(unix has it built in longer than windows/mac OSX). dont be an obstructionist just because your panties get pulled up under a wegie. if you could make some valid points then it would suite you case much better. the way it sounds to me you are just some bratty teenagers throwing a tantrum because your not getting your way

You're some peice of work. Not sure how old you are, but thanks for the laugh. :)

Paul M

07-09-2005, 09:14 PM

omg people if they only allow .zips then people can only upload zips arguing about it wont change the fact. If you are happy to accept everything you are told to do - without question - then fine, feel free to find another topic. I am not, and have no problem in making my points when I disagree with something.

the way it sounds to me you are just some bratty teenagers throwing a tantrum because your not getting your wayWhatever. I think my teenage years are long passed. I'm simply not a doormat - if I dislike a decision then I will excercise my right to disagree. Unless, of course, another rule preventing this has been passed ..... :)

tamarian

07-09-2005, 09:15 PM

I don't... Those OSes ship with utilities that are capable of Zipping and Unzipping multiple files as well.

I specifically mentioned Windows in my post because you did. I can ZIP and Unzip files on my webserver which isn't windows based and there was no additional software installed.

I mentioned windows because of your flase assumptions. OS'es ship with archiving tools, not ZIP. vb.org does not accept tgz or gz format.

Wayne Luke

07-09-2005, 09:20 PM

tamarian

07-09-2005, 09:33 PM

Hmmm... Have worked on Unix/Linux based OSes for over 10 years and never had a problem with ZIP files. Always was able to uncompress without any external utilities or applications. This OSes include Solaris, HP/UX, and AIX among others.

Not making false assumptions, speaking on experience from almost 2 and a half decades of working with computers.

Your experience and environemnt don't match that of everyone, but since we both know this is not the reason, I'll stop discussing none Windows computers/environemnts.

You can't have it both ways. In one breath "it's not secrecy", and in another "bandwidth is just one consideration" and the admins clearly stated "cannot disclose the reason". And in one breath "Jelsoft has nothing to do with it" and in another "Jelsoft has to pay for the humongous bandwidth demand".

Let alone the fact vb.org has gzip compression enabled.

If you can't say the reason out loud, don't try to enterpret how companies allow or disallow internet access at work for employees, or how your Linux/Unix server is setup. The silliness of these excuses to avoid posting a single txt or xml files are more obvious than you think.

I have ZIP on my home PC and can manage, I just resent all these new secret policies and changes coming up lately.

Guest190829

07-09-2005, 10:28 PM

I don't see why this is a big deal, Just zip the files. As members of vB.org we should all trust both Erwin and Xenon that any new policy that is put into place is for the better of the community.

Regs

07-09-2005, 11:14 PM

Yeah, I wish those pesky dudes down at the United Nations would have done the same thing when Bush wanted to bomb Iraq to bits.

It would have been so much simpler if they would have just trusted America from the start.

:rolleyes:

Guest190829

07-09-2005, 11:29 PM

Please don't tell me your comparing Xenon and Erwin to George Bush...please.

tamarian

07-09-2005, 11:41 PM

I don't see why this is a big deal, Just zip the files. As members of vB.org we should all trust both Erwin and Xenon that any new policy that is put into place is for the better of the community.

I truely respect your opinion.

The thing is, many of us where using vB since 1.x and were used to a certain level of honesty and transperancy. Recent decisions by the team raised a lot of alarm bells in many of us. We used to release code on vbulletin.com before vbulletin.org was created. There was mutual respect, and clear understanding why things were done. Recently this has changed. Part of it is the loss of transperancy, and things are chasnged suddenly and you have to live it, and announcements are made after the dead is done. That's bad, but livable. Then, the worst IMHO, is that some of the changes were to addres the possibility that you and me may release code to maliciously explot other members, which I find very offensive (it's another thread), and the possibility that you or me may priate copies (possibly this thread), and I also find that offensive.

As far as I'm concerned, ZIP is a trivial issue. The real issue is these excuses of "undisclose reasons", or the possibility of exploting or pirating. Granted, these thigns happen from a few members out of 10's or thousends, it's just wrong to make everyoen pay the price for such paranoia, and treat the whole community of developers in thsi way. So it's not the ZIP, it's a lot of little things here and there that signal bad things to come, which usually happens when you just accept such changes without even getting an honest answer for them. (bandwidth and employer work policies is not an honest reaosn IMHO)

Andreas

07-09-2005, 11:47 PM

Erwin already gave the answer, so please read his post.

tamarian

07-09-2005, 11:48 PM

Erwin already gave the answer, so please read his post.

Wayne already answered as well, so please read his post.

Christine

07-10-2005, 02:29 AM

Hi tamarian,

As another long time (but in and out per work demands) member, I think it is safe to say that we both have seen changes -- to both sites.

I also think that it is fair to say that these changes have benefited the community in the long run thanks to Wayne's oversight.

While I appreciate your concerns about the recent decisions, I think that we need to let Erwin, Stefan, Brad, and their teams have some room to manuever here.

If they have a streamlined design that will make managing this place easier for the mods here (a key concept to ALL of us), that has at its core a one-file-per-hack limit, then what skin is it off any of our collective backs to abide by that?

I thought the members of one of the sites I run fighting over 'thread preview' was inane, but quite honestly, this argument ranks almost as high. :(

I will do this. I will offer to become the unofficial 'vb.org' zip queen. I will invite myself to a vb.org-specific gmail account and set up instant notification. Anyone who does not have access to a .zip compressor -- email me the files and I will zip them up and return them to you with a smile.

I am serious about that -- for anyone who would like the assistance. Just let me know. :)

tamarian

07-10-2005, 02:52 AM

Anyone who does not have access to a .zip compressor -- email me the files and I will zip them up and return them to you with a smile.

If the problem was zip files, I'd say that solves the problem.

For those of uss who do not appreciate being considered pirates and malicious hackers/exploiters, it doesn't. :)

Christine

07-10-2005, 03:29 AM

Hi tamarian,

Where was the indication that you [or any of us] were "pirates and [or] malicious hackers/exploiters"?

All I am seeing here is the admins trying to enforce a restriction to help moderate the forum.

I am not looking for a fight (not my style) -- it is just the admin in me that leans to defaulting to the mods here as I trust that they will do what is in the best interest of the community (and that trust based on the last few years of watching them in action)

Out of curiosity -- what would you suggest they do differently?

COBRAws

07-10-2005, 03:35 AM

Damn, most of you act like old ladies! Me, as an end user, and *starter* coder love to have hacks zipped in just one file. Its tidy, simple, and you dont have to worry about how many files does that hack contain. Just one zip file, and no worries.

great rule, cya

tamarian

07-10-2005, 03:49 AM

Where was the indication that you [or any of us] were "pirates and [or] malicious hackers/exploiters"?

You haven't been checkign the feedback forum lately :)

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=91039
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=91392

Plus the "cannot diclose the reason" why you have to zip even a single txt file in this thread, or bandiwdth reasons, or employer reasons... And a couple of other recent incidents.

All I am seeing here is the admins trying to enforce a restriction to help moderate the forum.

That would have not been objectionable at all. Why would things that would "help moderate" the forum be such a top secret?

I am not looking for a fight (not my style) -- it is just the admin in me that leans to defaulting to the mods here as I trust that they will do what is in the best interest of the community (and that trust based on the last few years of watching them in action)

We're all admins here, and I assume we all want to build a better community. If you haven't noticed, most of the original vb.org mods, admins and founders are gone, and no longer here. That's not the issue. The issue is that changes should be for the best, and secrecy, hidden agnedas and excessive authoritative unjustifiable demands that don't make sense are not always for the best of any community.

Out of curiosity -- what would you suggest they do differently?

About what?

Bandwidth is already compreseed on vb.org using gzip. There's nothing to do.

About transperancy and communication? As stated here and in other threads, transperancy, announcements prior to major changes, not after, and none, or less, of this "stop the discussion" "read the post" "we can't tell you why you must do this"... etc.

Tony G

07-10-2005, 05:37 AM

That would have not been objectionable at all. Why would things that would "help moderate" the forum be such a top secret?

So are you saying that because we're not giving away all the reasons for the rule to the community that this rule is ineffective?

You don't even know what those reasons are, yet you come to the conclusion that they don't help the community at all, or to moderare it. You can judge that if you knew, otherwise you simply have no grounds to judge this rule on.

calorie

07-10-2005, 11:38 AM

You don't even know what those reasons are, yet you come to the conclusion that they don't help the community at all, or to moderare it. You can judge that if you knew, otherwise you simply have no grounds judge this rule on.

While I agree that zip is a trivial issue, this thread is titled "Hacks should be released in ONE ZIP file please" and so I was like okay, TPTB asked nicely so I will try to comply, but then I went to attach a puny text file in a post, and it was then that I noticed, that while the zip request is for hacks, it is now forced, even for posts. If you combine that type of action with posts like the one quoted herein, and with certain posts in the threads referenced above, it seems there is more of an us versus them mentality nowadays and certain posts only instigate further separation. Nothing personal to anyone, but it just doesn't feel as friendly and open around here anymore. Hopefully things will change for the better.

Tony G

07-10-2005, 12:05 PM

Well maybe something can be done so that the attachment restrictions only apply to the first post in hack threads, but you can image that might be a bit of work.

but it just doesn't feel as friendly and open around here anymore.

I'm really sorry that you feel like that. I hope it changes for you, too. :)

Paul M

07-10-2005, 12:07 PM

You don't even know what those reasons are, yet you come to the conclusion that they don't help the community at allThat seems to be the problem - no one except the chosen few knows, because you aren't saying. :)

Reeve of shinra

07-10-2005, 05:10 PM

Maybe it was already mentioned but perhaps there is a way to combine the files into a single zip upon upload?

akanevsky

07-10-2005, 07:07 PM

I agree. Good post, Erwin.

Colin F

07-10-2005, 07:32 PM

Lively discussion here :)

When this was discussed internally, similiar arguments came up from staff. We discussed it and it was decided that we would restrict uploads to single zip files.
Allthough not everyone may agree, we still ask you to respect our decision.

On the other hand, because some voices have come up in this thread, I'm sure we'll have another look at the issue.
I could imagine that options like automatic zipping, allowing single files as txt/php and allowing different attachments in different forums are possibilities. Please don't expect changes before our upgrade to 3.5 though, as all of this would require code modification, and it was decided not to modify the code until 3.5 is available.

Thanks for your cooperation :)

kall

07-10-2005, 07:55 PM

Zip, schmip. :)

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. If it has to be forced, that's not as cool, but if people are requiring force in order to do it, then it's acceptable.

Can anyone imagine the hassle involved in downloading a Style that was individual files? :)

The bandwidth reasoning is also a valid one for me...we are storing these hacks on vb.org's server, so teducing the load on that server is just common decency on our part.

akanevsky

07-10-2005, 08:30 PM

But I have a better idea.
To conserve even more bandwidth, allow RAR archives. They take much less space than ZIP with the same contents.

tamarian

07-10-2005, 08:38 PM

The bandwidth reasoning is also a valid one for me...we are storing these hacks on vb.org's server, so teducing the load on that server is just common decency on our part.

If that was really common decency, then it will follow that members should not post anything unless it's related to a mod or a plugin. Since the average size of the plugin xml file is smaller than a many posts in the lounge forum, or image file formats which are still allowed. Maybe we can delete forums that are not related to hacks or styles like the lounge, to save some disk space and bandwidth...

It's not about bandwidth or disk space as many here seem to think. I'd gladly host vb.org out of my own pocket, but be sure that Jelsoft would not accept that, since this is beyond bandwidth, and for specific reasons.

Erwin

07-10-2005, 10:25 PM

But I have a better idea.
To conserve even more bandwidth, allow RAR archives. They take much less space than ZIP with the same contents.
Most OSes suppost ZIP but not all support RAR.

ZIP is the most prevalent archive utility out there.

akanevsky

07-10-2005, 10:28 PM

ZIP is the most prevalent archive utility out there.
I know. Unfortunately, that's true. Should be fixed by the OS developers though. -.-

Biker_GA

07-11-2005, 01:09 AM

I prefer tarballs. :devious:

akanevsky

07-11-2005, 01:13 AM

I prefer tarballs.
Why? The only reason I can see is because it is a native Linux format. But, sizewise (if there is such a word) - isn't RAR still smaller?

twoseven

07-11-2005, 01:33 AM

rar has a better compression ratio but ace has the best. but neither are standardized to the point that zip is.

Biker_GA

07-11-2005, 01:50 AM

Why? The only reason I can see is because it is a native Linux format. But, sizewise (if there is such a word) - isn't RAR still smaller?

Yep, RAR is smaller, but I do prefer handling tarballs. (Yes, I use a Linux installation.) ;)

Luckily, Konqueror handles zip files well enough.

Erwin

07-11-2005, 10:01 AM

Just so members know, the vBulletin.org staff are discussing this issue as we speak to see if we can come up with a better solution. Thanks for your patience.

Paul M

07-11-2005, 12:42 PM

Just so members know, the vBulletin.org staff are discussing this issue as we speak to see if we can come up with a better solution. Thanks for your patience.:up:

Chris M

07-11-2005, 02:23 PM

Why don't you develop your own way of compressing data? Call it .stefan or .erwin ;)

Satan

Erwin

07-12-2005, 02:34 AM

Why don't you develop your own way of compressing data? Call it .stefan or .erwin ;)

Satan
We are seriously looking into that. :)

tamarian

07-12-2005, 03:39 AM

Please don't expect changes before our upgrade to 3.5 though, as all of this would require code modification, and it was decided not to modify the code until 3.5 is available.

For the record, no code changes are required, and it doesn't take that long to restore things as they were. File types are defined through the admincp in vBulletin. The same way the file types were removed instantly a week or two ago, they can be returned instantly as well, from the admincp.

If you want to stop modifying things until 3.5, then just stop modifying things until 3.5. Hopefully common sense will prevail by then.

Erwin

07-12-2005, 11:25 AM

For the record, no code changes are required, and it doesn't take that long to restore things as they were. File types are defined through the admincp in vBulletin. The same way the file types were removed instantly a week or two ago, they can be returned instantly as well, from the admincp.

If you want to stop modifying things until 3.5, then just stop modifying things until 3.5. Hopefully common sense will prevail by then.

We did it now so that when we go to 3.5 and use a new system, we don't have to go back and start zipping up attachments again.

I'm interested to know why you are so adamant against zipping up attachments - if only to save bandwidth and hard disk space for Jelsoft, it is reason enough.

Feel free to PM me to discuss.

tamarian

07-12-2005, 12:06 PM

I'm interested to know why you are so adamant against zipping up attachments - if only to save bandwidth and hard disk space for Jelsoft, it is reason enough.

For the same reasons I pointed out in the other 2 threads. The pattern now seems to go like this:

Staff decides to do something (usually disabling a stock vB feature, or removing a a hack), then they just do it. Then feedback comes in, then an announcement is posted after the fact saying things will be done this way from now on. If members don't like, 3 things will happen: One mod will say "read the post!", the other will say "We have reasons we cannot tell you" or "what do you really need that for?", and the third will say "We appreciate your opinion, and we may revisit the issue after we upgrade to 3.5"

As for saving Jelsoft bandwidth, despite it being already compressed with Gzip, let me say this: The disk space and bandwidth was initially paid by the founders of the forum, and there are many here who won't mind hosting it. Jelsoft picked it up in order ensure the licensing. Now that it has it and can check the licensing, now it complains about the monthly cost to run it? They can't have it both ways, either let soemoneelse run it and pay for it, or if they prefer to host it to ensure licensing, then they need to pay.

The more they increase control, and decide in the dark about all these issues, and we're just told to do it and "try to understand" without any obvious reason, the more it will driver down the quality of the work people are willing to share.

I know many members don't understand this, for they probably didn't see this pattern, and it only effects developers, but they might be next. They'll be equally outraged if they needed to fill things, or do certain things to download each hack, and being told they have to do it for "undiclosed reasons".

I'm sure you guys mean well, but your are overpolicing this thing to death, and making all authors pay for the sins of of one or two, which is not the right thing to do, period.

Colin F

07-12-2005, 01:13 PM

For the record, no code changes are required, and it doesn't take that long to restore things as they were. File types are defined through the admincp in vBulletin. The same way the file types were removed instantly a week or two ago, they can be returned instantly as well, from the admincp.

If you want to stop modifying things until 3.5, then just stop modifying things until 3.5. Hopefully common sense will prevail by then.
I said we were looking into other possibilities, for example zipping files when they're attached. These require code modification and for that reason we're waiting until 3.5.
Once again I ask you to respect this decision at least temporarily.

Chris M

07-12-2005, 02:30 PM

For the same reasons I pointed out in the other 2 threads. The pattern now seems to go like this:

Staff decides to do something (usually disabling a stock vB feature, or removing a a hack), then they just do it. Then feedback comes in, then an announcement is posted after the fact saying things will be done this way from now on. If members don't like, 3 things will happen: One mod will say "read the post!", the other will say "We have reasons we cannot tell you" or "what do you really need that for?", and the third will say "We appreciate your opinion, and we may revisit the issue after we upgrade to 3.5"

As for saving Jelsoft bandwidth, despite it being already compressed with Gzip, let me say this: The disk space and bandwidth was initially paid by the founders of the forum, and there are many here who won't mind hosting it. Jelsoft picked it up in order ensure the licensing. Now that it has it and can check the licensing, now it complains about the monthly cost to run it? They can't have it both ways, either let soemoneelse run it and pay for it, or if they prefer to host it to ensure licensing, then they need to pay.

The more they increase control, and decide in the dark about all these issues, and we're just told to do it and "try to understand" without any obvious reason, the more it will driver down the quality of the work people are willing to share.

I know many members don't understand this, for they probably didn't see this pattern, and it only effects developers, but they might be next. They'll be equally outraged if they needed to fill things, or do certain things to download each hack, and being told they have to do it for "undiclosed reasons".

I'm sure you guys mean well, but your are overpolicing this thing to death, and making all authors pay for the sins of of one or two, which is not the right thing to do, period.
Throwing your toys out of the pram won't get this resolved...

Regardless of your objections and countless reasons to continue a losing arguement, the fact remains that for at least until vB.org is upgraded to 3.5 it will enforce this rule :)

In the meantime, the staff will take into account the feedback they have recieved and make a decision on such - Constantly replying and continuing to pester them will not help you or your cause, nor will it allow them the time to think about it if they have to keep "putting the toys back in the pram" ;)

So calm down, leave it where it is, and trust that they are considering it as they have tried to explain numerous times...

Satan

tamarian

07-12-2005, 02:42 PM

Throwing your toys out of the pram won't get this resolved...

What have you been smoking dude? Who said anything about me throwing my toys out? I love this place too much to do that, otherwise I wouldn't have cared enough to voice my objections to these new changes, and how they are being enforced.

You like to follow blindly and accept undisclosed reasons for changing things etc. be my guest, you're not alone.

Chris M

07-12-2005, 08:08 PM

What have you been smoking dude? Who said anything about me throwing my toys out? I love this place too much to do that, otherwise I wouldn't have cared enough to voice my objections to these new changes, and how they are being enforced.

You like to follow blindly and accept undisclosed reasons for changing things etc. be my guest, you're not alone.
Several reasons are not undisclosed - One of them, the main one that should be enough for you, is that the ADMINISTRATORS have decided it would be best...

I'm not following blindly - If you wish to use a tool such as this forum, you have to follow the rules, regardless of your stance for them or not...

You have said several times throughout this thread you are unhappy with the rules - Repeating yourself annoys people...

Satan

tamarian

07-12-2005, 08:28 PM

You have said several times throughout this thread you are unhappy with the rules - Repeating yourself annoys people...

You are mistaken, or unaware of the distinction. The forum rules have not changed yet:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/rules.php?

My arguments in the last 3 threads are about specific points on changes in the direction and vision of vb.org, and possibly worse changes to come. I am not trying to repeat myself, simply replying to each newly presented argument, such as yours.

This forum started by hack authors who should have a voice. You are entitled to cheerlead these changes as much as you want, and you could care less why they're being done. But I'm entitled to make my objections noted. Deal with it.

Chris M

07-12-2005, 08:35 PM

You are mistaken, or unaware of the distinction. The forum rules have not changed yet:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/rules.php?

My arguments in the last 3 threads are about specific points on changes in the direction and vision of vb.org, and possibly worse changes to come. I am not trying to repeat myself, simply replying to each newly presented argument, such as yours.

This forum started by hack authors who should have a voice. You are entitled to cheerlead these changes as much as you want, and you could care less why they're being done. But I'm entitled to make my objections noted. Deal with it.
I'm not denying your right to make objections noted...

You still argue with me when I'm trying to get you to stop arguing...

You have made them known multiple times within this thread and others - I'm tired of reading a thread and having you repeatedly arguing with staff and other members about points you have already made clear earlier on in the thread...

I don't "care less" about them - I think it is a good idea to have them released in one format...

I'm not mistaken - This is an announcement about a new rule - Just because the rules.php file doesn't reflect this does not mean I am mistaken or you are correct ;)

Now you may have many conspiracy theories about this minor issue leading to the corruption of the world and a dictatorship ran by an online community, I don't care...

Your attitude is very confrontational and I simply believed that getting you to stop and let the issue die was the best idea - Apparently you are more stubborn than I anticipated...

You've made your points, the staff have made theirs - Drop the issue, walk away and see what happens...

Satan

tamarian

07-12-2005, 08:58 PM

I'm tired of reading a thread and having you repeatedly arguing with staff and other members about points you have already made clear earlier on in the thread...

You have the option to unsubscribe.

Now you may have many conspiracy theories about this minor issue leading to the corruption of the world and a dictatorship ran by an online community, I don't care...

That's your mistaken impresison, as I have made no such comparisons. But I think someone did make a reference to politics.

Your attitude is very confrontational and I simply believed that getting you to stop and let the issue die was the best idea - Apparently you are more stubborn than I anticipated...

How does that differ from your attitude? Go get your club :)

You've made your points, the staff have made theirs - Drop the issue, walk away and see what happens...

I'll try ;)

Paul M

07-12-2005, 09:11 PM

I just find it pointless and annoying to have to zip up single files. I have no objection when multiple files are involved. It's also the fact that this request has actually been forced by removing the ability to upload text or php files on any post, not just the first post of hacks - as the saying goes - "a sledgehammer to crack a nut". :)

Chris M

07-12-2005, 09:27 PM

You have the option to unsubscribe.

I don't subscribe to threads - Contrary to beliefs threads can be viewed by looking in a forum not via an email subscription...

That's your mistaken impresison, as I have made no such comparisons. But I think someone did make a reference to politics.

It's called sarcasm...

How does that differ from your attitude? Go get your club :)

My attitude is a direct result of your continuing wish to argue - Go figure...

I'll try ;)
Trying would involve no longer replying to this thread...

Satan

Regs

07-12-2005, 10:09 PM

FWIW,

Erwin did say he was interested in hearing more.

Chris M

07-12-2005, 10:30 PM

Feel free to PM me to discuss.
:)

Satan

tamarian

07-13-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erwin
Feel free to PM me to discuss.

Satan

I did.

Trying would involve no longer replying to this thread...

Not really, as far as I'm concerned, I'll try not repeating points.

For example, as a new point, you still think this is a new rule.

It is not even a rule. Rules are placed for actions that you can take, but should not. And if you do not follow those rules, you accept to pay the consequences.

Uplaoding txt or xml or php is no longer possible. It's gone. For hacks, or for normal posts. You cannot do it even if you want to. So a rule for this does not make any sense.

Had it been a rule, it would go something like this "Do not upload large files unless they are compressed as a zip file. If you repeatedly upload large files (larger than 10 kb) without zipping, then ..... "

So that would be a rule.

Sorry you feel annoyed by my posts, but that's your problem.

Chris M

07-13-2005, 01:45 AM

Just because you cannot swear (due to the filtering system) does not mean "not swearing" is not a rule any more ;)

It is a rule - Just because you cannot get around it doesn't make it any less of a rule...

The "annoyance" factor is more from your appeared lack of acceptance that the staff have already said they will think about it...

Satan

tamarian

07-13-2005, 02:09 AM

Just because you cannot swear (due to the filtering system) does not mean "not swearing" is not a rule any more ;)

I assure you, I can swear if I feel like it. Filters only capture a few popular 4 letter words.

It is a rule - Just because you cannot get around it doesn't make it any less of a rule...

The "annoyance" factor is more from your appeared lack of acceptance that the staff have already said they will think about it...

Satan

Feel free to give a feedback asking for this to be added a s a rule.

I actually do have a lack of acceptance to many things I object to, and I've been doing it since 2000 here and at vb.com. One of my favourites was when Jelsoft stopped offering Impex as a download, and demanded that people send their db's if they want them imported, and Jelsoft staff will do the importing for them.

I objected a lot stronger than I'm doing now. I annoyed a lot of people, and had people actually ask "What are you afraid of from submitting your database..." "Jelsoft already decided that, so stop" etc. blablabla. I kept at it, and thankfully, they dropped that decision.

If that annoys you, be annoyed.

Chris M

07-13-2005, 02:13 AM

I assure you, I can swear if I feel like it. Filters only capture a few popular 4 letter words.

Feel free to give a feedback asking for this to be added a s a rule.

I actually do have a lack of acceptance to many things I object to, and I've been doing it since 2000 here and at vb.com. One of my favourites was when Jelsoft stopped offering Impex as a download, and demanded that people send their db's if they want them imported, and Jelsoft staff will do the importing for them.

I objected a lot stronger than I'm doing now. I annoyed a lot of people, and had people actually ask "What are you afraid of from submitting your database..." "Jelsoft already decided that, so stop" etc. blablabla. I kept at it, and thankfully, they dropped that decision.

If that annoys you, be annoyed.
Honestly, Impex and a User's database are slightly different to objecting to using .zip as the way of uploading your hack/plugin/extension to a hack thread ;)

Satan

Guest190829

07-13-2005, 02:26 AM

Where's the off button on this thread...it's just zipping files >_<

tamarian

07-13-2005, 02:59 AM

Honestly, Impex and a User's database are slightly different to objecting to using .zip as the way of uploading your hack/plugin/extension to a hack thread ;)

It depends on the objective and the reason(s). Some scenarios say it is, some say it isn't. If it's just for the new hack database format, and for some reason that database cannot list anything but zip files, then you'd be right, and I'd be wrong. But that reason would not warrant such secrecy and fear of disclosure.

twoseven

07-13-2005, 04:03 AM

do you visit any other forums? do the admins/staff run all changes of said forum through the people? not all forums do and i shouldnt expect this to be any different. even though this is a hacks community it isnt a public forum just as vb is viewable source not gnu. they can discuss what you said in private as all the same arguments have been done most likly.
if your really offened by this you could always release your hacks elsewhere. i know of several other sites that allow for this.

Tony G

07-13-2005, 04:57 AM

Our aim isn't to have people stop releasing their hacks here over a bitter argument about zipping up files when releasing mods.

It is not even a rule. Rules are placed for actions that you can take, but should not. And if you do not follow those rules, you accept to pay the consequences.

Uplaoding txt or xml or php is no longer possible. It's gone. For hacks, or for normal posts. You cannot do it even if you want to. So a rule for this does not make any sense.

Had it been a rule, it would go something like this "Do not upload large files unless they are compressed as a zip file. If you repeatedly upload large files (larger than 10 kb) without zipping, then ..... "

So that would be a rule.

Oh no, vB.org are making you follow rules? What kind of forum makes you follow rules? I thought they were there just to look good.

Chris M

07-13-2005, 08:50 AM

Our aim isn't to have people stop releasing their hacks here over a bitter argument about zipping up files when releasing mods.

Oh no, vB.org are making you follow rules? What kind of forum makes you follow rules? I thought they were there just to look good.
ROFLMFAO :p

I'd imagine it is to make a common file format for the Hack Database, and also to allow users to download all the files in one .zip file so they get all the information they need (assuming the hack author zips up all the files :p) in one place, allowing for less trouble distinguishing the instructions and also allowing them to place all the files within a folder structure somewhere or whatever so they know what hacks they have installed ;)

Satan

Dean C

07-13-2005, 09:02 AM

I think a good solution for everyone would be to have it automatically bundle the zip files, it's very possible and not hard to do at all :)

tamarian

07-13-2005, 09:11 AM

do you visit any other forums? do the admins/staff run all changes of said forum through the people? not all forums do and i shouldnt expect this to be any different.

It's not the same. You and I don't come here to chat and post only. The main purpose of vb.org is to serve as a central point for release software modifications, the work of many authors.

You are entitled to suggest that authors should have no say about their work, I just think it's wrong, and the more it's done, the more it will reduce the quality of work being released.

even though this is a hacks community it isnt a public forum just as vb is viewable source not gnu. they can discuss what you said in private as all the same arguments have been done most likly..

Not sure what GNU has to do with this.

Oh no, vB.org are making you follow rules? What kind of forum makes you follow rules? I thought they were there just to look good.

So why be so secretive to hide the reason for such a "rule" change?

Forum mods don't usually have to go in these circles trying to justify why the rules are being changed, yet can't say why, then try different reasons, like bandwith, yeah, that's the ticket.

Erwin

07-15-2005, 06:55 AM

I am still amazed that this discussion is still going on - people, all we are asking is that you zip up files before attaching them - this is a download site - zipping up the downloads is a reasonable request.

I do note that the whole debate is fueled only by a small minority of members.

Bear in mind that things like this are always under review and such requirements may change when the needs of the site changes - if so, we will notify the members.

I am happy to discuss this further via PM.

What I'll do is split this thread up so that the discussion occurs in the Site Feedback forum.

Erwin

07-15-2005, 07:03 AM

Thread split and moved. :)

Feel free to keep discussing.

Erwin

07-15-2005, 07:12 AM

I do want to add that if lots of hack authors start complaining that zipping up attachments is too much of an inconvenience and that it really is a huge problem, then obviously we will review the need to do it. I do not want to appear that we are not listening to feedback. However, it does appear that most hack authors don't really care and would not mind zipping up attachments. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

Paul M

07-15-2005, 07:22 AM

Thread split and moved. :)

Feel free to keep discussing.There seems little point really - as your next post seems to make it clear that if only a "minority" express a view [care] then you aren't going to review anything. :)

Revan

07-15-2005, 08:17 AM

Marco van Herwaarden

07-15-2005, 09:00 AM

I don't mind zipping up hacks, even if it's only 1 file. When dloading a hack, however, unzipping 1 file is hassle.
I'd prefer it if you could allow an un-zipped hack to be released if it only contained 1 file (install instructions included).
I understand what you mean, although i don't agree in every situation.

What i do myself for a hack is adding the version number to the zipped name, while the hackfile itself stay with one name. Example:

My Hack v1.00.zip
-->myhack.php

My Hack v1.01.zip
-->myhack.php

This makes it easier to keep multiple versions, without changing the file names.

Also you can put in the directory structure if you are using zip-files. I see a lot less mistakes if you zip your files relative to the forumhome directory, then to instruct to upload to a specific directory.

The above are all arguments that have been used in our discussion before we started the zip-file request.

In the end we are trying to improve things, and if something doesn't work out as we expected, we can always review it, and make adjustments, or turn things back.

Erwin

07-15-2005, 10:35 AM

There seems little point really - as your next post seems to make it clear that if only a "minority" express a view [care] then you aren't going to review anything. :)

That may be the case, but that doesn't mean we should close this thread and stop further discussion. :) I moved this discussion out of Announcements as such discussions belong here rather than there.

Chris M

07-15-2005, 11:17 AM

Agreed Marco ;)

But I also agree with what Paul M says - We should re-allow .txt files for single instruction files;)

Satan

tamarian

07-15-2005, 11:20 AM

I am still amazed that this discussion is still going on - people, all we are asking is that you zip up files before attaching them - this is a download site - zipping up the downloads is a reasonable request.

Not really. I've already been zipping up my multiple-file hacks before this started. It is a download site, but a download site running gzip by default, so zipping files is redundant.

Vb.org is not really "asking", you disabled the possibility of uploading anything other than zip files, so the request doesn't make any sense.

The outrage of some developers (minority?) is due to forcing zips for single files, even for posts that are not hacks.

The outrage of another minority who speculate on the real motive (maybe just me), is that you are penalizing the many for the sins of the few. This is the case here, and is the case for disabling the who installed this hack feature. This an alarming trend, and can only get worse.

The more you put the squeeze on authors and make things less pleasant, with less tools, less say, plus a bit of suspicion, you grow a sense of "us" and "them" on this forum, you'd get less motivation, less interest and less quality of future releases. There's no real winners in this scenaro, not even Jelsoft.

Erwin

07-15-2005, 10:53 PM

We are discussing this matter (as in vB.org staff, vB.com staff and Jelsoft) so please give us some time to reach a resolution.

In the meantime, I am closing this thread - not because I want to stifle further discussion but because I understand (truly I do) the concerns of the members and will bring up their concerns with relevant people.

Thank you for your patience, and again, my PM box and the PM box of staff are open. My apologies if any inconvenience has been caused in the meantime. We hope to reach a resolution soon.

Erwin

07-16-2005, 04:25 AM

UPDATE: If you have multiple files, please ZIP them up. But if it's one file, for the moment, you can upload it as TXT, XML or PHP, without zipping. :)

Thread re-opened.

Link14716

07-16-2005, 04:28 AM

UPDATE: If you have multiple files, please ZIP them up. But if it's one file, for the moment, you can upload it as TXT, XML or PHP, without zipping. :)

Thread re-opened.

That makes a bit more sense. https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2011/01/19.gif

Paul M

07-16-2005, 05:44 AM

A sensible choice indeed. :)

Tony G

07-16-2005, 05:55 AM

Now we can all make up and stop arguing? ;)

Guest190829

07-16-2005, 07:12 AM

Yay, thank you Erwin, for stopping the havoc. :bunny:

^^ that smilie isn't used much...

tamarian

07-16-2005, 07:26 AM

Thanks Erwin, et al. :up:

Paul M

07-16-2005, 03:38 PM

Now we can all make up and stop arguing? ;)Outside, now ...... ;)

kooks47

10-10-2005, 09:56 PM

awesome man... nice job

Chris M

10-10-2005, 10:31 PM

kooks47,

You are currently showing up as unlicensed. To be able to download hacks and/or receive support here at vBulletin.org, we ask you to please click here (http://members.vbulletin.com/membersupport_priority.php) (vB-germany users click here (http://members.vbulletin-germany.com/membersupport_priority.php)) and enter your email address, to show us that you are licensed.

You will need to use your customer number and password (which will be in the email you got when you paid for your license) to access that page. Please note that your email is case sensitive. The update of your account may take up to one hour.

Thank you.

Paul M

10-10-2005, 10:57 PM

Oh god, don't you start spouting that annoying message everywhere as well ......

peterska2

10-10-2005, 10:58 PM

ROFL @ Paul!

Chris M

10-10-2005, 11:24 PM

Paul M,

You are currently showing up as aggrivated. To be able to calm down and/or relieve stress here at vBulletin.org, we ask you to please click here (http://www.freeonlinegames.com/) (vB-germany users click here (http://www.freeonlinegames.com/)) and enter your email address, to show us that you are sane.

You will need to use your brains and co-ordination skills (which will challenge you and prove to be difficult to find) to access the stress relief program page. Please note that this site is addictive. The relief of your stress may take up to one hour.

Thank you.

Gio~Logist

10-10-2005, 11:26 PM

peterska2

10-10-2005, 11:36 PM

ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!

Now that's just made my night!

Paul M

10-11-2005, 03:14 AM

/me slaps Chris with a VERY large fish. :banana: :bunny:

Tony G

10-11-2005, 05:30 AM

Hahahaha.

Ahhh I love the unlicensed message, plz never change. <3

Xenon

10-11-2005, 10:49 AM

nice one Chris ;)

TyleR

10-11-2005, 01:14 PM