I'm concerned that you're allowing users to commit fraud against other users

[Leppard]

A while back I posted a request for help to install some hacks on my site. I was contacted via PM on your site by insanctus. He said he'd do all things I needed done for $70 with $35 to be paid up front to get started.

I Pay Pal'd him the money...then heard nothing back from him. I've PM'd him, emailed him etc etc to no avail.

I then contacted Pay Pal to ask for my money back. Here's there response.

"Case ID: PP-046-972-077
Transaction Date: Aug. 27, 2004
Transaction Amount: -$35.00 USD
Seller's Email: admin@sanguin.net
Seller's Name: Robert Wiley

Unfortunately, PayPal was not able to resolve this dispute because the item purchased was virtual or intangible. result, we have not taken any
action against either account at this time. However, this complaint has
been noted in the seller's record for future reference.

Thank you for your cooperation with our investigation.

Sincerely,
Zdenek
Protection Services Department"

After I replied to my request that he took my money and ran(Post located here: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=68789 ) I received multiply IM's from people stating that he's committed fraud against other members here as well. I was shocked!

How can you guys let this guy still have access to the forums, and thereby continue to Defraud YOUR customers? What's going on here?

You need to remove these parasites from being able to access your site and forums and stop allowing them the means to defraud your customers.

Bottom line here is. You need to look out for your customers.

Warning: Do NOT hire insanctus!

[Xenon]

We are currently investigating Insanctus, as we got several complaints about him right now.

BUT: We are not responsible for any Service Requests. You always have to find out information about the one doing the job by yourself. We just provide the possibility to find Coders who would be able to help on your request. But it is not a Service by vb.org to fulfill any requests, and also it's not our responsibility to decide who's right or who's wrong.

The contract between a requester and a coder is done by those two users, and not by any official vb.org member or Jelsoft employee.

But as said about your special Coder Insanctus: we have to look at him, as we already got several reports now..

[Leppard]

I agree, you are not resposible for any Service Requests. You are giving him the means to defraud your customers, though, by allowing him access to the requests section.

What will be the result of the investigation once you find out he's using your site to find victims?

Thanks for the reply.

[Xenon]

Sorry, i don't want to give out such informations publically.

We're currently deciding behind the scenes what to do, and i assume you'll see the result soon.
That's all i can say for now.

[filburt1]

As Xenon said, we are discussing the matter. In addition to a possible disciplinary action against the person in question, the issue has been raised of allowing users to post comments about each other and that they could be viewed publicly.

In the future, I strongly suggest you only pay once a product has been delivered. Quite lame that PayPal does not allow protection for software-based transactions, though.

If it is very much upset you and many other people, you could consider a class-action lawsuit. You would likely lose money than make it back, but your choice.

[Leppard]

Thanks for the replies. I hope this helps other members as well.

[amykhar]

I would dearly love to see a feedback system hacked in here. If I were designing on the fly, I wouldn't make people reply to service requests via PM. I would make them reply in the thread, but make the replies invisible to everyone except admins, mods, and the thread poster.

Then, when the thread poster chooses the service provider, they would mark the provider, sort of like clicking the install button. Then, if the service provider agrees to provide the service, he would click a similar button to indicate so.

Then, when the job is finished and money has changed hands, feedback would be left. Feedback could only be left by people who have "contracted" with one another, but would be visible to all.

Example feedback would be, member x agreed to do this work, and accepted money but never provided the code.

Or, member x did a great job on my hack and charged me a great price.

Or, member Y asked me to code this hack and I did so, but was never paid for my work.

Or, member Y paid me promptly for my work.

Feedback could be challenged to the admins, and cleared if necessary (in rare cases)

But, that's just a suggestion. I speak for me alone. ;)

Amy

[nexialys]

as suggested many times, by many coders and clients, i will suggest again to install the Trader Rating system... if the results are not positive, just delete it.. but for my opinion, i think it worth the try, instead of debating this months and months again...

[Nails]

Hi,
I have ran across things like this in the past with a person, I tracked the guy down by digging into emails and tracking down webpages the guy had and did a domain lookup and got his phone number and address, I then proceeded to file a report with the local law enforcment here in town and then they exposed the file to the guys home town law enforcment, a few weeks later I recieved my money back and the guy ended up in jail from a recent warrent for his arrest for frauding people in the past.

[dndog]

Look, there are a couple of things you have to know before hiring a coder:

1. Pay after the hack has been installed and thoroughly tested on your forum. He requests money up front? Don't give into that crap! There are many coders that accept money after the hack has been completed, installed, and tested for about a week.

2. Buy from someone reputable. Does the person you are hiring have a website which lists their clients and what they have done? Do they have a resume of some sort?

3. Consider your price range. Do you have plenty of money overflowing your pockets? In that case, I'd probably consider the vbMechanic (www.vbmechanic.com), where you will get a professional job done. His job is making professional vBulletin hacks!

Hope that helps! ;)

[Seekers]

Call your local FBI office. They take internet fraud very seriously. I personally have experienced a similiar event and he now rots in jail. They will find him easily and take the appropriate actions. People think they are hidden by their monikers but they fail to realize the NSA and FBI can trace almost anyone to their exact location.

Good luck and I hope you get this jerk. No room for these type of people. BTW if this is across state lines, it is a felony offense and he won't be too happy when they find him.

[rebelsrock06]

Call your local FBI office. They take internet fraud very seriously. I personally have experienced a similiar event and he now rots in jail. They will find him easily and take the appropriate actions. People think they are hidden by their monikers but they fail to realize the NSA and FBI can trace almost anyone to their exact location.

Good luck and I hope you get this jerk. No room for these type of people. BTW if this is across state lines, it is a felony offense and he won't be too happy when they find him.
LOL lets sic all the law on them if its international lets call interpol

but in all reality i hope you get your money back, you likey wont but i do wish that it works out for you

[P.Jackson]

and thank you for taking your time to report this to the whole vbulletin community :) and hope youe recieve either the work done or money back but i guess you would want the money back now

[Loon]

If he's done this to several people here, get them all if possibile to file a complaint with paypal, although they wont help you with "virtual" goods normally, if there's a few complaints they will look at it further, usually lock the persons account in the meantime and you could well get your money back.

[Xenon]

Insanctus replied to the thread in the lounge.

As he's back now try to resolve this privatelly now.
I'll close this thread then. You can still contact us in pravate, if there are more problems regarding that issue, but please always keep in mind: We are no court, we cannot decide who's right and who's wrong, so unless there are users who systematically fraud users of vb.org we cannot do much on these issues.