[suggestion] Service Requests

[sabret00the]

ok heres my suggestion, i beleive that their are far too many lurkers on here who are only interested in service requests and while this isn't exactly illegal i beleive that profitting from the site in such a way is wrong, if you're gonna make money on the side is one thing, but if your main purpose for being here is money then you should be gone. i think the best option would be for it to become an elistest zone.

i.e. if you've released over XX amount of hacks in XX months then you can see the threads inside "Service Requests" and if you're requesting a service then you can see only your own thread (i imagine that works in the same way as the "Style Submissions" forum. (Rose and NTLDR could mod it)

While this would call for great moderation of the submission forums i.e. craply made hacks should be removed (along with unsupported hacks maybe) it would instill a greater community spirit if even people were releasing hacks so they could get to that point of profit.

I think this whole XX hacks over XX months should extend to private messages as well, i.e. if hotwords regarding requests like "cost", "charge", "paypal", "dollars", etc all resulted in an error then theired be less people profiting from only looking out for number one.

PS. i think all of this should extend to moderators as well as i know that a most of the able mods on this site only do service requests now and they should also give a little back in terms of what they got elected for.

anyways please contemplate my suggestion, i beleive it would help a hell of a lot around here and you'd be likely to see alot more supporting of hacks and all round forum activity.

[filburt1]

I disagree. There are many experienced coders who do not see the logic in releasing hacks for nothing when people want a paid product.

[sabret00the]

if i was making money from making paid hacks, i'd probably have the same view, but if you look into non-paid hack requests, they hardly get answered these days, it should be a privilidge to get to make money via vb.org and a privilidge that only people giving back to the community get to have.

i think theirs nothing wrong with making it a privilidge to be honest, it should be about something on the side, and experienced coders who can't see why they should give back to the community for free don't need to be here, they can set up their own site and make money off of that.

[Princeton]

I agree.
If a member does not give to the community they should not prosper from the communty.

The community should award individuals who give back.

[sabret00the]

glad to see it's not just me who thinks that :)

[Boofo]

You all know how I feel about paid hacks. I think giving back to the community who taught alot of these coders the coding skills they use to make money is only right before they are allowed to prosper from it. Especially when some of those paid hacks use code that the coders get help making from this site.

[amykhar]

Just a note, Bob. Not everybody who learned how to code learned at vb.org. Some of us have college degrees ;) (Note, I have no vested interest because I do not respond to paid requests in the services forum. I don't have the time to ensure work would be done promptly)

I think that people hiring hackers from the service requests forum would be wise to look around the community for examples of the coder's work before they make the leap. I am also highly in favor of using the reputation system that's built into version 3.

I don't think there should be a minimum number of hacks released or posts required. I think buyers of the services should be allowed to see and choose from ALL potential candidates.

Amy

[Boofo]

Ah, but is your degree in vBulletin coding? ;)

[infernonet]

Well i think as long as these people pay for there vb licenses they are ok :P, people have to make a living if you have the skill use it :P

[vbmechanic]

As someone who started their business through the Service Requests forum, I think your motives are good and valid, but the method suggested is not enforceable. It's like using post count to determine member status or any other feature-- once aware of the requirement, people will make junk posts just like they will make junk hacks to meet the limit.

I no longer use the forum as my client list is long enough, but I don't think something like this would work. Amykhar has a good point that a client should have the option to choose from all qualified applicants. My list of public hacks is short but my clients would attest that I'm quick and knowledgable. I also do answer some Requests when I have time (remember a few days ago ST? hehe) but as I do this professionally, I simply don't have much time available for free work.

Also, I think this sort of motion would be easier to support if the original software were free. Since vBulletin actually costs to download and use, there isn't the spirit of the GPL here as there might be with phpBB or another free package.

While it's all well and good to want the community to grow for free -- some people do use vBulletin support and modification and skinning to make a living. No reason to slight these people as it is a necessary service.. where else do you get quality support when you can't wait and Jelsoft won't help your hacked site?

[vbmechanic]

PS. I would be more than happy to support and give back to this site through advertising dollars if it were allowed.

[amykhar]

Ideally, Jelsoft would do something along the lines of Webhosting Talk. On that site, hosts who wish to have access to hosting requests have paid for the privilege. The user fills out a form, and then any interested web host responds via email.

Also, Jelsoft would accept paid adds for addons such as photopost, and no discussion about paid products would be allowed here period. I'm all for coders making money, but am not crazy about coders pimping their wares whereever conversation even hints at something they sell.

Amy

[Dean C]

I think the original suggestion of releasing x hacks to gain access to service requests is a good idea actually. A very good idea :)

[VBDev]

I think it could be a good thing too :)

Boofo, yes we learn coding for vBulletin thanks to other hacks and coz we are interested in it.

If others don't like it or don't want to learn it (it requires really a lot of time to know very good vbulletin), if thay propose to pay for sthg, why should we refuse ?

In my opinion, each work should have to be paid even if we do and distribute free hacks

I (Grog, but Mtor agrees with me), some of Services requested here are very special hack which are not usefull for a lot of boards or that we don't want to do for free

Wa are 2 poor students (:p) and we are happy to find some paid works here now and then.
I think that as suggested by sabret00th, this system could be a good one to thank hackers who work for nothing here (even not a thank from some members ..... most of the time)

[Boofo]

Grog, I can see where you are coming from on here. The ones I am talking about are the ones who do nothing but (or mostly) paid hacks after learning from here. Those are the ones that get to me. A free vBulletin coding education and a slap in the face to the ones who gave it to them.

[Floris]

Grog, I can see where you are coming from on here. The ones I am talking about are the ones who do nothing but (or mostly) paid hacks after learning from here. Those are the ones that get to me. A free vBulletin coding education and a slap in the face to the ones who gave it to them.
I personally disagree with having a service request section at all on a commercial web site like this is (as being an official sister site from Jelsoft). It only has potential to turn this into a marketplace with higher risk of fraud and disputes between members etc. Unwanted PM's and Emails of services and what else might be possible (regardless of set rules).

I also think this is a call that Jelsoft has to make as they are the overseeing company on this site - rather then the staff or me or you.

That is just how I personally think/feel about this. :) (as an end-user)

[Boofo]

Floris, I said I *understood* his point of view, I never said I agreed with it. I have no time foir ANY paid hacks. Never have and never will. Not here, anyway. I, myself, would go without a hack before I would ever pay 1 red cent for it. And I think offering paid hacks is just another way to milk a newbie. It's not right. And that's how I feel about it. ;)

[Floris]

I just clicked a random quick reply :) vBorg has quote checked by default, something I am not used to. It wasn't directed at you - it was a reply to the topic.

[noppid]

It will never work, too many ideas are closed to the ownership thought. You think the infighting is bad now, wait till you see 10 versions of every hack because some folks are releasing to meet a quota.

This is the most paramount issue here, it'll be interesting to see how things are as people start to post again in this new environment.

The first mod that see's a hack like theirs will squash it and the crap will start again.

[sabret00the]

Wa are 2 poor students (:p) and we are happy to find some paid works here now and then.
I think that as suggested by sabret00th, this system could be a good one to thank hackers who work for nothing here (even not a thank from some members ..... most of the time)thank you dean and grog.

it's really in the interest of the ones who can't hack, i mean you go thru the service requests forum and you see some stuff that people used to make for free, i mean if it weren't for the fact that zach and link hooked up we'd be most likely to see what 10-20 hack requests for a store. personally i use hack requests when i think something is massive (at which point i'll say you can sell it), i want something exclusive or something i want but feel people need motivation to make it (and i'll request it gets released free).

a hack passport isn't alot to ask and as for noppids idea that it would have lots of people making the same thing, i think you're wrong, you always get people who can make hacks from the requests forum if ideas are short and not to many hacks like working on the same thing anyway :)

[Dean C]

I can't see what the big deal is though. I mean we give members the opportunity to profit in some way from this site whereas .com doesn't, why not ask a little to give back to the community :)

[Boofo]

I just clicked a random quick reply :) vBorg has quote checked by default, something I am not used to. It wasn't directed at you - it was a reply to the topic.

Oops! Sorry. ;)

[noppid]

Biggest problem I see is once you make the hackers that are allowed to get business from the requests forum a "group" we're right back to that club mentality that so sucks here and is suposed to be being fixed, or at least I thought that was part of the fix.

[Boofo]

Biggest problem I see is once you make the hackers that are allowed to get business from the requests forum a "group" we're right back to that club mentality that so sucks here and is suposed to be being fixed, or at least I thought that was part of the fix.

YES!!! That is the exact point I have been trying to make in this whole thing. Thank you, noppid, for saying it better than I apparently could. ;)

[sabret00the]

Biggest problem I see is once you make the hackers that are allowed to get business from the requests forum a "group" we're right back to that club mentality that so sucks here and is suposed to be being fixed, or at least I thought that was part of the fix.
how so, how would "that group" know who else was in the group, it just rewards active hackers, allowing the user who's requesting work to get the best hardest workers making hacks for them.

[Dean C]

Another problem I came up with last night is design requests, a lot of designers can't code so that would be unfair too.

[noppid]

how so, how would "that group" know who else was in the group, it just rewards active hackers, allowing the user who's requesting work to get the best hardest workers making hacks for them.

So who polices this elite group that will choose these elite programmers?

Money corrupts. It's all or nothing to be fair.

Yeah, let's have a secret group of elite programmers chosen by the elite mods. That will raise the confidence level of users. That's got to be the worst direction that could be taken in light of past experience. It's a club mentality, it won't work.

[Zachery]

So who polices this elite group that will choose these elite programmers?

Money corrupts. It's all or nothing to be fair.

Yeah, let's have a secret group of elite programmers chosen by the elite mods. That will raise the confidence level of users. That's got to be the worst direction that could be taken in light of past experience. It's a club mentality, it won't work.
Service requetss come in quite a few differnt kinds, Design, instaltion, and hacks.

I dont think its bad to request a design or an instaltion or hacks for that matter, its up to the end user to decide, if they didnt do it here, they would do it on another site.

So in the end i think its fine.

[Boofo]

So who polices this elite group that will choose these elite programmers?

Money corrupts. It's all or nothing to be fair.

Yeah, let's have a secret group of elite programmers chosen by the elite mods. That will raise the confidence level of users. That's got to be the worst direction that could be taken in light of past experience. It's a club mentality, it won't work.

Once again, YES! I agree with everything you've said so far. Money IS the root of all evil especially when it comes to hacks. You are right on! Give'em hell, my friend. I got your back. ;)

[sabret00the]

money isn't the root of evil that's us, but still as i say removing it is punishing the user, we need a safe environment to get stuff vB related done, whether it be exclusively or whether we just feel the person needs paying for it.

[noppid]

Service requetss come in quite a few differnt kinds, Design, instaltion, and hacks.

I dont think its bad to request a design or an instaltion or hacks for that matter, its up to the end user to decide, if they didnt do it here, they would do it on another site.

So in the end i think its fine.

I don't quite understand which side of this debate you are agreeing with.

Let's start the bidding.

I've wrote some code. I've helped some people. I've made Hundreds of dollars hacking vB. I've done more the a handful of probono requests to help folks in trouble with no money but a forum and passion. I always question authority. I've even used two lines of code from someone else's hack! OMG :ermm:

Can I answer requests in the requests forum under your proposed policy? What if I want to do a request for free?

[noppid]

I also submt that based on this ...

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=496674#post496674

Not all the mods that publish code here are qualified to evaluate code.

Now it's off my chest. Thanks

[Zachery]

I don't quite understand which side of this debate you are agreeing with.

Let's start the bidding.

I've wrote some code. I've helped some people. I've made Hundreds of dollars hacking vB. I've done more the a handful of probono requests to help folks in trouble with no money but a forum and passion. I always question authority. I've even used two lines of code from someone else's hack! OMG :ermm:

Can I answer requests in the requests forum under your proposed policy? What if I want to do a request for free?
Im really on either side, but im going to lean more towards how it is.

[sabret00the]

Can I answer requests in the requests forum under your proposed policy? What if I want to do a request for free?for what i'm proposing more service requests would be answered as hackers work hard to get their quota in to view what they can make money off of.

[Zachery]

That makes little to no sense, there are some users who release lots of small hacks, or they would continue to release lots of small hacks wiht out giving support just to meet the quota to be able to give service requests OR the forum would totaly die all together.

[sabret00the]

That makes little to no sense, there are some users who release lots of small hacks, or they would continue to release lots of small hacks wiht out giving support just to meet the quota to be able to give service requests OR the forum would totaly die all together.
well if it was less automated and done more so on reputation then would it work better?

[Dean C]

That makes little to no sense, there are some users who release lots of small hacks, or they would continue to release lots of small hacks wiht out giving support just to meet the quota to be able to give service requests OR the forum would totaly die all together.

It does make sense... they'll be released instead of someone charging $5 for it.... I'm not saying everyone does this but there are those that charge even for the smallest thing in the real world.

[Princeton]

The bottom line is that "active" members* should be the ones who benefit from vb.org.
If a member does not participate (release hacks/articles/provide help/stay active), they should not be able to enter/read the Service Request area and other areas which may benefit them (monetarily).

The idea is to give some form of "benefit" to active users.
*Note: An "active" member is not necessarily one who provides hacks.

There is no need for someone or a group to oversee such a project. Make the whole system automatic. Base the system on reputation, and/or # of hacks, and/or "last visit", and/or articles (threads published within a specific forum).

I would also recommend a system setup for moderators (staff). They should benefit the most since they agree to voluteer and help vb members.

A system such as the above would help promote new hacks, articles, participation from members, and "moderating" from staff.

---------------
Just a note, Bob. Not everybody who learned how to code learned at vb.org. Some of us have college degrees ;) (Note, I have no vested interest because I do not respond to paid requests in the services forum. I don't have the time to ensure work would be done promptly) I agree ... some of us do have college degrees.

[noppid]

We're wasting our time here apparently. Not one mod has had the balls to step up and say sorry, but things are changing and here's how.

Where's Wayne? Please don't say too busy. If that's the case someone else that can give this place the time it needs should be in charge. I think it's obvious he's spread too thin.

What a joke!

[Wayne Luke]

We're wasting our time here apparently. Not one mod has had the balls to step up and say sorry, but things are changing and here's how.

Where's Wayne? Please don't say too busy. If that's the case someone else that can give this place the time it needs should be in charge if so.

What a joke!
I am here, you will see more detailed posts on changes in the upcoming weeks. Right now we have been working behind the scenes to get coordinated.

[noppid]

I am here, you will see more detailed posts on changes in the upcoming weeks. Right now we have been working behind the scenes to get coordinated.

I was wondering what kind of comment it would take to get a reaction.

It seems like the "action" is taking it's time happening.

[sabret00the]

t'is frustrating, as it seems a result of the recent changes we're not unable to get administrative responses, i hope the wait is worth it :rolleyes:

[Dean C]

noppid - for changes to happen it takes discussion and agreement behind the scenes. Right now the administration are extremely busy and I know stefan has just finished his exams. Please bare with us :)

[noppid]

noppid - for changes to happen it takes discussion and agreement behind the scenes. Right now the administration are extremely busy and I know stefan has just finished his exams. Please bare with us :)

Thanks Dean. We're looking forward to any news.

[Xenon]

Sorry, i also got ill in the last week.
But there has been a chat on that situation already.

We have not yet come to a final descision, but we are aware of this thread of course, and are currently looking for the best way :)

[sabret00the]

that's good to hear :)

[sabret00the]

Sorry, i also got ill in the last week.
But there has been a chat on that situation already.

We have not yet come to a final descision, but we are aware of this thread of course, and are currently looking for the best way :)
not to be a point but how long does something like this take to get discussed?

[Xenon]

This weekend we have another chat, i think it will be resolved then.

i cannot say for sure, as nearly everyone in the staff has a different opinion on that topic ;)

[sabret00the]

thanks for the update.

[Logikos]

Money IS the root of all evil
Money is the root of all evil, the power of the money is. ;)

[Xenon]

Ok, actual status:
Right now we won't change the way the SR Forum is.

But on the longer way there will be changes, but these changes will go in conclusion with other changes on other Jelsoft sites as well.
I won't say more, nor an ETA, but right now, the system of Service Requests will stay as it is.

[sabret00the]

that sucks, pre-empting this change has led to alot more activity in the HR forums :(