VB3 Integrated Multi-Portal - Any Interest?

[we_scooter]

I guess u could spare some of ur time to improve this " it sounds WOOOOOOOOW"
go on its great work..

[FASherman]

First, let me answer the obvious question. What is the difference between a portal and a multi-portal...

The best way to explain it is with a demonstration. View the following links:

http://portal.daily-web.info/index.php?portal=sports
http://portal.daily-web.info/index.php?portal=national
http://portal.daily-web.info/index.php?portal=entertainment

Notice the way the content on the page changes? Polls and active discussions get pulled out of different forums. The newsfeeds and news articles change, etc.

This is what I mean by a multi-portal. I've had this one running since VB3 Beta 3.

The astute among you will see that this is based on phpNuke. In fact, it *IS* phpNuke+. I made no code changes to the base Nuke code. Why is this important?

This is personal opinion. There are some good, but not great, VB3 portals. The problem with them is they are used by a limited community.

Love it or hate it, phpNuke is used by a large community. There are many, many blocks and modules available. Loan ammortizations, sports league reporting modules, weather, stock portfolios, download managers, etc. The librabry of blocks and modules available for phpNuke is more extensive that all the add-ons available for all of the VB3 portals put together.

I have taken this several steps even further.

I can't wait on Jelsoft to create a CMS. I needed on yesterday. If you followed the links, you've seen I've also integrated pMachine Pro CMS. Granted, this one isn't free, but neither will Jelsoft's be free. Actually, I'm looking at optional instructions for using the Nuke Stories module and/or pMachine Free.

You might have noticed that I have a very basic HAMWeather integration too. I will integrate this a little tighter over the next few weeks.

BTW, the dropdown menu on my portal and HAMWeather pages - and the colors - predate the VB3 default style. You can imagine that I was a little disappointed to see the long awaited style wasn't much different than what I aleady had!

I do have a photopost block as well for those running photopost.

Now, on to the main question...

How much interest is there in a portal like this, including the optional integrations?
Because it involves hacking far more than VB3, there is no way I could release it here - at least I don't think I could. It would require a dedicated site.

Before I go through that level of effort, I want to know that there is a need for the portal, which will probably by called VB-MulitNuke.

Reply here and let me know. A simple reply like "I'd want it" or "yes" will do. The number of replies will determine how far (and fast) I pursue this.

Thanks for your time.

[Boofo]

I'd definately be interested in this. Can you pm me on what it is going to cost?

[FASherman]

I can answer the cost thing openly. I'm not looking to make any money off of the project. I'm doing it because I need it. I'd release it here, but I can't because it involves much more that VB code.

If folks were willing to pay a one-time "membership fee" - I hate that because it sounds like I'm trying to gouge $$$ - of maybe $5 or $10 just to help offset the cost of the site, that would be enough for me.

[Konk]

I just recently purchased vBulletin with the v3 Gold and have been evaluating portals. I would be very intersted in investigating the possibilites of a hack such as this. Paypal donations might be more reasonable than an upfront fee for a hack of this nature but not unreasonable.

[Dean C]

Whilst you're not in it to make any money other than to cover your server costs I highly doubt the phpnuke developers would want you using their code and then effectively selling it on. Not to rain on your parade but that's how these things work on the internet - you'd have to contact them and all the other integrations you've made and ask permission. :)

[lasto]

top portal and something i would`nt mind paying for - infact cause it use phpnuke etc i would`nt pay for the hack but i would pay for the privledge of using such a hack :)

so a payment for your time in installing it would certainly offset any fee for your server and keep u out of trouble with phpnuke :)

Have to say its the best portal ive seen for a vb board

[AlexanderT]

Whilst you're not in it to make any money other than to cover your server costs I highly doubt the phpnuke developers would want you using their code and then effectively selling it on. Not to rain on your parade but that's how these things work on the internet - you'd have to contact them and all the other integrations you've made and ask permission. :)
He could do something like http://phpportal.com did... a $20/year membership fee... and not charge directly for the product.

[Brad]

I like the idea, but I will not mess with anything based on the nuke core.

[13th_Disciple]

FASherman.. there maybe something that already exists along the lines of what you are talking about.. but it is along the same scale as Vignette.. http://www.typo3.org

I have been having a look at that particular CMS over the past couple of weeks.. it is extremely complex and not for the average joe, though.. which is one of the reasons i like it.. i also like it because it has the ability to do true content management.. and i need that also in a grand scale for a project i am about to embark on..

if you plan on doing something like this, i would be interested.. if you need some help or anything, just let me know.. be glad to lend a hand doing whatever i can for you..

[FASherman]

Whilst you're not in it to make any money other than to cover your server costs I highly doubt the phpnuke developers would want you using their code and then effectively selling it on. Not to rain on your parade but that's how these things work on the internet - you'd have to contact them and all the other integrations you've made and ask permission. :)

PHPNuke is available under the GNU GPL. Which means I am free to distribute it and/or derivative works. Since PHPNuke is free, whatever code I come up with based on it must also be free.

Read the GNU GPL here. (http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html)

Based on this license, I am free to redistribute a version of PHPNuke, modified to work with VB3 and as a multi-portal rather than a free one. It is okay to charge user to cover costs, though I'm not really sure I even intend to do that. Free is one of my favorite words.

One can even charge for maintenance of their own unique code.

Anyway, the bottom line is nothing about PHPNuke's license would keep this project from going forward.

At any rate, I think I've pretty much decided to release it free when it is done. I will create a forum on my existing site for support short term. I'll happily accept donations towards a second VB3 license at which point I'll set up a dedicated support site.

But free seems to be the way to go. Besides, if its free, more people will use it and will help to make it even better.

[FASherman]

I like the idea, but I will not mess with anything based on the nuke core.

I agree. I'm not going to change the nuke core at all.

[13th_Disciple]

I think brad means he won't use anything based on the nuke core..

[FASherman]

Just to drop everyone a line on the progress...

http://devsite.daily-web.info/

I have been removing all hard links in my original code, making everything as "drop-in" as possible, and documenting the Nuke theme so that those with VB3 custom themes can easily adapt them to phpNuke as well. I want to get this to as close as a no-brainer as possible: no VB3 code or template mods and two-line edits in the nuke mainfile.php for the portal to become "VB aware".

Expect an inital release on May 3rd.

[Boofo]

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but how many queries is this going to have? ;)

[FASherman]

With all VB content blocks (side and center) active? Twelve.
Add two more to integrate HAMWeather
Add one more if using the Photopost Random Photo block.

Thats the beauty of the datastore caches. You can make one sql call to read in the entire datastore and unserialize whatever cache you need when you need it. I tend to knock around Jelsoft pretty good, but the datastore and the template conditional were pure brilliance.

[Boofo]

I use the datastore in 2 of my hacks. Yes, it is great! ;)

How many queries when the cache updates, though?

[FASherman]

I don't update the cache. A portal doesn't need up-to-second data. I let the forum manage/update the cache.

[Boofo]

Ok, but when the forum updates the cache, how many queries then? ;)

[FASherman]

Nothing extra at all.

Whenever the portal is loaded, which is each page view, one SQL query reads in the entire datastore, which I keep as a global variable accessable to all blocks and modules. So, if the cache is updated between page views, the next page view catches the change.

I just changed everything around yesterday so that updating the forum colors/backgrounds via the style manager will automatically change the portal too.

So for the majority of VB3 users that only change colors, this portal will automatically pick up their new style.

For those that have custom styles, the work will be a little more difficult, but not much more so.

For the guys that develop the style...coolness for them.

If they develop the theme as part of the VB3 style, then that will also be a valid standalone Nuke theme, giving them access to a whole new customer base.

So the guys that do themes/skins/whatever for VB3, phpBB, and IPB will soon be able to add phpNuke to the list. More customers, more money.

[Pro]

This sounds nice... May you say?

[FASherman]

Yes, it looks like mid-May, maybe sooner. I just registered the domains VB3Nuke.com, VB3Nuke.org, VB3Nuke.net and VB3Nuke.info

I got off track for three days when it became necessary to replace the multi-portal config file with a database table. Then I had to write the admin module for creating/editing/deleting portals.

After that, I got an email about assigning blocks to particular forums. I just finished editing the block table and rewriting the block admin module. I got wrapped around the axle for over half a day on what turned out to be a bug in the original Nuke code.

[thebigboss]

He could do something like http://phpportal.com did... a $20/year membership fee... and not charge directly for the product.

and still do ;)

[13th_Disciple]

vBportal/phpportal is losing a lot of folks from what I have heard.. I know I personally didn't renew my membership.. The product just didn't warrant the renewal for me..

[AlexanderT]

I paid a couple of days ago, only to see how they are doing with the current beta for vB3. I wouldn't recommend anyone to use it on a live-system ... it is really buggy still.

[FASherman]

I've been using my hacked PhpNuke since VB3 Beta 3, so I never understood what the deal was in releasing a new version there. The whole reason for this is to have something that is STILL Nuke and can used PHPNuke modules/blocks UNMODIFIED rather than something very nuke-like but can't use their modules/blocks without porting. VB3Nuke WILL be Nuke.

[Acido]

I've been using my hacked PhpNuke since VB3 Beta 3, so I never understood what the deal was in releasing a new version there. The whole reason for this is to have something that is STILL Nuke and can used PHPNuke modules/blocks UNMODIFIED rather than something very nuke-like but can't use their modules/blocks without porting. VB3Nuke WILL be Nuke.
That is what i'm looking for.

Fasherman, what version of PHP Nuke are you using now ?
I impressed with your site for a while, i'm registered there with same nickname (Acido) and i'm really impressed with your work. If i can help you with the code or beta testing, let me know how i can help you.

Best Regards ;)

[FASherman]

I'm using version 7.1 - the latest publicly available version. Once I finalize the release and document all my changes, I will try to keep pace with the latest versions.

[Dean C]

I'm going to move this to general modification discussion - it's more suited there :)

[FASherman]

You are correct. Its kind of evolved from a question to a status thing.

BTW, everything but the story module is done. That is getting a major face lift and will likely take the week.

[13th_Disciple]

ok.. so this will use nuke based modules.. so i am assuming for a second here that there is a downloads module.. a links module.. a banner management module.. a shoutbox module.. things like that.. i almost know for sure there are.. but as much as i like this idea.. i have vbindex running like a top and it works.. however, i have spoken to NTLDR about some extras i would like to see..

if he gets his next version out any time soon, i hope to see those changes in there.. but i seriously like this little deal here FAS.. i am just hesitant about too many changes at any one time on a site that users are already used to.. however, as i said, i will set this up sometime and look into it heavily once you have a RC/ BETA..

[Reeve of shinra]

I was going to use vb index but the more I see FAShermans work and site, the more I am growing to love this.

[thebigboss]

I paid a couple of days ago, only to see how they are doing with the current beta for vB3. I wouldn't recommend anyone to use it on a live-system ... it is really buggy still.

On the contrary, it is very stable and an upgrade from 2.x->3.x is to be out this week or next. It has been running live at www.vbportal.com since December and a few hundred members sites since March. I would highly recommend it. It also supports multi-portals and vbportal have a head start of having already converted a lot of the popular modules since phpnuke 4.0 days. The new vbp3 isn't based of the nuke code though and is not prone to the 150 + querys that all the nuke modules are. 15-25 querys in a heavily Content driven module and you can also have different blocks in every single module, any column, any weight and each module can also have its own skin so its possible to give each a unique look and there almost all template based to as well as an extensive set of permissions and options across the modules and usergroups. There's also a filestore module due out as an addon and a gallery, a bug-tracker and the very popular classifieds. The Computer encyclopedia is to be made available for those with no Content in the Encyclopedia of their own which is over 500KB alone. Well worth the $20 premium membership.

If your just 'dropping' unconverted nuke modules in place, they would be using whatever number of querys the module is coded with and some of them go into the hundreds on a single page. How do you propose to keep the query count down then, if your not changing the phpnuke core code ?

[AlexanderT]

thebigboss, and why didn't you say that you are part of the vBPortal team (scotsmist) :)

If you look at the hundreds of fixes that are currently posted in the vBP support forum, and since these fixes are not yet integrated in the currently downloadable Beta 1, I must say that it is anything BUT NOT STABLE.

Btw, even wajones agrees with me that vBP 3 Beta 1 is not stable enough for a live system.

vbPortal 3.0 beta 1.0 has been released to Premium Members for beta testing only, not for installation on a live web site and there will not be an upgrade script until a future release.

Some users are not listening and are installing vbPortal 3.0 on their live websites. While the majority of those that have done so haven't had any problems, there are those that have. We can not support you if you do this, your on you own... period.

Those that have not installed yet, please note that it is a "Premium Member Beta Test Only" and only to be installed for testing on a test site. NOT YOUR LIVE WEB SITE

[13th_Disciple]

vbportal is fully capable of 100 + queries.. I have seen it on my own site when I was using is.. hence, the reason I am no longer using it.. I used to like it, but found too many things left unanswered in the forums, and not enough time devoted to solid documentation.. all in all, i just found it incomplete..

there are a few things vbindex is missing, as well, imo.. but it is very stable, small enough to not require a book of documentation.. and the queries.. well.. what queries.. 13 on my front page.. maybe 14.. a base install of vbportal generated more than that, as best i remember..

[FASherman]

I just received another question via email asking me if I could force portals to have particular styles, overriding the default user style but if none is specified, go ahead and use the default style.

The short answer is yes. I can force a portal to use a particular style instead of the user default. It will work just like defining a style for a forum. If you specify one, it'll use it, otherwise, it will use the user's individual default.

For example, if I have a sports forum and I create a sports style specifically for the sports forums and subforums. I create a sports portal.

When User A views my politics forum, the portal uses his default style, liquid grey. But when he views the sports portal, it uses the sports style. When he goes to the entertainment portal, back to liquid grey.

I haven't coded this yet because I want to finish the article module. But I looked at the logic for the code and its pretty darned easy. I'll have a working example by Friday.

[FASherman]

If your just 'dropping' unconverted nuke modules in place, they would be using whatever number of querys the module is coded with and some of them go into the hundreds on a single page. How do you propose to keep the query count down then, if your not changing the phpnuke core code ?

I've given this a great deal of thought too. I'm considering releasing the PHPNuke 7.1 based version as the beta and using CPG-Nuke as the basis for the final release.

So VB3Nuke Final Version 1 would also encompass all of the CPG-Nuke improvements:

CPG Nuke Core Features

CGP-Nuke Core Acceleration
10x Speed Increase Compared to PHP-Nuke
30% Reduction in Base Code
Global Functions (that can be reused for any module) I already do this with the vBulletin info

CPG-Nuke Database Acceleration
Replaced all $dbi calls to $db
Uses 50% Fewer Database Querys
Advanced Database Query (verbose) Debugging

Advanced Security
Mister's Protector System (protector.warcenter.se)
Secured Against UNION and other Attacks
Removed WebMail for Increased Security
Selectable Security Code (shown only where and to whom you want)
Security Code is Based on Theme

i18n Intergration
International Language Support
CPG - Nuke Autodetects Languages and Sets as Default

Coppermine Photogallery
Multi-Purpose Fully-Featured and Integrated Web Picture Gallery
Complete Groups Intragration and Adminstration
Supports Uploads and User Gallerys

Ecommerce System
OSCNuke(Lite) Pre-Intergration (oscnukelite.org)
Setup, Run, and Maintain an Online Store

BBcode Enhancements
Use BBcode in all postings
HTML Support
Multimedia Support (flash, etc)


This way, we could have a stable version 1 of VB3Nuke by July 4th that outperforms any VB3 portal system AND is more fully integrated as a true CMS.

[13th_Disciple]

all of that is good.. except for the store bit.. I already use OSCommerce.. but it is a great option for others considering doing the same..

i am quite anxious to see a version encompassing all of this with query info and load times per page.. i remember you mentioned a single query a page back or maybe first page.. looks like that will have to increase unless you are caching everything.. which, i guess, would make the page a bit slow at first initial load.. but would move right along after that.. very good work, FAS.

[thebigboss]

thebigboss, and why didn't you say that you are part of the vBPortal team (scotsmist) :)

If you look at the hundreds of fixes that are currently posted in the vBP support forum, and since these fixes are not yet integrated in the currently downloadable Beta 1, I must say that it is anything BUT NOT STABLE.

Btw, even wajones agrees with me that vBP 3 Beta 1 is not stable enough for a live system.

I thought it was common knowledge (it is know, :) )

it doesn't actually say it isn't stable enough. On the contrary, the Credits say the opposite.

the issue around installing on a live site is a simple one, its to seperate vbportal issues from vbulletin issues and not spend time looking for needles in haystacks.

vbportal is fully capable of 100 + queries.., but we are talking about vbportal 3.0 and its well capable of 15 querys. 100+ applys to phpnuke modules such as web_links, downloads, encyclopedia (150+), classifieds in their 'unconverted' state. Every module for vbportal 3.0 uses 6 querys for a no-permission page and 1-3 querys per modules content, again depending on where your viewing, then whatever blocks. The blocks can be cached, so its down to the individual laying out each module and what blocks they want, displayed where, remembering that every module can have its own blocks in the left right and center columns, in their own weight and its own templates if you want.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigboss
If your just 'dropping' unconverted nuke modules in place, they would be using whatever number of querys the module is coded with and some of them go into the hundreds on a single page. How do you propose to keep the query count down then, if your not changing the phpnuke core code ?

I've given this a great deal of thought too. I'm considering releasing the PHPNuke 7.1 based version as the beta and using CPG-Nuke as the basis for the final release.

So VB3Nuke Final Version 1 would also encompass all of the CPG-Nuke improvements:

CPG Nuke Core Features

CGP-Nuke C...

I meant how are you going to keep down the number of querys the phpnuke modules and blocks use, if its using phpnuke modules in a drop in form ? the downloads, with 10 categories and 10 subcategories in each will produle 100 querys just to open the downloads index page on any system, unless you redo the code. it loops inside loops querying the db.
What do you propose to reduce the downloads module producing 100+ querys when viewing the index page or the encyclopedia module producing 150+ querys ?

[13th_Disciple]

but we are talking about vbportal 3.0 and its well capable of 15 querys. 100+ applys to phpnuke modules such as web_links, downloads, encyclopedia (150+), classifieds in their 'unconverted' state. Every module for vbportal 3.0 uses 6 querys for a no-permission page and 1-3 querys per modules content, again depending on where your viewing, then whatever blocks. The blocks can be cached, so its down to the individual laying out each module and what blocks they want, displayed where, remembering that every module can have its own blocks in the left right and center columns, in their own weight and its own templates if you want.

yes but half of the reason for having vbportal inthe first place was because it was an all in one solution.. when the all in one is not optimized, then it isn't an all in one.. you folks claim optimization on your site.. in fact, it was one of the things that heavily touted awhile back.. but it is hardly optimized.. anyway, no sense worrying about it.. this thread is mainly about the *nuke based multi-portal and not about vbportal..

[FASherman]

Optimizing modules/blocks isn't very difficult.

The previous version of vbportal did that in a few occurrances too. When I was using it, I removed them by rewriting the queries using left joins, reading the results into a cache array and extracting info from the cached array.

Even better is to load the cache array in mainfile.php and making it globally available to all/blocks and modules based on a single sql query.

Will all Nuke blocks/modules be optimized? Hardly. However, I can optimize the most popular over time ir provide programming expertise to others who wish to do so.

[FASherman]

Here's an example of what I mean. Lets say you're looking for a list of threads, but at the same time, you want to know what the name (not id) of the forum they're in, the test from the first post in that thread and the actual image url for that post's icon.

You COULD, as I have seen other code do, grab the thread info and for each row of thread info query the post, forum and icon tables. If you're grabbing 10 threads, thats 31 queries. WAY INEFFICIENT!

The right way to do it is with a single query and compounded left joins. Here is an example:

SELECT vb_thread.votenum, vb_thread.votetotal, vb_thread.replycount, vb_thread.threadid, vb_thread.iconid, vb_thread.title, vb_thread.postusername, vb_thread.lastposter, vb_thread.dateline, vb_icon.iconpath, vb_post.pagetext, vb_forum.title as forumtitle FROM vb_thread LEFT JOIN vb_icon ON (vb_thread.iconid=vb_icon.iconid) LEFT JOIN vb_post on (vb_thread.firstpostid=postid) LEFT JOIN vb_forum ON (vb_thread.forumid=vb_forum.forumid) WHERE vb_thread.forumid=$SEARCHFORUM ORDER BY sticky DESC, vb_thread.dateline DESC LIMIT 10

You are correct. I can't speak for the stock NUKE modules. But this is how MY code works. I take the time to make the most efficient use of the database that I possibly can.

Remember, I'm a Texan and this ain't my first rodeo.

[FASherman]

Future discussions regarding VB3Nuke development will take place at http://www.vb3nuke.com