The State of this Forum

[Freddie Bingham]

This thread is old so please stop bringing it back up!

[Smellycat]

Originally posted by freddie

Be careful what you post or you will be slammed



My first week here, cost me having to deregister!, and sign up again for my newbyness.

So yeah i agree that some people are far too hostile here, but thats the big wide world i guess. Found it very friendly though on vbulletin.com

[Mark Hensler]

"quantity != quality"
I whole heartily agree.
(I have no quantity, so I must be all quallity, right? j/k)

"All the hackers are a bunch of kids looking to make money"
I have that impression as well. A large portion of the hackers anyway. This isn't exactly something you're gonna put on a resume... Realize it for what it is... a learning experience, a labor of love...

I've also noticed quite a few links to make PayPall donations. There may not be anything wrong with that, but when you see half of everyone with one of these....

[Steve Machol]

FWIW I used to actively read about all the hacks when they were still at vbulletin.com. However there's no question that I have lost interest in most hacks since the move to vb.org. I hadn't really thought about the reason for this lack of interest, but perhaps it's partly due to the issues Freddie raised.

[Neo]

I would have to fuly argee. I just am starting not to like this site very much anymore.. I do come here since I like making hacks but I have been feeling like people are being demanding of hacks so I dont even bother.

[Freddie Bingham]

Originally posted by neo
I would have to fuly argee. I just am starting not to like this site very much anymore.. I do come here since I like making hacks but I have been feeling like people are being demanding of hacks so I dont even bother. You twisted it around. I don't see demanding users. If 20 different people say " have you made that multiple attachment hack yet ", that is not demanding. Don't put a signature that says "Current Projects: Multiple Attachments", if you don't want people to bug you about it.

[FWC]

There is merit in much of what Freddie says. However, I must add that while I read this board constantly, I rarely go to vbulletin.com anymore because I can't stand the constant whining and attacks on the vB staff that go on there. The 2.2.5 announcement discussion thread is a classic example. I love vB and I think the vB team is top notch. The abusive members over there have ruined that place for me.

[Neo]

I have had a few people demand hacks through IM

[TECK]

Originally posted by freddie
Some of you seem to happy to except mediocrity. Where is the polish to show you care about what you are doing? Perhaps you should spend more time working on each hack instead of trying to win some unimportant race to be the top hacker. Speaking of which, I don't think we should be tracking these sorts of stats as it only helps fuel some to act like children.

I want this forum to be more than it currently is.

<flame on>

And remember I am speaking as a hacker, not as a Jelsoft representative.i must say this: when i started using VB, i didnt know nothing about PHP. but i'm a stubborn person and i dont like to lose, so i started understanding the mechanism and spending every day some time on php.net to read info and code snippets. so i agree with the line "you should spend more time working on each hack instead of trying to win some unimportant race to be the top hacker".

alot of people here don't know what is this: "respect for your collegue" and "help the community". lazy? yes i was lazy with one of my hacks once (vbHome) by not updating the code variables the right way. but i corrected all this when a user complained about it.

i personally consider myself lucky that i'm among this community. that's why sometimes i get a little harsh with people who insult others with terms like "lame", "gay", etc. this is not a way to deal with people. we are here to help eachothers, not to overinflate our chests.

how do i participate myself to this community? not by posting the "best" hack, but by trying to help others in need, with the little PHP knowledge i have. i'm not shy to see i'm wrong and to apologise.

there are some bad apples in every garden, as we say in romania. but i believe we have a good spirit community here. we just have to chisel ourself and learn how to act into our large family.

flame? why would people flame your post? all you said was truth and deep down inside of us, we all admit this. i do. and i apologise for this. i will try my best to correct any of the issues related to this matter (attitude, code, etc), even if dont see myself guilty of doing something. i try my best to help people with their problems and sometimes to come up with a little hack. but is like that, if you analise your actions, you start to see what you did wrong and you regret it. i'm sure we all do. deep down inside of us.

all the best,
nakkid.

[Modshack]

I don't think we should be allowing the selling of any hacks on this forum. I don't begrudge any one's right to make a buck but capitalism in this community only stifles its growth. We could be so much more but never achieve it. vBulletin is a better product than UBB but vbulletin.org is not at ubbdev.com's level.

Freddie I made this point on vb.com and was shot down in flames by many of the people who sell the hacks as well as those who are dumb enough to buy them.

I have always said that this place should be a community and that it should be non profit making and for the good of the community and I take my hat off to you for having the wotnots to say what you think.

I think that some people should lighten up and also learn to take a joke too.

Yesterday I made a post on shoutbox that it was my birthday and that unless people be nice to me I would kill FireFly, I expected the reaction of people calling me an evil meanie as come on I would never consider killing Chen, well maybe if there was a lot of money involved from infopop :).

Anyhow the post was made in good humour but people failed to see it that way as they are too preocupied being IMHO bum kissers.

I hope Chen did not take it the wrong way and that he saw the funny side of it. But I realy do think Neo, 69-FLy-gUy and afterlab should go out and smell some fresh air or something.

I myself had a run in with Chen a while back but he has more than proved his worth and that he is capable of running this forum and tbh I see this as his creation.

Sinecure I class in the same light as those who sell hacks as he has sold styles before today, same thing realy as he is using his position to make money from something that is essentialy free.

Anyhow I am happy to see that Jelsoft takes its members views seriously.

Yours respectfully

HM

[Modshack]

BTW can I just add that when I first came on vb.org I regarded chen as and I aint ashamed to say it "A KID" and my perception of him was wrong from day 1.

If anyone should be TOP HACKER then it should be him and only him as he has turned this place into something worth while and I credit him with all the hard work.

He has gone above and beyond what I would call the JOB and he has impressed a fat bloke like me who is set in my ways on many things.

In short I admit I was wrong about Chen and he has done a kick ass job here and trust me it takes a lot to impress me :).

BTW I aint but kissing I am just stating the truth.

[Smellycat]

Well there is no harm i guess in kids making a bit of pocket money is there!

But only if someone asks them to do some direct work to their board.

maybe be a idea to setup a forum for work requests and stop all the signature adverts all together.

Cos I have requested some php work from the forums at times, and really didnt feel there was a good area to put it in, and dont like to bug people with private messages.

Just an idea anyhow.

[Reeve of shinra]

Freddie raises some very valid points....

This community is what we make of it. Its in our own best interest to develop it into something meaningful. A place where we can exchange idea's and assist one other with projects that will in the end benifit us all.

[Sadie Frost]

I know I'm not a big poster here but I thought I'd throw my 11 cents in and give the 'non-hack-writer' perspective.

Completely agree on not selling hacks on here. My personal opinion is, if someone wants a hack and wants to pay someone to write it for them, that's fine but they should conduct that via pm, email or similar. Once you start selling things, people get really petty and the community is lost (imo).

I really think there's a good community here. Yeah, sometimes someone comes on and makes inappropriate comments, but for the most part, the people here are great and very willing to help out each other. I joined another forum for vb and although I highly respect the work of the board founder, the behavior of the members (towards me and also towards each other) just did not make me feel comfortable or like that is even a place I want to spend time at.

Firefly, Freddie and all the staff here are terrific and will help out people like me with their dumb questions (lol) - and though I may feel a little stupid asking things, I never feel like I'm going to be ridiculed or put down for asking it. I always feel comfortable asking questions or trying to help out others if I have a suggestion.

And I completely agree with Reeve that this should be a place for us all to exchange ideas and help each other, rather than people constantly saying "That's mine! or You stole my idea!"

:)

[Steve Machol]

I just wanted to add that I think Chen is doing a great job with vb.org. However he is just one person. A successful forum of this size needs more than one active Moderator.

I try to help the best I can but I'm not a PHP programmer. Obviously this severely limits my usefulness here.

[Overgrow]

<wacky idea>
Install Karma here
</wacky idea>

It would stop the bad attitude from older registered members as they watch their karma get whacked to the red.

It would let you reward good hack writers with a little appreciation and could replace hack count.

Anytime you give special recognition to someone who does something alot (could be posts or releases hacks) then someone will do it alot, shoddily, just to get on the top 10 list. With karma, you don't show any raw numbers and there is no top 10 list.

As one of those who 'sells' his work, why should everything be free? You paid for vBulletin because you saw it was a product that took a lot of work to produce. They can offer it for a very reasonable price because of the volume they sell. If someone has a hack that took 4 weeks to perfect and 4 months to test, this is a free market planet and if they can make a buck for it, great.

I honestly don't hang around the Requests room so perhaps I am missing the point of this argument if people are always replying to requests with bidding wars.. that is not the point.

I release almost every useful feature that I write for vBulletin.. free of charge. It's not always the prettiest code or the simplest install because I write for MY OWN site. I love this community really, but as with everyone else here, our own sites take up a great deal of our time. I don't always have the time or patience to make a nice install file for my hacks... so should I not release them? I will take a look at Chen's masterpiece of vBhacker soon.

I know what you are talking about though with quantity over quality.. I've seen more than a few hacks that were written in a bass-ackwards way or caused far too much dB load when it wasn't necessary.

Despite the attitude, I prefer this place to vB.com and spend at least 10 times longer here each week.

[Freddie Bingham]

I was not implying that you should not be able to sell a hack, just not on this forum. If this site is here to foster vBulletin hacking than capitalism should be be left at the door.

The 'free market planet' does not help this community grow as a hacking resource for vBulletin unless we want that hacking resource to be only open to those that are willing to pay to play. A lot of the 'pay' stuff isn't even worth being paid for to begin with. Perhaps the Karma is, but not much else (of what is being offered for sale).

I also wan't saying you should go crazy with 'nice installs' or psycho like Kier did with all of his hacks. I was talking about the quality of the code and the queries. Personally, I could care less what the install or instructions look like or if it uses 'vbHacker'.

Just my opinion, Firefly is free to do whatever he wishes with this site.

[Overgrow]

Points taken, you are correct.

I guess I differentiate between "hacks" that I write and "software" that I write (karma, gallery, faq, etc) that would not be released for free.

[heretic]

I see a few things. I'm not a hacker, I don't have time with a family and a full time job learning php code.

I don't se much to help with, but if I can sometimes I try. I see people getting bitter when someone requests a specific hack in the requests forum. I see other hackers laughing at less expierenced hackers.

This is because I don't see any real sudden moderation in terms of attitudes. At ubbdev I never saw this problem. I moved to vB in november because of this site and the support of vB. The past few weeks I've been tempted to move back just because the general concensus of non-hackers are scared to ask for anythign because they're scared of getting yelled at.

[Scott MacVicar]

I have been unable to post for the past week due to my stupid cable modem screwing up, though I agree with freddie, too many people are creating half hearted attempts at hacks then just posting them and there is a lack of support for these hacks.

Non-hackers should just simply post in the requests forum asking for a certain hack, but I see more and more people bumping topics just because no one is replied. Maybe hackers should consider posting requests and explaining if they are unreasonable.

Scott

[Xelation]

Originally posted by PPN
Non-hackers should just simply post in the requests forum asking for a certain hack, but I see more and more people bumping topics just because no one is replied. Maybe hackers should consider posting requests and explaining if they are unreasonable.

Scott

excellent Idea in my opinion. :)

[SaintDog]

I agree for the most part, there are many hackers/posters here that think this is a big contest and whoever has the largest post/hack count wins something, sorry to say, you don't (at least not that I am aware of).

I like vBulletin.org very much, it has provided me with many add-on features in which are not already in vBulletin (at this time), although some people have an attitude problem that needs to be fixed.

The other thing that I think is basically useless on this website is the shoutbox. I mean no offense to the person who created it (Sinecure), it is a great hack in deed, but I don't think it has a place here on this website. I was told the shout box is basically a place for those people who feel the need to, to spam. Well other than just plain out spam, I see people asking "Why can't I download hacks", "Why do I have to buy vBulletin to download hacks", posting of URL's to the GoatSE stuff, people calling people "Gay" or "Fag", ect. In my honest opinion, there really is not a need for any of that.

vBulletin.org is a great site, I hope it stays good and grows greatly, more than it already has, but some things DO need to change.

SaintDog

[Steve Machol]

Very good point about the Shoutbox. I never go to the Home page and just took a look at it to see what you were talking about. The Shoutbox definitely detracts from the site. Not because it's a bad hack. It's just that the messages there are so childish.

[Modshack]

I think access to this site should be given to people who buy vbull and not the scum who download and use it for free.

TBH what the hell are they doing with a copy anyhow if they aint paid for it and what do they think they have a right to on here.

ahhh sod it no one listens to fat people anyhow :)

BTW I agree with smachol on the shout box its sucks and IMHO is controlled and vetted by a select few who jump down anyones throat that they dont like or dont agree with.

Hardly a good advertisement for the site.

HM

[Modshack]

With regards to the comment above about shoutbox

I mean no offense to the person who created it (Sinecure)

Sorry I was under the impression Sinecures m8 created it ?

HM

[Sparkz]

I dunno, I think most of the shoutboxes are just lame attempts to make a site seem more interactive, or something.
Doesn't really contribute to anything other than flamewars and maybe a few more hits (correct me if I am wrong, but I don't really think vb.org need either of those)...

[TWTCommish]

The Shoutbox became a mess quickly.

Anywhoo, I have nothing to say, I don't think, that hasn't been said already. I think the moderation of the Full Releases forum (which seems utterly ineivtable at this point) will do wonders for the quality of content around here.

[Sparkz]

/agree

[Modshack]

Who ever took the decision to remove the shout box has my blessing and made the right choice.

HM

[Xanthine]

Originally posted by Modshack
Who ever took the decision to remove the shout box has my blessing and made the right choice.

HM

I was just going to post that but i decided to use your quote instead :D

I also noticed theres no post count next to our names or hack count. I think the hack count being taken away was a good idea but I liked the posts being there.

[cessna140]

My .02.

First, I am a vB user with a site to run and not a hacker. I haven't posted much because I don't have time to hang out. The only reason I come here is to search for solutions to problems or hunt for hacks that will make my site better and more functional. This community is the beauty of vBulletin! vBulletin.com & .org ARE the reason I decided to purchase vB.

Since purchasing vB, I have lurked on these boards in an effort to get a feel for the community and to determine who was really here to help and who was not. Unfortunately, from the start, it was clear to me that newbies & their pesky questions were not appreciated. From what I have seen when evaluating several of these boards, I guess this is as professional as it gets in this business although some are worse than others.

In my opinion it is alarming to see the large number of questions & requests that are ignored or impolitely dismissed. This is too bad because it leaves many vB users without help which is exactly why this place exists, correct?.

I disagree with the notion that paid hacks are a bad thing. If paying for it is the only way I can get a needed hack done, I will gladly pay for it provided it is finished in a timely manner and done correctly the first time. Please, don't take that option away from us, it may be the only way to get some hacks done. Just make the process easier.

Perhaps a real solution is to separate all the "paid" hacks from the "freebies" by confining them to a "Hacks for Sale" forum. All business/whinning can be conducted there. Then change the current "Hacks" database to "Free Hacks". Additionally, it would be a good idea to do away with all of the advertising in the sigs.

Furthermore, establish a "Paid Hack Request" forum where anyone willing to pay for a hack can post a request. Of course, this would be separate from the regular request forum and for most, would be a last resort.

As previously suggested, maybe ALL hackers should be rated on the Quality of their hacks and/or the Service provided, instead of the number of hacks produced? This would provide the non-hackers a way of determining who to approach to get quality work done. I think this would separate the men from the boys in a hurry!

Lastly, if a hacker agrees to take on a job, paid or otherwise, they should make every effort to complete the job in a timely manner or at a minimum, give regular updates as the job progresses. I don't think that is unreasonable and would help solve the problem that was mentioned above by a Hacker that was tired of being harrassed.

Case in point, one hacker (namless) has committed to several hacks I have requested and I have yet to see one of them completed. I haven't had any progress reports and have no way of knowing where the project(s) stand because I do not want to harrass him. He did not have to take them on, he chose to... Because he was the only one to respond to my queries, I am afraid to inquire as I do not want to anger him into quiting. I need the hacks and no one else volunteered. What's a newbie to do?

Anyway, thanks for all the work, despite its drawbacks, it is the best forum software out there!

[Freddie Bingham]

If someone commits to writing a hack for free for you than you really have no recourse against them if they choose not to.

Everyone has a right to sell hacks and the right to purchase hacks. Doing so does not promote the expansion of the hacking community since those activities are limited to a small group of people.

If this forum was split up into a 'free' section and a 'paid' section than that would almost beg for a competitive hacking site to open up that has a strict no asking for and no selling policy.

It is all moot as I have the feeling that the site will continue on as it is. You can post hacks for sale if you want, right along the free hacks. Hacker X sees hacker Y is making a few bucks so he decides to try it. Hacker Z then sees what is going on so he tries it out. Soon enough, everyone is only offering hacks for money and we have constant arguments over the point of the community. It is no longer a community but a trading post.

It is vb.org, not vb.com.

Paid hacks should be left to private messages and emails.

[TECK]

Originally posted by cessna140
Because he was the only one to respond to my queries, I am afraid to inquire as I do not want to anger him into quiting. I need the hacks and no one else volunteered. What's a newbie to do?i dont see why a hacker would get angry if another hacker will request help? i write sometimes hacks, but i'm not affraid to ask for help. i know for a fact that i got help here in those forums from day one. think also this way: maybe the hackers who say your request had no clue about the code design... and the ones that knew about it, probably were involved in other personal projects. dont be affraid to post. it's all in the way you layout the words (i speak in general now)...

feel free to open a thread in Requests, this where all experienced hackers look first to come up with new cool ideas. :)

[Sparkz]

Originally posted by cessna140

In my opinion it is alarming to see the large number of questions & requests that are ignored or impolitely dismissed. This is too bad because it leaves many vB users without help which is exactly why this place exists, correct?.


First of all, after answering the same question again and again, just because someone did not bother to use the search feature, or read the whole thread gets old after a while. And it only makes longer threads with more crap to sift through to find the answers for those that actually want to research their problem before asking.

I am convinced that a great part of questions that are ignored are from users who read the first post in a thread, downloaded the hack, was in a hurry so they made a mistake that left their board unusable and just hit the reply button shouting 'why is your stupid hack not working'.

For people considering installing hacks I would expect at least SOME research before asking questions. I would expect them to check through the installation instructions carefully before having a go at it, and I would expect them to try it out on a dev board first, so that in case it breaks something - for whatever reason - it is not critical that it be fixed at once. How many times have you seen people demanding help because they broke their board?

Now don't get me wrong. I actually enjoy helping people, but this is a community of volunteers and we all do what we do here because we enjoy it. The minute some n00b that hardly knows what a browser is comes pushing demands down my throat, I do not feel like helping anymore.

Originally posted by cessna140

I disagree with the notion that paid hacks are a bad thing. If paying for it is the only way I can get a needed hack done, I will gladly pay for it provided it is finished in a timely manner and done correctly the first time. Please, don't take that option away from us, it may be the only way to get some hacks done. Just make the process easier.


IMHO, these things should be at iwanttobuyavbhack.biz or something.

[TECK]

Originally posted by freddie
Paid hacks should be left to private messages and emails. exacly. in my personal oppinion, is up to the hacker what he does, but he must give something to the community first. if he wants to make money, he can do it on his own website, not here. there is the place to talk about money, and vB.org is not one of them.

take an example: me and vbHome. i will release the full version when my website will be online. and trust me, i will not place a link in my signature about this. i learned from other hackers here that a signature is not an advertising board for a business.

in few words: vB.org is not an money making machine. is a site where people gather to get cool things for their boards, for free.

[Harvey]

Hi,

if someone posted this already or if I miss the theme then sorry (I don't really speak english :( )

Suggestions:
Allow posts like "I search a hack xxx. I like to pay for it, please contact me via PM"
Disallow posts like "look, I sell a hack"
Allow users to post full tested hacks with no or bad support. The user must write that there will be no support. There are users that wants to share hacks but don't speak english.
Not for "BETA Hacks": disallow users to post a full release without an example (image or homepage), so that you can see that it works.
Not for "BETA Hacks": Disallow new threads in "Full realease". Create a new forum "Hack Feedback" and disallow new threads. Let the user post new hacks directly in the hack database. This generates 2 threads: one support thread and one feedback thread for posts like "let me kiss your hand", "look to the image of my board" and so on. (I know that this requires a big hack for this board, but IMHO that makes the board more clearly).


Ok, now I am 30 minutes older and I don't know if somone understands. I do the last suggestion in german.

Macht ein neues Forum "Hack Feedback" auf. Verbietet hierin und im Forum "Full Releases" das Erstellen neuer Threads. Stattdessen posten die Benutzer ihre Hacks direkt in der Datenbank. Darauf hin werden automatisch 2 Threads generiert: Ein Supportthread in "Full Releases" und einer in "Hack Feedback". Letzterer f?r die Dankesschreiben.

Das erfordert zwar einen gr??eren Hack in diesem Board, aber ich sch?tze dies w?rde alles viel ?bersichtlicher machen.

[Floris]

I am very glad that I can find solutions to my forum problems, where I fail to do so with templates. And I think I can get the help here. The team behind vB org is doing good job (and fast). But I am scared to ask a stupid question, because I feel I am immediatly put in a box that is tagged 'lamer'. I do not have this feeling on vB com.

I am sorry to see the shoutbox go, because its a nice hack and looks fun on the portal. But I am happy it is not there no more, since it is not really something that contributes to this site. And the content of the posts aren't 'really' fun to read.

I have seen a lot of full releases that I consider beta stage .. even if I do not know much enough php/mysql to write my own. But there are a lot of good quality hacks out there, like vBstats and those little ones that improve the look of a board. They do not result in 50 extra queries per page load.

I seriously dislike seeing hacks that I need to pay for. For the simple reason that I personally will not purchase any. (This doesn't mean I do not understand why someone would ask money for it!). At least show your 'free' hacks here, and use the signature to inform us you have made more hacks, and they are for purchase. And use your own forum for support.

I am fairly new to this site, since January, but the last somewhat weeks it started to look somewhat messy to me. The new green theme is a nice improvement. It makes it look more professional, instead of 'warez' like.

Restrickting users for downloads and/or even reading threads/attachments is a good idea. Making this public for license holders is a nice idea. And I support that.

Even though I sound negative at times in this post, I do respect the help and support from other members from this board. And the time they put into making code-modifications for the vBulletin forum. And I also have respect for the team behind this web site. For they have done a bloody great job.

[TECK]

Originally posted by xiphoid
I am scared to ask a stupid question, because I feel I am immediatly put in a box that is tagged 'lamer'. I do not have this feeling on vB com.i must not agree with you. i ask all the time newbie style questions and nobody laugh at me (well only once it happened).

[Sadie Frost]

nakkid, are you talking about me again? lol Just kidding :)

Anyway, I disagree with that quote as well. Or, actually, I just feel the exact opposite. I always feel that my questions are answered here and that I get help when I need/ask for it - I feel ignored at .com (nothing against the site team there).

[nafae]

I agree with all of what freddie said. if people want to sell something, they should find other venues with which to market their product. vbulletin.org it a place for people to download open-source modifications to vbulletin, not to bid and market hacks that cost money.

And I have never been 'scared' to ask questions. Almost ALL of my questions have been answered on vb.org and vb.com, but i always do a search for the question & the answer, and usually will try my hardest to figure it out myself before I ask. Usually, after all of that, the question will obviously have some merit being answered as noone else has asked it!

I also believe that more careful moderation would be very helpful. Some of the people here are very snappy (to each other) and some moderation would really help.

And about the community, I usually spend most of my time socializing at vbulletin.com because the people in the chitchat forum are usually and generally more mature, and the moderation seems a bit stricter. So yes, I avoid the community here, I usually just stop by the general hacking discussion forum and the full releases once a day and that's it.

[TECK]

Originally posted by Sadie Frost
I feel ignored at .com (nothing against the site team there). you are so right. me to i feel the same. that's why i dont post there.

[Harvey]

@xiphoid: if you mean me (it's behind my post), then one of my sentense is wrong

[nafae]

Originally posted by nakkid
you are so right. me to i feel the same. that's why i dont post there.

I do agree on that one, although I usually get responses from the members, the vB guys never respond to PM's (I asked one of them about the new rules last week, and if something I posted would violate them. -I never recieved a response -as if it's so hard to click reply to PM, type "Yes, please don't post that on vbulletin.com" and click send. I guess they just don't have time for the folks that keep them paid.)

[Harvey]

They have to much to do to get 2.2.x secure this time?
They have to much to do with 3.0 this time?

I don't know.

PS: should I better keep out of this thread? Newbee & no english?

Edit:
I had an agreement with my English teacher at the school time: You let to me in rest I let you in rest. Today I regret it.
I do not know whether I nerve you.
PS: This is a program duch translates.

Next edit (last: on 04-13-02 at 05:27 PM):
Slowly I come here to myself too before as air. But that is certain only at my English. I do not give up, only so I can learn English and do simultaneously good.

This section is also about a program translated.

manual: Hope the programm do it perfect.

[Mark Hensler]

I've asked to have my username at vb.com changed (to match the one here), I never got a response. Bumped it once, still no response, so I gave up.
Originally posted by Harvey
They have to much to do to get 2.2.x secure this time?
They have to much to do with 3.0 this time?

I don't know.IMO, the development team and the forum moderation team should be seperate. So the one activity doesn't interfere with the performance/quality of the other.

[el3m3nt]

Originally posted by Mark Hensler
IMO, the development team and the forum moderation team should be seperate. So the one activity doesn't interfere with the performance/quality of the other.
I thought thats already like this.

Ehm harvey, thats a funny problem. i have the same one.
hmm.. ich schreib dir noch ne pn.

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by Mark Hensler
I've asked to have my username at vb.com changed (to match the one here), I never got a response. Bumped it once, still no response, so I gave up.

I just changed your username at vb.com for you.

[Mark Hensler]

Thank you sir!

[g-force2k2]

I agree with you Freddie... vb.org is different... when i first signed up and bought my vb i thought it'd be quite the experience... but i seem to have been mistaken... don't see very much help and i don't know what kind of help i would recieve it i asked questions... props to PPN for showing both respectability and reliablity... yeah i don't see many mods around much... mostly just PPN who's done a great job... i've seen some of your comments around Freddie and i think you're correct... this community needs to make a turn around... i've seen alot of criticizing and what not as well... the way PPN once stated... "if the hack is useful and its what you want thats what matters"... sure quantity != quality... but sometimes such a simple hack can be very useful... as i've seen many around...

gforce2001

[kira]

Originally posted by gforce2001
I agree with you Freddie... vb.org is different... when i first signed up and bought my vb i thought it'd be quite the experience... but i seem to have been mistaken... don't see very much help and i don't know what kind of help i would recieve it i asked questions...

Hi all. I'm not sure it's necessarily fair to indict a community for not helping when you haven't yet asked for help. (Sorry if that makes no sense!) I recently delurked after spending months in the shadows, too shy to post. My very first post (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?threadid=37446) was a hack request, and only a couple of hours later, Logician replied with some questions asking me to clarify myself a little better.

By the end of 24 hours, s/he'd provided me with no less than three attempts to get the hack working properly, and the last one was perfection. S/he even offered me an alternative just in case what I was asking for wasn't possible. All this for a hack that no one else has requested, so it may not be all that useful to anyone but me! I'm incredibly grateful and humbled by getting such quick, thorough help.

Maybe I was just extremely lucky by having Logician be the first one to find me. (Obviously s/he truly enjoys hacking and helping. :)) Or maybe it's the way I posted -- I was honest with my lack of experience, and tried to be as polite and undemanding as someone requesting free help should be. That doesn't seem to always be the case. (Some requesters are pretty rude in response to the hacks people provide them -- a service y'all are getting provided to you for free, people! Jeez!)

All in all, I think the vBulletin.org experience is what we make of it. If one comes off like a demanding idiot, it's unlikely that others are gonna be inspired to offer much help.

Sorry for the length. And thanks again to the supportive people who make vB so helpful!

[SaintDog]

All in all, I think the vBulletin.org experience is what we make of it. If one comes off like a demanding idiot, it's unlikely that others are gonna be inspired to offer much help.


I agree with that fully, well said. When I first signed up here, I am pretty sure one of my first posts was requesting a hack also, only a few of my posts have not been answered and I really don't have a problem with it as I realize that people have lives to. MOst people don't sit at their computer 24/7 and develop hacks (while some do :)).

I can not really pin-point one hacker or person that has helped me out more than the other - bascially everything is equal in my line of sight.

As said above, vBulletin.org is what you make of it, if you come off as a rude and hateful person, no one is going to want to help you, more over flame you. If you are respectful of others, you are more likely to get the help you need. Sometimes you will not get help, but that is life, you will not get everything you want.

- SaintDog

[apfeifer]

Ok, I haven't read this entire post even though I probably should have, but my thought on selling hacks: I find that, like others have said, is just 'kids' trying to make a quick buck. I do this because I find it exciting, and I hope others feel the same way.

[bigmattyh]

Originally posted by freddie
I see a lot of hacks here but I don't see much pride in their creation.
I get a little gleeful burst of happiness when people reply to my hack(s) and offer their appreciation. Seriously -- it gives me a lot of joy to know that I'm helping people make their forums better.

Hell, there's not enough money to be made in providing general hacks for a fee. You drive off too many people with the prospect of paying extra for a little added feature. I can understand someone who invests their time and energy into a custom project -- at someone's request -- and asks for compensation.

But I also think it's repulsive when someone posts a request and the immediate response is "I'll do it for $30". MORE IRRITATING is when someone posts that they're working on a hack, and the Gimme-Gimmes come slithering out of the woodwork to demand its release with their cries of "Why isn't it done?" and "You suck."

[PhotoGenie]

I myself just mostly come here and download the great hacks you people make. I dont associate unless necessary because there is a little stinch in the air. I just came from looking at the Shoutbox thread and there are bits and pieces of that hack everywhere. The first post doesn't say whether its been updated. Can't we all just get along? LOL .. I've learned since coming here to read everypost in every thread pertaining to hacks. I see a lot of questions asked 2 or 3 times one right after the other. Maybe a set of rules that newcomers should read with instructions:

If the same question is posted by someone else already do not post the question again.

Please read the entire thread before posting any questions or comments.


That Shoutbox thread is a mess though! It would be nice if the first post of every thread could be updated with the current working version when fixes are made. Figuring out what files to download can be a chore in itself. To all you hackers though, you are appreciated by the majority of us.:)

[Sinecure]

Originally posted by Modshack

Sinecure I class in the same light as those who sell hacks as he has sold styles before today, same thing realy as he is using his position to make money from something that is essentialy free.



Using my position to make money from something that is free? Well what "position" you are refering to I have no idea. It's ok to put tons of hours into a design and sell it, but once that design "can" be used for vBulletin it should now be "Free"? I released a Christmas style for free for everyone to use, and that was my contribution. I also posted template modifying tips etc. I sell one Style and all of a sudden your portarying me as someone who only does it for the money? I take these comments quite personally. Maybe take a look at all the things I've done for the community, rather than just that 1 xbox style I sold. How many button sets to do I have avaiable for people to download? Do you know how many hours I put into those button sets so people can use? A lot more than you'd think.

[NTLDR]

I agree with you there Sinecure, I can't say that I have seen you advertising anything on these forums other than stuff that is free. I am also fed up of everyone expecting to get everything for free, why should people like Sinecure and c-pr0mpt work for hours creating styles, buttons and graphics for everyone else to use.

[trivaya]

I agree 100% with Freddie. This site is completely out of hand. I think the underlying problem here, is the fact that there are gobs of 14-15yr olds with growing egos on a quest to showcase. Take afterlab for example... That kid is continuously dangling his "innovations" in front of everyone's face. Newbies are met with a shrug-off attitude, and this seems to be more a source of competitive resource, than helpful resource.

On the commercial side.. I think the idea of selling hacks is ridiculous, and that's not what a "community" is all about. You could say "I'm supposed to put hours and hours into something to give it away for free?" No, you're not.. the simple solution is, don't make it in the first place, you greedy jerk.. but don't come showcasing your crap, and dangling it in the eyes of others either. Speaking as a professional developer, I can say that most of the hacks found on here aren't anywhere near the level of being labeled "commercial worthy." These kids need to learn proper usage of queries, and explore table joins versus queries in while loops. I've seen some of these hacks in action, and there's no excuse in the world for 1+sec exec times, with 60+ queries.

[TECK]

Originally posted by trivaya
I agree 100% with Freddie. This site is completely out of hand.i think you exagerate here... in every apple tree is gotta be a bad apple... that's how is life. we are talking about almost 17,000 members at vB.org.
you will not get help from alot of people because not alot of people know well php. take a look at me. i'm a novice in php but still try to help as much as i can.
since dec 2001, i didnt see alot people laughing at newbies... only few and there is no need to name them. pointing fingers at people here will not make you feel better, but exacly the opposite. you never know when it comes that day when that 'named' person will help you and you will feel bad for judging him fast.

[Sara's-faction]

I think it is you who is missing the point.
What ever vB.org may have been in the past, it sure as hell is not like that now. Now all I see are 14 year old kiddies who run around posting about the so called modifications they have made while making empty promises to release them as a ploy to generate traffic to his or her site. Most noticeably are the kids who own Final Fantasy sites. God as if we didn't have enough of them already. They latch onto an idea, make it and then go around telling others they will give it away at "some point" but to go to the site and see it working anyway. They need these types of cyber crutches in order to stand above the rest, and get mad as sin when someone else does similar.

I say so called "hacks" because adding to vB is not hacking my any means.
Looking around at all these lame "hacks" has taught me that it requires next to no skill. All one has to do is add about 80 new profile fields and then BLAMO, instant "hack." vB is slow / cumbersome as it is, and they go and turn it into a 230 query, 2.000 second loading monstrosity that will surely upset the hosting provider if kept up. Not surprising seeing as how most of them cant even spell, let alone code proper syntax. Bottom line, if you are here to promote your crap FF site with your proposed "hack" then stay the hell away and don't complain when people become frustrated with your empty promise.

[TECK]

i'm not trying to be rude but those 14years old kids are clients after all. most of them paid $160 for support. so what if they release poor hacks? the people who know about coding will always have a word to say... and point out the errors.
look at me, i'm really glad that firefly is reading all my posts and looks into my hacks. how many time he didnt find errors? many times... and he told me also how to correct them.

i read an adversity onto your post and i dont know where is comming from all this anger. if you are a better then those 14years old kids, start by talking decent here. if not hard to be polite in a public place and it brings you only good in life...

btw, i'm 33years old, if that makes any difference to you and i dont have a FF site.

[JJR512]

Essay on Making Hacks

When I first opened my message board, it was with UBB (this was in May 2000; I don't know if vBulletin was even around then). On Infopop's site, I read about the hacks that were available, and downloaded them, and installed them. I knew nothing at all about programming, but the hacks came with instructions that said exactly what to do. By knowing what the feature was that I was adding (the purpose of the hack), and by looking over the code that I was adding and replacing, I came to have a very basic understanding of how it all worked. I came up with some of my own ideas about new features or modifications, and realized that for much of what I wanted to do, I could find examples of similar things already in the code. Since I had already learned the basic idea of how it all worked, I was able to find the bit of code that worked the feature that was similar to what I wanted to do. By trial and error, I was able to learn more about the programming language, and was able to do bigger and better things.

I don't believe I ever created any of my own hacks for UBB. I modified some of the existing features and modified some other hacks. But I didn't get more into making my own hacks until after switching to vBulletin. With the new language of the program itself, as well as the separate and different language of the database system, I had to begin anew. But again, as I installed others' vB hacks, I came to have a basic understanding of the new system, and I was once more learning my own tricks.

My hacks, at first, were fairly simple, just doing basic things. As I created each one, and installed more and more from other fellow hackers, I learned more and more, and was able to do bigger, more complicated things. And I've never studied programming or taken any classes. I did buy a basic book on PHP, but to be honest, I never looked in it much. Aside from vBulletin itself, my greatest asset has probably been the PHP website (www.php.net), to use as a function and syntax reference. But, as I just indicated, my biggest resources in learning this has been vBulletin itself. I believe that anybody can install some of the hacks from other people here and use that experience to see how vB works. All you have to do is pay attention to what it is you're doing. Don't just blindly follow the directions; open your eyes and learn. Then, don't be afraid to try things yourself. Everything I learned I learned by trial and error. I learned how to install Windows after accidentally formatting my parents' hard drive. :) (So make backups first!)

So, don't be afraid to try things for yourself, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

[Sara's-faction]

Wrong again.
Those rude 14 year olds are not the clients. It is there parents who have to shell out the money. If you think differently then tell me where it is legal for a boy or girl to actually work an honest job making money, and have the time to buy a bulletin board and still manage to find time to make "hacks" to flaunt around.

I actually have no anger.
No, not at all. Just a world of pity. Once a tall pillar to define what a hacking community should be throughout the net... has been tarnished by all these mucus sniffing, bugger eating rug rats looking to generate a quick plug.

[Sara's-faction]

Powered by: vBulletin version 2.2.6, copyright ?2000 - 2002, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
This site is copyright ?2001 - 2002, vBulletin.org. All hacks are copyright their respective owners.
All smilies are copyright ?2002, Dark Project Studios. Logo created by nakkid. All graphics created by Sinecure.
Page generated in 1.06544399 seconds (7.92% PHP - 92.08% MySQL) with 24 queries.


I wonder how much longer till this whole board caves in.
[edit]
And this was JUST on this page with ONLY 2 replies
:confused:

[JJR512]

It's not legal for anyone under the age of 18 (in the USA) to own property, job or no job; property belongs to the parents.

Aside from that technicality, it's perfectly possible for a 14-yr. old to be a paying client. I had $160 to my own name when I was 14; I had a lot more than $160, actually. Most of it was inherited. I wasn't actually allowed by my parents to use that money, but someone else easily could have. It's also possible for 14-yr. old kids to get paying jobs; they are allowed to take some jobs. Then there are the "off the records" jobs that kids of all ages get, like mowing lawns and babysitting and stuff like that. Oh, and I can't believe I almost forgot the biggie: Allowance! I'm not getting myself involved in that part of the argument, I'm just pointing out that it's quite easy for lots of kids, of all ages, to have $160. Oh, and I think a lot of kids are quite good at programming. Shoot, I was taking computer classes after school in the first grade, way back in 1980 (Commodor 64); they weren't programming classes, but I'm sure they had them, too. I'm sure there are lots of 14-yr. old kids that are pretty good programmers. I'm sure there are even some that could write code circles around any of us here. They may not be here, but I'm sure they exist.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Sara's-faction
I wonder how much longer till this whole board caves in.
[edit]
And this was JUST on this page with ONLY 2 replies
:confused:
Excellent argument, touche.

Take the time to do a little research and find out an un-hacked vBulletin generates 24 queries on showthread as well, and that is without the tons of improvements we have here.
I also don't know where you got the 1+ second statistic from, in the last 20 times I refreshed the page it only took around 0.51900399 seconds.

It's very easy to criticize others and do nothing about it. I've seen you do nothing on this board other than putting down others.
Surely some people don't act nice, you will find this anywhere you go in life. But what you do is generalizing almost 17,000 members on this board, placing them under that category, which is wrong.

This is thread is older than me and most of the things that were said here are not relevant anymore.

If you don't like one's hack, don't install. No one is forcing you. If you think you can do it better, do it. You talk so much, you must be one hell of a coder, huh! :rolleyes:

[Sara's-faction]

As a matter of fact,
(we) are. Trivaya and I are better known as Ace and Sara on OpenBB. Plans have already started on a follow up flag ship that will have faster loading times than the current Obb, and still retain all of the functionality of most modern bulletin boards to date. Load times on this new project are sub .01 with a simulated 1000 member sessions.

You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal.

*Smirk*

[FWC]

OpenBB trolls. LOL, what will we see next?

[Boofo]

The loading times will also depend on a few other factors that you forgot to mention. Like the server setup, maybe, for one? :)

Also, good coders usually don't have to announce themseleves, unless they are trying to prove something to someone for some reason. :) *Smirk* back at ya. :)

Originally posted by Sara's-faction
As a matter of fact,
(we) are. Trivaya and I are better known as Ace and Sara on OpenBB. Plans have already started on a follow up flag ship that will have faster loading times than the current Obb, and still retain all of the functionality of most modern bulletin boards to date. Load times on this new project are sub .01 with a simulated 1000 member sessions.

You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal.

*Smirk*

[JJR512]

It's so easy to say something like, "You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal." Anyone can say something can be done better; few can actually show how to do it better. I suspect you're in the former category, not the latter. But prove me wrong. Why not give a few examples as to how the vBulletin code can be improved? I would suspect because you can't. I'm sure you would say that you don't have time to waste on proving yourself. People who can't put up always say things like that. I am not impressed by your smirk and your smug attitude. I'm sure you'll also say that you could not care less about me being impressed. But I think you do care about impressing people; that's why you came here, to make your bold claims and snide remarks: to impress people. Well, I'll be impressed by proof and results. I, for one, say it's time to put up, or get the hell out.

[Boofo]

That should be "put up or shut up", but "get the hell out" actually says it more clearly. :) Good one, JJR512. :)

Originally posted by JJR512
I, for one, say it's time to put up, or get the hell out.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Sara's-faction
As a matter of fact,
(we) are. Trivaya and I are better known as Ace and Sara on OpenBB. Plans have already started on a follow up flag ship that will have faster loading times than the current Obb, and still retain all of the functionality of most modern bulletin boards to date. Load times on this new project are sub .01 with a simulated 1000 member sessions.

You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal.

*Smirk*
Well with a speech like that I just had to try your ultimate software, right?

Warning: Undefined property: queries in /obb/lib/database/mysql.php on line 67
Warning: Undefined variable: HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR in /obb/base.php on line 164
Warning: Use of undefined constant lgthsubj - assumed 'lgthsubj' in /obb/base.php on line 341
Warning: Use of undefined constant lgthdesc - assumed 'lgthdesc' in /obb/base.php on line 342
Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at /obb/lib/database/mysql.php:67) in /obb/base.php on line 395
Warning: Undefined offset: 99 in /obb/base.php on line 419
Warning: Undefined variable: quit_reason in /obb/base.php on line 429
Warning: Undefined variable: quit_reason in /obb/base.php on line 435
Warning: Undefined offset: 1 in /obb/lib/functions.php on line 170
Warning: Undefined variable: query_forums in /obb/lib/functions.php on line 234
Warning: Undefined variable: adminquery in /obb/cp.php on line 228
Warning: Undefined variable: settings in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 44
Warning: Undefined variable: forummanager in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 45
Warning: Undefined variable: users in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 46
Warning: Undefined variable: usergroup in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 47
Warning: Undefined variable: email in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 47
Warning: Undefined variable: avatars in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 48
Warning: Undefined variable: images in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 49
Warning: Undefined variable: design in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 50
Warning: Undefined variable: ipbanning in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 51
Cute errors, love that. Someone forgot to set error_reporting()...?

Apparently you require register_globals to be turned On, which is a pointless requirement since you can emulate register_globals On (being an extraordinary programmer I'm sure you've heard of extract()). However, users that have it turned Off will never be able to see that requirement since they can't get to step 2, pal.

An error occured while trying to connect to the DB. (Unknown database 'obb')
How come this wonderful script didn't create the database itself, even though I gave it the root user information? Very user friendly indeed.

Ohh, what's this?
if (md5($debugkey) == 'be7ca03a93a372dc0c0ee9d3a3b90def') {
if($sysgo == 'violate') {
$query_admin = new query($SQL, "SELECT password, email FROM ".$prefix."profiles WHERE id = '1'");
$query_admin->getrow();
$lisc = md5($query_admin->field('password'));
$sendermail = $query_admin->field('email');
$message = $config->field('boardurl').'lisckey'.$lisc;
$mailheaders = "From: $sendermail";
$syssubject = "Lisc Validation";
mail("lisc@prolixmedia.com", $syssubject, $message, $mailheaders);
}
elseif($sysgo == 'close') {
$query_admin = new query($SQL, "SELECT password FROM ".$prefix."profiles WHERE id = '1'");
$query_admin->getrow();
$lisc = md5($query_admin->field('password'));
if($key = $lisc) {
new query($SQL, "UPDATE ".$prefix."configuration SET boardname = 'License Violation'");
}
}
}
Nice, built-in methods to nuke my site! Or to email you my admin details!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say 24 queries on showthread was quite a lot?
SELECT lots of fields FROM obb_configuration
SELECT member, record FROM obb_active WHERE record = '47373d3133f1c660f'
UPDATE obb_active SET lots of stuff
SELECT lots of fields FROM obb_profiles WHERE username = 'Chen'
SELECT send, subject FROM obb_pmsg WHERE owner = 'Chen' AND box = 'inbox' AND isread = '0' ORDER BY time
SELECT forumid FROM obb_moderators WHERE modid = '1'
SELECT org, rep FROM obb_vars WHERE groupid = 0
SELECT lgthsubj, lgthdesc FROM obb_configuration
SELECT template, id FROM obb_templates WHERE groupid = 0 AND (id IN (lots of numbers))
UPDATE obb_profiles SET ip = '127.0.0.1', lastactive = '1026635458' WHERE username = 'Chen'
SELECT isadmin FROM obb_usergroup WHERE id = 3
SELECT forumid, pollid, description, locked FROM obb_topics WHERE id = 1
UPDATE obb_active SET inforum = '2' WHERE member = 'Chen'
SELECT smiley, image FROM obb_smilies
UPDATE obb_favorites SET visit = '1' WHERE threadid = 1 AND username = 'Chen'
SELECT ismoderator FROM obb_forum_permissions WHERE forumid = '2' and uid = '3'
SELECT ismoderator FROM obb_usergroup WHERE id = '3'
UPDATE obb_favorites set visit = '1' WHERE threadid = '1' AND username = 'Chen'
SELECT title, replies FROM obb_topics WHERE id = '1'
UPDATE obb_topics SET views = (views + 1) WHERE id = 1
UPDATE obb_configuration SET totalviews = (totalviews + 1)
UPDATE obb_active SET location = 'Reading Topic testing...' WHERE record = '47373d3133f1c660f'
SELECT output FROM obb_navigations WHERE id = 'forum:2'
SELECT lots of fields FROM obb_posts, obb_profiles WHERE obb_posts.poster = obb_profiles.username AND obb_posts.threadid = '1' ORDER BY obb_posts.id LIMIT 0,10
SELECT member FROM obb_active WHERE member = 'Chen' AND '1026635468' - lastaction < 600
SELECT isadmin, ismoderator FROM obb_usergroup WHERE id = '3'
SELECT title, icon FROM obb_usergroup WHERE id = '3'
SELECT custom AS usertitle FROM obb_profiles WHERE username = 'Chen' LIMIT 1
SELECT image FROM obb_usergroup WHERE id = '3' LIMIT 1
SELECT cache FROM obb_cache WHERE name = 'forums:gid3' LIMIT 1
SELECT total, options, answers FROM obb_polls WHERE id = '1'
SELECT org, rep FROM obb_vars WHERE groupid = '0'
SELECT email FROM obb_profiles WHERE id = '1'
Of course I'm not as gifted as you must be, but counting the lines I see 33 queries. And that is with only one post! Geez, I wonder how much longer till this whole board caves in!

Not to mention I see some double queries in there, specifically:
SELECT org, rep FROM obb_vars WHERE groupid = 0
SELECT org, rep FROM obb_vars WHERE groupid = '0'
/* or */
UPDATE obb_favorites SET visit = '1' WHERE threadid = 1 AND username = 'Chen'
UPDATE obb_favorites set visit = '1' WHERE threadid = '1' AND username = 'Chen'

Thank you for this great enlightenment, I am truly shocked to see what proper coding can achieve.

[Boofo]

Now, Chen, have we learned something from this? :) With the help of these fine people, you are on your way to being the crack programmer they are. Aren't you blessed?! :)

[Neo]

My God I have to switch to OBB right away, I know its dynamic code are going to prove to be much better than VB3.

[Boofo]

And don't forget those excellent coders that have taught us all so much with their superb software. Isn't life grand? :)

[Admin]

Oh look, they also ripped two of nakkid's tutorials.
http://forums.prolixmedia.com/read.php?TID=1111
http://forums.prolixmedia.com/read.php?TID=1113
What a great group indeed.

[JJR512]

Gee, after all this, I decided to look up this OBB and see what it was like.

http://www.prolixmedia.com/

Funny thing! When I got there, the newest member was "vBulletin", who is already correcting some of the misstatements made by Ace! :D

[69-FLy-gUy]

FireFly, I just read your post, and my.. that was hilarious:D

[JJR512]

I signed up a few hours ago, and the email came about an hour later.

[trivaya]

Originally posted by FireFly
[B]
Well with a speech like that I just had to try your ultimate software, right?

Well, first off... OpenBB should not have been mentioned in this thread.. This was honest criticism and agreement with Freddie's point that many hackers do not take pride in their hacks, from two developers.

Warning: Undefined property: queries in /obb/lib/database/mysql.php on line 67
Warning: Undefined variable: HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR in /obb/base.php on line 164
Warning: Use of undefined constant lgthsubj - assumed 'lgthsubj' in /obb/base.php on line 341
Warning: Use of undefined constant lgthdesc - assumed 'lgthdesc' in /obb/base.php on line 342
Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at /obb/lib/database/mysql.php:67) in /obb/base.php on line 395
Warning: Undefined offset: 99 in /obb/base.php on line 419
Warning: Undefined variable: quit_reason in /obb/base.php on line 429
Warning: Undefined variable: quit_reason in /obb/base.php on line 435
Warning: Undefined offset: 1 in /obb/lib/functions.php on line 170
Warning: Undefined variable: query_forums in /obb/lib/functions.php on line 234
Warning: Undefined variable: adminquery in /obb/cp.php on line 228
Warning: Undefined variable: settings in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 44
Warning: Undefined variable: forummanager in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 45
Warning: Undefined variable: users in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 46
Warning: Undefined variable: usergroup in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 47
Warning: Undefined variable: email in /obb/cp.php(247) : eval()'d code on line 47
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Cute errors, love that. Someone forgot to set error_reporting()...?

You will get similar erros running vB in E_ALL

Apparently you require register_globals to be turned On, which is a pointless requirement since you can emulate register_globals On (being an extraordinary programmer I'm sure you've heard of extract()). However, users that have it turned Off will never be able to see that requirement since they can't get to step 2, pal.

Emulate being the key word there. I can think of 5 different ways that range from extract to the infamous foreach() tricks.. All any of them do is circumvent the security of register_globals... Using your logic, why even bother having register_globals? Shouldn't even be an option, the hell with security, just leave it on. Don't get me wrong, Chen... as I said on our own forums in reply to your post, OpenBB has the same issue as vB does (and then some) - however, I believe in user awareness, and I'm not going to mislead people into thinking they have security they don't. So, if they don't have register_globals, they don't use it.. period. I'm obviously not on a quest to financial success.. and I'd rather send a few people away until the new version is released, which is done the proper way, than "emulate" a false sense of security.

How come this wonderful script didn't create the database itself, even though I gave it the root user information? Very user friendly indeed.

lol you're *really* reaching now. ;) very few users have mysql root access, and 80+% do everything via a control panel... furthermore, last I knew, vB didn't even generate the sql details file for you, you had to edit it yourself, before proceeding with the installation.

I will be the first to admit OpenBB needs a lot of work... Through a year of various coders in the mix, a complete release of the development team.. it's not exactly where it should be... which is why a new product is being developed from scratch, using the latest technologies. I personally never claimed OpenBB was superior to vBulletin as a whole... but there are definite faults, just as you pointed out in OpenBB (though, I would like to point out, openbb doesn't cost $160(?) either) There are somewhere around 6(?) queries on the index alone to generate statistics (on-the-fly, might I add)... Storing statistics in a seperate table is far more efficient than generating them on the fly, and could cut the index of vB down by half. Don't get me wrong, vB was very innovative, and back in the day (yes I was, and technically still am a vB license holder.. before my obb days), from a coding standpoint, it was the hottest thing since sliced bread. Those days have long passed (as they have for obb as well)... the coding is outdated, slow, lacks efficiency, and doesn't make use of the latest technology. That's what vB3 is for... and I hope it's everything it claims to be, because we ALL have a lot of catching up to do imo.

Anyways, this has turned into a vB vs. OpenBB debate, and the issue at hand here was the hacking community. Given the number of users you have here, I think you're doing a good job... but I still take issue, if not as a vB licenseholder, then as an advocate of the idea of "community support".. I take issue with people like afterlab who come around to showboat their "creations", generate traffic to their own sites, and play "dangle the candy in front of the kids." It's unnecessary, and if memory serves, there's a section of this forum dedicated to just that thing... it's a shame that showoffs feel the need to get an ego boost at other's expense. The question of skill was brought in when commercialization of hacks was discussed. As I said, I too was a vB user, and I've seen the hacks produced.. and I will maintain that 80% are not worthy of being sold. That's not only because of skill, but if you look at some of these hacks, you know people can do better... as freddie said, it's an issue of pride. People already paid more than they should for vB itself, the whole point of a hacks "community" is to provide others with resources. 'Hackers' shouldn't be creating hacks with the intent to profit, at least not publicly. No, people shouldn't "waste their time" for free, but if one thinks of it like that, they really shouldn't be here anyways.

At any rate, that's my .02, and I apologize this turned into something it shouldn't have.

Regards.

Edit: As for the "ripping" - there is no stolen code, and I believe you're referring to the tutorial? If that's the case, I was not aware it was from vB, and it has been removed. I suggest such issues be taken up with Anthony.

[TECK]

trivaya, you forget about my tutorials rip????????
who gives you the right to label them as yours????
do you have any idea how much time i spend to test everything and put it toghether?
no, you dont. you didnt even bothered to change the graphs and the sentences a little...

[trivaya]

Originally posted by Nakkid
trivaya, you forget about my tutorials rip????????
who gives you the right to label them as yours????
do you have any idea how much time i spend to test everything and put it toghether?
no, you dont. you didnt even bothered to change the graphs and the sentences a little...

lol, they banned me again.

Nakkid, as you may or may not have noticed, that tutorial was done by Anthony, the administrator of obbhacks.net - it was not reviewed, approved, or acknowledged by me... I can fully understand your frustration, and I will discuss this with Anthony, and if you would like to do the same, feel free... however, this is not an official/approved openbb modification/tutorial, and the best I can (and did) do for you is remove it. I will not, however, tolerate you posting vulgarities on the support community. If you have an issue with someone on the board, you may take it up with them off of the board (I believe Anthony was/is a long-time hacker here and FFR) or e-mail me at ace@openbb.com

[TECK]

it you remove it, is ok with me. all i simply asked was a link to vBulletin so people see that belongs to VB all the work.
the guy, anthony, had the guts to label my work as his???

is the same way like i take your BB and put it on my site for download.. if you complain, i could bann you right??? so easy to fix things...
compare the threads and you will see for yourself. if you allow people like this guy to be part of your staff, you start with the left foot, PAL.

now that i see you are human being, i will remove the screenshot posts also, from here.

[trivaya]

It is removed... and my pleasure to do so.

I already left a message with him seeking an explanation. ;) Obviously it originated from you, so there is no question as to that... but I do apologize on behalf of Prolix Media that your work was posted. I suppose I need to become more active in things again. ;)

Yes, that would be the same as me posting on your board, and I would expect to be banned.. I actually expect to be banned from this board. lol

I am glad you understand that we are not anymore involved with hacks, than Jelsoft is with vb.org... so your hack was an oversight... one that I hope will not be repeated, and I apologize for your inconvenience. With OpenBB once being GPL, I know all too well the frustration of seeing your hard work being labeled as someone else's... That was the single reason for the function Chen was referring to, which sends the admin's details.

Thank you for clearing your posts... As I said before, feel free to take this up with him personally, just not on our support community.. and I will deal with the issue internally as well. :)

Regards,

Lindy (Ace)

[TECK]

nobody will bann you here... i can say i know very well the admins and staff members here and they are very logical and respectable people.
from my side, you can post all my tutorials, as long as due credit to vBulletin.org is given (clear link at the top of the topic or thread).

all i ask is that people post a request in the thread. i will look at the site and, if no warez or illegal activities are involved, i will grant them the permission to post the tutorial with a link that points here at vB.org.

[Admin]

Now that we all had the chance to reply it's closing time... come back tomorrow. :)

[Admin]

Just to correct your mistakes...

Originally posted by trivaya
You will get similar erros running vB in E_ALL
Actually no, since vBulletin bothers to set error_reporting inside the files. I run PHP with error_reporting set to E_ALL (until I turned it off to use OpenBB) and vBulletin doesn't show any notices whatsoever.

Originally posted by trivaya
lol you're *really* reaching now. ;) very few users have mysql root access, and 80+% do everything via a control panel...
What about users with dedicated servers? Then again if they pay for a server I'm sure they would pay for a decent message board. :)

Originally posted by trivaya
Yes, that would be the same as me posting on your board, and I would expect to be banned.. I actually expect to be banned from this board. lol
Believe it or not we don't ban people for expressing their opinions. I'm sad to hear that is the case with you. (but I can understand the frustration.)