Misc/Other - vBulletin.Org Staff

[Paul M]

As many of you will know, vbulletin.org has always prided itself on being an independant site, making its own choices, and chosing its own staff (all of who are unpaid volunteers).

Unfortunately, this all changed four weeks ago.

Having left employment with IB the week before, I made it clear I intended to keep up my role as Administrator here - a position I was appointed to way back in September 2006, almost five years before I ever worked at Internet Brands.

However, on 2nd June 2017 (while I was away on holiday) I was (on the instructions of IB Management) removed from my Administrator role, and demoted to Moderator (by IB staff, not by our other admins, Lynne and Princeton). The reason given to me was that I am "no longer employed by IB".

This is despite the fact that IB employment and staff positions here have never been linked.

The staff here are all angry, and for the last few weeks we have tried to get IB management to see this isnt the right thing to have done.
They have refused to change the decision, and so it is with much regret that myself, and most of the existing staff are in the process of stepping down.

Over the next few weeks, Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and myself (Paul M) will all be stepping down.

Lynne has also announced she is resigning from vB Support.

My understanding is that TheLastSuperman intends to stay on for the moment (so really will be the Last (super) Man standing).

I believe our advisor Dave is also remaining for the moment.

I'm afraid I do not know what the future holds for vbulletin.org, or who from IB will be running it.
However, it has become clear it is no longer "our" site to run - as has previously been done for the last 15+ years.

[BirdOPrey5]

It has been a privilege to serve as a Moderator here and to be a part of so many people's forums in one way or another. I'm not necessarily abandoning vBulletin.org completely (unless I get banned for some reason) but you can find me on my main forum, juot.net, or I may hopefully get my VB Mods site cleaned up at qapla.com/mods/. My twitter is @BirdOPrey5.

I will miss a free and independent vBulletin.org. 156503

[Mandushi]

I'm sorry you're leaving

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Without you vbulletin.org does not exist

[MarkFL]

I too feel it has been a great privilege to serve as a moderator here. I learned a great deal from folks here, and met quite a few good people. It's a real shame all that has been ruined.

I am in the process of moving support for my products to the site in my signature...once I have completed the process, I will update my signature with a direct link.

[zappaDPJ]

Although I don't generally post here, I do spend a fair amount of time browsing and I'd just like to say to everyone stepping down, thank you for all your contributions to this forum. I have no doubt you will all be greatly missed.

[zethon]

I would like to offer my services to be an admin or moderator! I've been using vBulletin since 2004, written several mods and am pals with a (former) staff member.

[RichieBoy67]

This is terrible....

[KevinL]

This is terrible....

Very much so...

[BGObsession]

There is not a staff member on this list who has not helped me repeatedly over the years. This sucks. Seems like an unnecessary and destructive decision. Forum communities are supposed to be about the members who support them, not about petty politics or power struggles.

Pretty shabby treatment of folks who have selflessly given of their time, energy, and love over countless years.

I think many will find other resources for their vB help.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

[mathforum]

Sad news but respect to the staff for standing up to bad practices. I hope something good can come of this on another site.

[Lynne]

It was not easy for me to make the decision to leave since I really do love this community. This is the place where I learned to love vbulletin and what it could do for my site. In learning, I found that I loved to teach and help also. I will miss helping out here a LOT! I am very thankful to Paul, Princeton, and Hanson taking me on as an Advisior back in 2008 and giving me a place to have so much fun in learning.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

Believe me, we have tried for the last three weeks to change their decision - they won't suddenly do the right thing.

[TheAdminMarket]

Long story, short:

Since 2006 I was serving community members with my Free Mods
But as this site will starts operating by the company,
I'm no willing to support them

** File Removed **


Thank you all (especially Lynne) for your support.

More than 4 years ago have wrote:
"vBulletin.org should not exists at least the way that is operating now (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=296704&highlight=teller)".
Don't say that I'm happy with what happen but somehow I was a fortune teller.

[CAG CheechDogg]

Just wow ... can't say I didn't see this coming .... really sucks when there is no compromise between 2 sides to keep something good going ... sorry guys, thanks for all the help throughout the years, it was and is still very much welcomed and appreciated ....

[paradoxG(r)eek]

I would like to offer my services to be an admin or moderator! I've been using vBulletin since 2004, written several mods and am pals with a (former) staff member.

:confused: I'm speechless with your post !!

[BirdOPrey5]

Obviously people need to do what they feel is right, but I urge you, even if you will stop supporting them, leave your mods up if you can. You aren't hurting IB, they don't care. You're only hurting existing customers who can't get refunds and are no different than any of us were our first days/weeks/months on vBulletin.

I haven't given up all hope. As of 5AM Eastern Time only one small change is needed to the staff page to set things right again-

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=staff

[Kane@airrifle]

IB really are gifted strategic thinkers :rolleyes:

Thank you Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and Paul M for your selfless dedication to helping us on here over the years; I have lost count of how many times you have saved my skin and sanity.

Also, I have mods & fixes installed from almost all of you which imho have made VB 4.x exponentially better.

[paradoxG(r)eek]

...leave your mods up if you can.
Joe are you reffering to me?

[BirdOPrey5]

Joe are you reffering to me?

I'm referring to everyone reading this, including fellow (former?) staffers. I'm keeping my mods on the site, they should all be considered unsupported, but they will stay up as long as this site wants them. My concern is for the innocent user who has been using a mod for a while and needs to redownload a copy for whatever reason, I've been one of those users and clicked on the link in Product Manager only to find some mod no longer available because the coder had disagreements with the direction of the company. I'm not going to be one of those coders. But that's just me. I would ask others join me, but I understand those who cannot.

[paradoxG(r)eek]

I'm referring to everyone reading this, including fellow (former?) staffers..

As for me, I'm very strict on my moral values (without any mean that other who are doing the opposite, they don't have their own values). What happen with IB and all of you there, I count it as a back-kick. My English don't allow me to explain it deeper as I don't know the rights words to use to express my feelings.

As long as this site will stops working with people that I know (even just as names), and will be controlling by company's staff, sorry, this is no place for me anymore.

Leaving my work here, while I'll be away, is not wise as I don't know how they'll use them (the mods). If someone wants to find my mods, he knows where to find me.

[MarkFL]

...I'm keeping my mods on the site, they should all be considered unsupported, but they will stay up as long as this site wants them...

Same here. I would also urge everyone who has published any products here to take some time to consider your decision regarding whether you are going to leave your work here or not. In the end, I respect everyone's right to make their own decision of course, but I ask that this decision not be made in haste. :)

[paradoxG(r)eek]

Same here. I would also urge everyone who has published any products here to take some time to consider your decision regarding whether you are going to leave your work here or not. In the end, I respect everyone's right to make their own decision of course, but I ask that this decision not be made in haste. :)

As long as from now on vbulletin.org -> vbulletin.com, I'm out. In a couple of days my mods should be again available for free download but in another site for Forum Admins. To avoid breaking the TOS, I'm not posting the link, but sure you'll find it.

[In Omnibus]

Internet Brands seems to be consciously seeking out new ways to decimate the future of the vBulletin product. To what end?

vBulletin 4.x would never have become a viable product without each and every one of the staff here at vBulletin.org. Some thanks this is for seven years of blood, sweat and tears on that product and those which came before it.

It's clearly and convincingly all about the vB5.x product now. None of the people named work exclusively or primarily on that product and so were deemed dispensable.

I know this has been stated by others here and previously but the contributions of the vB.org staff to the vBulletin forum community cannot be overstated.

A personal thank you to each of you for making this product the best it could be despite opposition.

Each of you will be sorely missed.

[49er]

I would like to offer my services to be an admin or moderator! I've been using vBulletin since 2004, written several mods and am pals with a (former) staff member.

Did you check all the pockets?

[Zylantex]

Speaking as someone who has relied on this site to improve the user experience of my own sites, this is a disaster both for vB and for the individuals concerned. I say this because I was a senior mod on a major site and got shafted by the owner. I still can't put the betrayal behind me.

[Dave]

I hope IB will change their mind before it's too late, but I have a feeling they will not do that.

vbulletin.org is a very important site and is probably one of the reasons why some people choose for vBulletin instead of other forum software. Personally I chose for vBulletin because it provided all the plugins and modifications that I was looking for, I even forward clients of mine to this site when they are considering to get vBulletin.

Without this site and the current staff team, I'm afraid it will turn into void.

[BGObsession]

With vbulletin saying version 4.2.5 will be the last upgrade for that version, and not wanting to go to what seems like a very different platform in version 5, this nonsense will likely push me to move on from vBulletin entirely. This site has served as the core support forum for vBulletin users for many years. Allowing a decades worth of expertise to leave over some silly and petty issue of control is just blatantly disrespectful to the membership of this community and those of us who have invested thousands of dollars over the years in vB products and add-ons.

Top tier companies do not actively alienate their own customers.

[ChloeDione]

Obviously people need to do what they feel is right, but I urge you, even if you will stop supporting them, leave your mods up if you can. You aren't hurting IB, they don't care. You're only hurting existing customers who can't get refunds and are no different than any of us were our first days/weeks/months on vBulletin.


This is what pisses me off the most ; I could easily have about 30 to 40 coders and sites pull their support from here and transfer to a different software (even if it was free to use and not so good) but in the end it will hurt those who paid for this software more than anything.

Paul was the single best thing that VB has ever had / seen and to lose that due to such a self inflicted wound by IB is absurd ; they just won't listen to reason. I have made my own feelings clear over the last several weeks but like you said, I can't follow through in executing this all as it will just hurt a bunch of innocent users / start up sites.

:mad::mad::mad:

--------------- Added 1498936714 at 1498936714 ---------------

I hope IB will change their mind before it's too late, but I have a feeling they will not do that.

vbulletin.org is a very important site and is probably one of the reasons why some people choose for vBulletin instead of other forum software. Personally I chose for vBulletin because it provided all the plugins and modifications that I was looking for, I even forward clients of mine to this site when they are considering to get vBulletin.

Without this site and the current staff team, I'm afraid it will turn into void.

Agreed, VB is dead without you all.

I suppose in theory, their behavior makes sense. They are trying their best to remove free modifications as much as possible (for 5) so a place like this (offering so much instrumental support and help) hurts their back pocket / bottom dollar.

God are they about to find out how wrong they have it / how such a boycott will destroy them.

[motorhaven]

This is what pisses me off the most ; I could easily have about 30 to 40 coders and sites pull their support from here and transfer to a different software (even if it was free to use and not so good) but in the end it will hurt those who paid for this software more than anything.

Maybe that is what needs to happen so the holdouts migrate to something else and what's left of VB shrinking market evaporates.

[pokesph]

RIP vB.org, you will never be the same and we will miss you greatly.

[lapiervb]

I think most of us gave up on IB a few years ago. I have one forum left on vb4... vb will never be on option and now it appears I will have to accelerate to move away from my last vb4 forum.

[alcazarx]

Have to agree to all posters before.
Me does not write anything "own" here, because this would me not only get banned here... :mad:

[TheLastSuperman]

Hey everyone, I'm actually very depressed over this truth be told but please don't let this turn into a vB/IB Bashfest, I simply won't allow it, we've always tried to prevent that and will continue to do so even in this thread. If you want to comment and let everyone know how much they're loved and will be missed then sure but we simply wanted to give all of you a heads up that changes are coming, this does not mean the end but certainly feels like it sadly.

[Sean James]

As many of you will know, vbulletin.org has always prided itself on being an independant site, making its own choices, and chosing its own staff (all of who are unpaid volunteers).

Unfortunately, this all changed four weeks ago.

Having left employment with IB the week before, I made it clear I intended to keep up my role as Administrator here - a position I was appointed to way back in September 2006, almost five years before I ever worked at Internet Brands.

However, on 2nd June 2017 (while I was away on holiday) I was (on the instructions of IB Management) removed from my Administrator role, and demoted to Moderator (by IB staff, not by our other admins, Lynne and Princeton). The reason given to me was that I am "no longer employed by IB".

This is despite the fact that IB employment and staff positions here have never been linked.

The staff here are all angry, and for the last few weeks we have tried to get IB management to see this isnt the right thing to have done.
They have refused to change the decision, and so it is with much regret that myself, and most of the existing staff are in the process of stepping down.

Over the next few weeks, Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and myself (Paul M) will all be stepping down.

Lynne has also announced she is resigning from vB Support.

My understanding is that TheLastSuperman intends to stay on for the moment (so really will be the Last (super) Man standing).

I believe our advisor Dave is also remaining for the moment.

I'm afraid I do not know what the future holds for vbulletin.org, or who from IB will be running it.
However, it has become clear it is no longer "our" site to run - as has previously been done for the last 15+ years.

Sad to hear :(, You guys done great work and always supported me when needed.
All the best!

[rhody401]

A sincere THANK YOU to all who have volunteered and are stepping down.

The direction of the product and IB are not looking healthy AT ALL, in my opinion. They've chased away most of the customers, now the staff. It took too many years for VB5 to become a viable/stable product, and it wasn't until recently that it started to be something I would consider. (I did buy it a few years ago, but went back) Meanwhile, vb4 was left to age and become stale. Meanwhile, Facebook and the competition have kept innovating.

I think maybe a different pricing model would have been healthier for the company, like Xenforo has, with a reasonable yearly fee that supports ongoing development. The current method starves the company at the very time they need the resources to put out a new version number that lets them collect money again, so it comes up short of its goals. (or at least that's how it looks to this customer)

THANK YOU to the volunteers!

[djbaxter]

A perfect example of corporate blind stupidity.

IB Brands has no idea what they are losing. They just fired the final shot into their own foot.

[Robb M.]

shocked. emailing Lisa.

[nw-fotografie]

Sadly news to read! The wonderful people here were one of our main reasons and points to stay at least with one licence left for vb 3.x from at all three vb licences in the past 12 years.

I want to say a big THANKYOU for all you did in the past for us!

[RichieBoy67]

I would like to ask everyone to speak up about this.

As a long time member here I do not plan on sitting back without at least sending an email or two to the people that could fix this. I hope others will do the same.

I cannot really see myself participating here any longer without the good people that have educated me, the people I know, like and trust.

[In Omnibus]

I would like to ask everyone to speak up about this.

As a long time member here I do not plan on sitting back without at least sending an email or two to the people that could fix this. I hope others will do the same.

I cannot really see myself participating here any longer without the good people that have educated me, the people I know, like and trust.

Those people have been by and large remiss to give us so much as the time of day. Lawrence Cole may have been the last IB three letter acronym with whom one could at least hold a discussion, even if he didn't see eye-to-eye or felt his hands were tied.

IB is so proud of the vBulletin product that it doesn't even appear under any of the "Our Brands" tabs on their main website.

The list of people who will never give us the time of day includes but is not limited to Robert Brisco, Scott Friedman, Chuck Hoover, Lisa Morita, Joe Rosenblum, B. Lynn Walsh, Gregory Perrier, and the person specifically brought in to repair the sinking ship that is vBulletin 5, Marjo Mercado.

This is not a "bashfest" as someone recently termed it. This is straight fact.

In any business, if you want to fix a product, you speak with the consumers or customers who purchase the product. IB has never done that. They have always used their customer support team as human shields against any criticism, constructive or otherwise.

vBulletin is one spoke in a very large IB wheel, and the evidence is clear an convincing they couldn't care less if the spoke is tightened or falls off.

That's why the customer support team is so important and valuable to the product. They actually do care. Every one of them has gone far above and beyond what IB would have allowed had there been a standard operating procedure or a manual. The staff here has saved more customers than vBulletin 5 has created or ever will create.

If the facts are a bashfest then maybe IB should have handled things differently.

[ChloeDione]

Hey everyone, I'm actually very depressed over this truth be told but please don't let this turn into a vB/IB Bashfest, I simply won't allow it, we've always tried to prevent that and will continue to do so even in this thread.

So, I have been pondering how to reply to this - my apologies in advance for any offense I cause. Whether or not I am accurate, I have no clue, but the optics on this....is another matter.

You're a great guy, so I don't mean this personally but of what has been indicated is that you are one of only two remaining on the team, for now. Yet, at the same time, just about every other person here has called VB / IB out on their turd of a choice - you are the only one here who is arguing their side / defending them.

I am not saying that it is the case, but the optics look like you're the one person staying on, and doing their bidding. They have you staying on, and the puppet masters are pulling the strings already. That is a very harsh line to say if I am wrong, so if I am I sincerely apologize but just look at the way it looks. Do they care about the position it likely leaves you in now? I think we all know that they don't. No matter whether it is accurate or not, you are now being left out there to hang because the perception is now likely worse than the reality. The way forums operate, it will be difficult to salvage a reputation out of this.

You said that you didn't want this to turn into an IB / VB bash fest - what did you expect? For people to agree with the decision? People to respectfully disagree and continue to spend on licenses, support and additional software?

Like you said, you are depressed about this, which is totally understandable? The fact that everyone else is, and angry seems reasonable (for them) to be allowed to air their grievance, no? Their hurt and depression is just as (if not more) recognizable / to be recognized as anyone else.

I know that it is not my place to ask this, but you said that you simply wouldn't allow it to continue - so I guess I would ask other staff to leave it to your call. If you think my post is so out of line, remove it. If you think that I am not worthy to remain here, boot me. At this point TLS, you can be the arbitrator given that just about everyone else cannot stomach what IB is doing to VB yet you are telling everyone not to bash them. By all means, everyone can accept that it is not your or anyone else to blame on the VBorg staff.

At the same time though, please let the users who paid for this software air their displeasure at the decision. After all, it is only in defense of those of you that are admins and mods on here that everyone is so angry ; not for themselves, but for you.

If you want to comment and let everyone know how much they're loved and will be missed then sure but we simply wanted to give all of you a heads up that changes are coming, this does not mean the end but certainly feels like it sadly.

TLS, I have to ask you (not meaning to be flippant) but if Paul is not re-instated to the role(s) that he held previously, what other possible outcome could there be other than, "the end"?

It is in the love that everyone feels for all of you that some of this ill temper and grief is coming out. Because nobody thinks that it is fair the way that you have been treated. More than any money that any of us have put into the site, it is the love for you as people that has indeed hurt so many ; not because of anything that you have done but because seeing someone you care about being treated so badly is going to hurt, no matter who you are.

Again, if I have inaccurately portrayed any of this, my apologies and if you think my post rises to the level of IB bashing that you talk of, then please do remove it / and or me if you see the need, but please, you make the call. If you think my message is out of line, then you make the call.

[TheLastSuperman]

So, I have been pondering how to reply to this - my apologies in advance for any offense I cause. Whether or not I am accurate, I have no clue, but the optics on this....is another matter.

You're a great guy, so I don't mean this personally but of what has been indicated is that you are one of only two remaining on the team, for now. Yet, at the same time, just about every other person here has called VB / IB out on their turd of a choice - you are the only one here who is arguing their side / defending them.

I am not saying that it is the case, but the optics look like you're the one person staying on, and doing their bidding. They have you staying on, and the puppet masters are pulling the strings already. That is a very harsh line to say if I am wrong, so if I am I sincerely apologize but just look at the way it looks. Do they care about the position it likely leaves you in now? I think we all know that they don't. No matter whether it is accurate or not, you are now being left out there to hang because the perception is now likely worse than the reality. The way forums operate, it will be difficult to salvage a reputation out of this.



Bidding? I'm sure glad those resigning know me and know that is not the case! I joined this community to be helpful from day one and nothing has ever changed about that, I can't just leave the ORG, that would mean I'd be losing all of the people listed above AND all of you! I'm still here but don't think I may not change my mind, everyone has a right to change their mind and their opinions as they see fit.

You said that you didn't want this to turn into an IB / VB bash fest - what did you expect? For people to agree with the decision? People to respectfully disagree and continue to spend on licenses, support and additional software?

Like you said, you are depressed about this, which is totally understandable? The fact that everyone else is, and angry seems reasonable (for them) to be allowed to air their grievance, no? Their hurt and depression is just as (if not more) recognizable / to be recognized as anyone else.

I know that it is not my place to ask this, but you said that you simply wouldn't allow it to continue - so I guess I would ask other staff to leave it to your call. If you think my post is so out of line, remove it. If you think that I am not worthy to remain here, boot me. At this point TLS, you can be the arbitrator given that just about everyone else cannot stomach what IB is doing to VB yet you are telling everyone not to bash them. By all means, everyone can accept that it is not your or anyone else to blame on the VBorg staff.

At the same time though, please let the users who paid for this software air their displeasure at the decision. After all, it is only in defense of those of you that are admins and mods on here that everyone is so angry ; not for themselves, but for you.

I think you misunderstood, so did Omnibus by referring to my bashfest comment - Basically don't come in here saying vB4 is dead, well yeah guys we're on vB5 right now what do you expect vB4 to be, in development? Don't come in here and say vB5 sucks or is crap, that is a matter of opinion and perspective just like all of you being upset over this and while I wasn't too happy when it first hit vB5 has shown major improvements, its stable, and does a fantastic job as forum software. Being upset and venting in a constructive manner by being positive and saying thanks to those leaving for all their years of service is an entirely different story. Voice your opinion sure but try to keep it clean and focused properly is all I wanted done, to see this thread more as a farewell to those we love than something negative, hope that clarifies ;).

TLS, I have to ask you (not meaning to be flippant) but if Paul is not re-instated to the role(s) that he held previously, what other possible outcome could there be other than, "the end"?

Well that depends on what vBulletin decides next, I'm not sure what the outcome of this will be at this point. I'd love to see the ORG stay open, some new staff come in that way it doesn't die, if vb.com continues w/ the "ask on the org for customization" or similar the org will still be needed for those customers thinking outside the box.

It is in the love that everyone feels for all of you that some of this ill temper and grief is coming out. Because nobody thinks that it is fair the way that you have been treated. More than any money that any of us have put into the site, it is the love for you as people that has indeed hurt so many ; not because of anything that you have done but because seeing someone you care about being treated so badly is going to hurt, no matter who you are.

Aye ya I hear you there but again back to my comment above ^ where it needs to be constructive more than bashing and I was more referring to the product itself. If you look at past threads, we've always allowed opinions just not bashing.

Again, if I have inaccurately portrayed any of this, my apologies and if you think my post rises to the level of IB bashing that you talk of, then please do remove it / and or me if you see the need, but please, you make the call. If you think my message is out of line, then you make the call.

You did but guess what? You perceived what you thought I was thinking, we can always believe someone thinks one thing but never know until we ask, thanks for asking and I hope my replies helped you see more how I was looking at this.

Edit: Meanwhile I still continue to see Lynne, Paul, and others posting replies and being helpful, thanks for truly staying until the end!

[NumNum]

IB is so proud of the vBulletin product that it doesn't even appear under any of the "Our Brands" tabs on their main website.

Makes you wonder why they fund it, or for how much longer.

A clear disrespect for the staff that do such great work.

[DieselMinded]

Many good memories , thank all of you for what you have done for this community , vb got me into forums back in the day i even had a BOTM here :). I've said my goodbyes to vb as i have moved on to other platforms simply based on innovation and adaption. I'll never forget this site or the people with in and RIP Peggy too!

Good Bye Everyone From - DieselMinded/fixer/Chad

[In Omnibus]

Makes you wonder why they fund it, or for how much longer.

A clear disrespect for the staff that do such great work.

If they're selling the vBulletin brand I would like a fair opportunity to purchase it.

I'll leave it at that.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Wow. It's not like we didn't see this coming though right?? But wow. Mind = Blown. Incredibly ridiculous decision by IB who seemingly are trying to destroy one of the greatest talking points of vBulletin the script: the vBulletin.org community.

To that end, I say RIP vBulletin :(

J.

[Dismounted]

I've so far kept out of this thread, as you would understand. Thought I'd chime in to say a quick "thank you" to you all for not only supporting us (the staff), but perhaps more importantly, the passion with which you speak about our community here.

I would have never imagined still being around in 2017 when I first joined in 2005. It's been a pleasure and privilege to serve the community as a member of staff - this month actually marks my 10 year anniversary as vB.org staff!

As has been mentioned by others, it wasn't an easy decision to step down, but given the circumstances, I feel that this is the right decision to make. Nonetheless, it is here where I first dipped my toes into software development and hence, vB.org has in part shaped my studies and career path. For that, I am very thankful to members of the community both past and present.

As for my modifications, I will not be taking any down. For the benefit of our members, they will remain, albeit in an unsupported state, for as long as vB.org is around. I'll also still occasionally lurk around the forum!

So long, and thanks for all the fish! :)
For those that are confused, this is a reference to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[JacquiiDesigns]

I'm afraid my original comment may have been a bit curt. I'm afraid my emotions may have gotten the better of me while I was feeling a bit dumbfounded by the announcements. What I didn't mean to leave out is this: I started my journey with forum scripts back in 2006 and vBulletin was the goto for starting online communities. It's been an interesting ride. I've received a LOT of assistance over the years from a lot of well-meaning individuals and like to think that I have offered assistance whenever I could. In this aspect - the vB.org community has been stellar and an over-all great experience.

I won't mention any names - but would just like to say this ==> A HUGE thank you to those of you who have spent your valuable, personal time in building the community, volunteering to sustain it when it seemed the new owners of the vB script didn't (and apparently still don't) have the inclination to do so themselves. Your dedication and community service have not gone unnoticed by yours truly.

Much appreciation to you guys and may your next venture(s) be satisfying and your hard work and dedication = rewarded! Cheers from Tennessee.

J.

[CAG CheechDogg]

The more I read in this thread the more bummed out I get .... really sucks !!

[In Omnibus]

The more I read in this thread the more bummed out I get .... really sucks !!

Forum software isn't the cash cow it once was. Since all IB cares about is the cash ...

Ask not for whom the cowbell tolls. It tolls for thee.

[blind-eddie]

I'm afraid my original comment may have been a bit curt. I'm afraid my emotions may have gotten the better of me while I was feeling a bit dumbfounded by the announcements. What I didn't mean to leave out is this: I started my journey with forum scripts back in 2006 and vBulletin was the goto for starting online communities. It's been an interesting ride. I've received a LOT of assistance over the years from a lot of well-meaning individuals and like to think that I have offered assistance whenever I could. In this aspect - the vB.org community has been stellar and an over-all great experience.

I won't mention any names - but would just like to say this ==> A HUGE thank you to those of you who have spent your valuable, personal time in building the community, volunteering to sustain it when it seemed the new owners of the vB script didn't (and apparently still don't) have the inclination to do so themselves. Your dedication and community service have not gone unnoticed by yours truly.

Much appreciation to you guys and may your next venture(s) be satisfying and your hard work and dedication = rewarded! Cheers from Tennessee.

J.

I have been at a loss for words to reply to this thread but, I think you spoke for me here, Thanks JacquiiDesigns!
It will be interesting to see what happens. God speed everyone, just incase vb.org vanishes. It has been a great experience learning the many things this community/Staff has taught me.

Tim

[Simon Lloyd]

I'm not one to bicker or comment on the "He said, she said" debacle but having just read this thread in it's entirety I feel that IB have just ripped the guts out of what was their only real asset, without VB.org most would never have purchased forum software from them, it was the support and development of this community that swayed that decision and kept us waving the VB flag.

I've only been here for around 10 years and have gone from not even being able to put a simple flat HTML page together to coding for VB and PHP - couldn't have done it without strong influences from Lynne, Paul, Dismounted, TLS and many more (not all just staff but the wider community). It will be a sad thing to see the downturn of such a great place but you guys that have been aggrieved should get your heads together and build that dream forum with all the wants and wishes you feel that other places and here could do with.

Obvioulsy we need you guys, your passion, your dedication and your skills, please don't let it disappear in to the Ether(net).

Whatever you do my sincerest thanks for helping me, my forum and my skill base!

[the one]

I just want to thank you all for what you have done for this community.If it was not for this community i would not have the forum i have today.Sometimes it may seem like a thankless task that you do but i for one am forever grateful for what you have done.

You have made a difference to so many of our forums and i just hope and pray that the power that be will take that on-board and change their minds and let things be the way they are :(

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2017/07/3.png

[katie hunter]

As many of you will know, vbulletin.org has always prided itself on being an independant site, making its own choices, and chosing its own staff (all of who are unpaid volunteers).

Unfortunately, this all changed four weeks ago.

Having left employment with IB the week before, I made it clear I intended to keep up my role as Administrator here - a position I was appointed to way back in September 2006, almost five years before I ever worked at Internet Brands.

However, on 2nd June 2017 (while I was away on holiday) I was (on the instructions of IB Management) removed from my Administrator role, and demoted to Moderator (by IB staff, not by our other admins, Lynne and Princeton). The reason given to me was that I am "no longer employed by IB".

This is despite the fact that IB employment and staff positions here have never been linked.

The staff here are all angry, and for the last few weeks we have tried to get IB management to see this isnt the right thing to have done.
They have refused to change the decision, and so it is with much regret that myself, and most of the existing staff are in the process of stepping down.

Over the next few weeks, Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, Princeton and myself (Paul M) will all be stepping down.

Lynne has also announced she is resigning from vB Support.

My understanding is that TheLastSuperman intends to stay on for the moment (so really will be the Last (super) Man standing).

I believe our advisor Dave is also remaining for the moment.

I'm afraid I do not know what the future holds for vbulletin.org, or who from IB will be running it.
However, it has become clear it is no longer "our" site to run - as has previously been done for the last 15+ years.

While I've had few ups and down with Paul. He was one of the backbone of Vbulletin.org

I don't want to see any of these great staff stepping down. You still can support vb.org. I can understand trying to make a voice but I don't think this is the right approach for the community. It is sad to see Paul demoded but the decision for the others to step down is bad for vb.org and the community.

Really IB needs to rethink its direction in term of community support and vbulletin codes. I am still using vb 4.x and i love it over 5.x that i would never upgrade to.

[Lynne]

It's been a lot of fun. Bye everyone!

[Paul M]

Seems today is the day we all departed. Cherrio.

[blind-eddie]

We have two new staff members.... https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=staff

[BirdOPrey5]

It was a fun ride while it lasted.

[MarkFL]

It was a fun ride while it lasted.

Yes it was...this is a truly great community of folks, and I can't help but feel bad for the community losing nearly all the former staff at once.

I just hope everyone, or at least some of you, will understand that sometimes one must take a stand in the face of an injustice. Personally, I feel good about my decision to step down rather than be associated in an official capacity with practices I find appalling, but I feel no no less of those who decided to stay on. We each have a right to make our own decisions, and so I wish the best to those who are carrying forward here.

I am in the process of moving support for my line of products to MHB (http://mathhelpboards.com/) and I will also be adding support at The Admin Zone (TAZ) (https://theadminzone.com/), where I have recently joined the staff.

Good luck to everyone! :D

[In Omnibus]

We have two new staff members.... https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=staff

The fact that Wayne Luke has time for both vBulletin.com and vBulletin.org, or the fact that someone thinks he does, speaks volumes as to the status of vBulletin as a product.

[ChloeDione]

I don't want to see any of these great staff stepping down. You still can support vb.org. I can understand trying to make a voice but I don't think this is the right approach for the community. It is sad to see Paul demoded but the decision for the others to step down is bad for vb.org and the community.


I think that IB was kind of banking on this, too. They miscalculated, some.

Yes, other (now former) staff could still stand by IB, coders could still produce products and give support to other license holders, but instead everyone decided to side with Paul. Rightly so.

[Stingray27]

I am in the process of moving support for my line of products to MHB (http://mathhelpboards.com/) and I will also be adding support at The Admin Zone (TAZ) (https://theadminzone.com/), where I have recently joined the staff.
Mark, Paul, Lynne & BOP5 can all be found at TAZ, not sure about any of the others.

[chloe101]

Long story, short:


Thank you all (especially Lynne) for your support.

More than 4 years ago have wrote:
"vBulletin.org should not exists at least the way that is operating now (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=296704&highlight=teller)".
Don't say that I'm happy with what happen but somehow I was a fortune teller.

Apologies to you but as someone using your mods, I didn't mean to "like" this post. I understand where you're coming from but I hope you change your mind.

Without the excellent mods which I've been able to install with the help of many mod creators and admins/advisors here, I would not be using VBulletin at all and have been devastated reading this entire thread.

This is a very sad day :(

--------------- Added 1499919853 at 1499919853 ---------------

THE PART BELOW WAS MEANT TO BE A SEPARATE REPLY. I DON"T KNOW WHY IT MERGED

Thank you ALL for the incredible help you've given me over the years. Even those with whom I never directly interacted, like Lynne, have been incredibly helpful with their articles and replies to other people.

I'm extremely sad to learn this news. A few months ago, I had to decide between XenForo and VBulletin for my latest forum. I decided to stick with VBulletin but ONLY because of VBulletin.org. My head said to go with XenForo, my heart told me to stay here. So on my advice, our members raised the money to purchase my license for VB4. VB.org was the selling point for me and for them. Now I feel like I just let down every single person who donated, totally kicked in the gut because this was the one place I was counting on to keep things afloat technically. Apologies to the new people coming on board but you guys who stepped down, and your wealth of intimate knowledge with the ins/outs of this VB and its modifications, are irreplaceable.

I feel like a dagger was just stuck in my back and have been teary-eyed reading this thread.

My comments aren't meant to bash. Believe me I'm holding back.

So long and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your help over the years.

Devastated.

Devastated to see a product I loveD so much years ago keep cutting its own throat.

[paradoxG(r)eek]

Apologies to you but as someone using your mods, I didn't mean to "like" this post. I understand where you're coming from but I hope you change your mind.

Without the excellent mods which I've been able to install with the help of many mod creators and admins/advisors here, I would not be using VBulletin at all and have been devastated reading this entire thread.

This is a very sad day :(


All my mods are available at: https://theadminzone.com/resources/

I never meant to ignore vB users. I'll ignore vb.org

Chris

[BirdOPrey5]

--------------- Added 1499919853 at 1499919853 ---------------

THE PART BELOW WAS MEANT TO BE A SEPARATE REPLY. I DON"T KNOW WHY IT MERGED

:D That would be Paul's own "Double post prevention (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=203705)" modification that prevents the same user from making two posts back to back in the same thread too quickly. It was later added as an default feature in VB 4.2.x but off by default.

[chloe101]

:D That would be Paul's own "Double post prevention (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=203705)" modification that prevents the same user from making two posts back to back in the same thread too quickly. It was later added as an default feature in VB 4.2.x but off by default.

Ahhh.... Thank you for explaining that. It was a bit disconcerting lol. Thank you again for all the time you personally put in for me fixing a VB4 feature that wasn't working. You really went above and beyond, testing and retesting for days. I realize if you hadn't helped me, I'd be eternally stuck with a feature that wasn't working and wasn't going to get fixed either since all the focus is on VB5 now. Knowing that, it makes me especially sad for other VBulletin users who are going to lose out from getting your excellent help here going forward.

[cellarius]

Wow, this is just... wrong. It makes me so sad to see all those great people leave, if only for old times sake in my case, but at the same time I'm happy to see you taking a clear stance at what feels like an unfriendly takeover.

Paul was never a pushover, how they could expect him to just roll over and not at least comment on it is beyond me. The community will feel the enormous loss, no doubt about that. But they have IB to thank for that. You just can't expect people to happily help and support in their spare time after something like that.

I've stopped coding for vB quite some time ago, and wouldn't, even if I had the time. But now indeed it is time to remove my addons and articles from this site; I'll probably mirgrate them to The Admin Zone as soon as I find the time to do it properly.

[Mark.B]

Like Joe, I would urge people not to remove their add-ons. That hurts nobody except forum admins who either won't be able to get the add on, or won't be able to download a fresh copy of it.

[katie hunter]

Wow, this is just... wrong. It makes me so sad to see all those great people leave, if only for old times sake in my case, but at the same time I'm happy to see you taking a clear stance at what feels like an unfriendly takeover.

Paul was never a pushover, how they could expect him to just roll over and not at least comment on it is beyond me. The community will feel the enormous loss, no doubt about that. But they have IB to thank for that. You just can't expect people to happily help and support in their spare time after something like that.


I've stopped coding for vB quite some time ago, and wouldn't, even if I had the time. But now indeed it is time to remove my addons and articles from this site; I'll probably mirgrate them to The Admin Zone as soon as I find the time to do it properly.

Why are you posting these negative vibes ? We know you left to Xenforo long time ago. Your signature reads:

Please note that there will be no further updates to my addons, especially they will not be upgraded for vB5. I'm leaving vB, since IB choose to go the banana-way yet again.

IB like any other company makes mistakes and I ticket them in a hope to review their course of action relative vb 5.x development. I've had it seeing how Xenforo founders ceased a good opportunity and played the victims when vbulletin was going through many changes in management. They are not victims, they ceased a business opportunity when vb was going through changes.

They built their community on the shoulder of vbulletin. That fact is true.

[motorhaven]

IB like any other company makes mistakes and I ticket them in a hope to review their course of action relative vb 5.x development. I've had it seeing how Xenforo founders ceased a good opportunity and played the victims when vbulletin was going through many changes in management. They are not victims, they ceased a business opportunity when vb was going through changes.

Most companies do make mistakes, but my own experience dealing with them in business, and talking to both current and former employees I know, they make a huge number of colossal screw-ups when it comes to how people are treated, never learn from it, and it's become worse not better over time.

Asking people to keep their mods here is very one sided benefitting IB and not the mod creators. Par for the course.

[cellarius]

Why are you posting these negative vibes ?
I still own a vB license. My forum is running vB. I have quite a record of coding addons for vB. All of them offered here for free. I have been part of the alpha test team of vB4. And I've been supporting people here on and off during the last years, even though I've not been as active as in earlier times. So, yes, if you don't mind, I'll post whatever I like, whether you like it or not.

Of course, if you feel like having a party and looking for good vibes, that's absolutely your prerogative. Just don't try to shut others up who do not feel the same.

We know you left to Xenforo long time ago. Your signature reads:
I know what my signature reads. You don't need to quote it to me. Actually, you're being rude. But again, that's your prerogative.


IB like any other company makes mistakes
Some more than others. And, of course, customers get to call them out on those mistakes. Just like with any other company, really.

and I ticket them in a hope to review their course of action relative vb 5.x development.
Good luck with that.


Your off topic rant on xF really had me on the floor laughing, by the way. I just wonder whatever that has to do with the topic of this thread, and how it is connected what IB does in 2017? So, IB management propably is still traumatized by being victimized by XF five years ago? Where can I donate to offer my support?

[Stingray27]

Like Joe, I would urge people not to remove their add-ons. That hurts nobody except forum admins who either won't be able to get the add on, or won't be able to download a fresh copy of it.

Only if they are not available elsewhere. Simply moving them harms no one.

[paradoxG(r)eek]

That hurts nobody except forum admins....

Does anyone cares if IB hurt (long time now) coders and designers? Why always to talk for the company and forum admins only?. The link in the chain in sites like vb.org are coders and designers who supported this community for years.

If you can't help them, at least don't blame them and don't talk in a way like it's their mistake the current status of vb.org.

As for Forum Admins, be sure that they can find all the mods in other sites.

Chris

[TheLastSuperman]

Hey everyone, since the change has already taken place, please lets limit the discussion of how this was a bad call, anything negative and move on as I'd like to keep this thread open, turn it from a negative into a positive in some form or other if possible! From here on out please utilize this thread to give thanks and kind words to the years of volunteer support provided by everyone.

I can tell you all this much, if not for this single site and everyone who stepped down, I wouldn't know half of what I do now, not even close - Thanks Lynne, Paul, BirdOPrey5, Dismounted, Princeton, MarkFL!

[BirdOPrey5]

Hey everyone, since the change has already taken place, please lets limit the discussion of how this was a bad call, anything negative and move on as I'd like to keep this thread open, turn it from a negative into a positive in some form or other if possible! From here on out please utilize this thread to give thanks and kind words to the years of volunteer support provided by everyone.

I can tell you all this much, if not for this single site and everyone who stepped down, I wouldn't know half of what I do now, not even close - Thanks Lynne, Paul, BirdOPrey5, Dismounted, Princeton, MarkFL!

Motion to change your name to TheLastModerator.

[TheLastSuperman]

Motion to change your name to TheLastModerator.

If I didn't love Superman, perhaps!

[the Sandman]

OMG it's been ages since I logged in and posted over here. :eek:

I'd like to add my name to the list of people thanking Paul M, Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Dismounted, and Princeton for their wonderful service over the years. It's inconceivable to me how IB could let this happen. The loss to the community is nothing short of catastrophic. :(

It's so very sad that the corporations that provide forum software just don't seem to understand the notion of community anymore. Are they greedy? Stupid? Evil? I really don't know - they are people doing a job and I assume they are doing it the way they think (or are told) they're supposed to. But they just don't understand the nature of communities the way they used to back in the day, and the way they run their own forums is just the most visible sign.

And I don't just mean IB - none of them are the same as they used to be anymore. Don't they get it? It ain't just code! It's the people who use the code too!

At any rate, I'm glad I don't have to go away frowning, because most if not all of the names I listed aren't gone from the internet - they're just gone from here. They can be found elsewhere including on my little patch of the net. So I can end this post with a smile. :)

[paradoxG(r)eek]

Removed by Staff

What I always liked to you is how well you're using the English language. Yesterday, when I post something here, I wished so much to have your knowledge in English. I wanted so much to epxress my feeling, but didn't succeeded it. So I end up with a simple message :(

[TheLastSuperman]

I will not be closing this thread, the way I see it is, it should stay open for everyone to be able to give thanks at this point in time, if I must delete every other post then so be it but lets not go that route. I've deleted the posts mentioning Xenforo since they took place after my post from yesterday asking for this thread to remain open for praise if anything! Please use the rest of this thread to thank those who stepped down, there should be no further discussion of the why's and why not's, that time has passed and if you're running fashionably late then just accept it, give praise and lets move on, thanks for you understanding in this matter.

To those who's post were deleted, like Sparta... we Salute you! Nothing was terribly bad just off topic as you've now surmised :cool:.

[rbc]

damn bad news. As cellarius said years ago:
I'm leaving vB, since IB choose to go the banana-way (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=2176645&postcount=147) yet again.

Best wishes to the team and many many thanks to all.

Would not be able to set up your own vb support site?
Lynne, BirdOPrey5, MarkFL, Princeton and Paul ...... :cool:

[the Sandman]

You might want to update this page: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=about

[steviewonder44]

These are the end of days for bulletin as I see it just switched from it today, thank you all
for 10 years of great mods addons and template edits for vb4, it was a blast..

Bye

[TheLastSuperman]

You might want to update this page: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=about

Its already been logged to Jira but as you're guessing as I'm typing Paul was over that so it will have to wait until someone else is re-assigned to the vb.org Jira.

[the Sandman]

Its already been logged to Jira but as you're guessing as I'm typing Paul was over that so it will have to wait until someone else is re-assigned to the vb.org Jira.
And here I was thinking a site administrator could just go into the AdminCP and edit the proper page. How silly of me...

:rolleyes:

[BirdOPrey5]

Its already been logged to Jira but as you're guessing as I'm typing Paul was over that so it will have to wait until someone else is re-assigned to the vb.org Jira.

The logged JIRA was marked resolved. I petitioned for it to be reopened.

[cellarius]

Its already been logged to Jira but as you're guessing as I'm typing Paul was over that so it will have to wait until someone else is re-assigned to the vb.org Jira.

And here I was thinking a site administrator could just go into the AdminCP and edit the proper page. How silly of me...

:rolleyes:

The logged JIRA was marked resolved. I petitioned for it to be reopened.

Sooo, there's not only an over-bureaucratic procedure to be followed - it does not even work :p

[OldSchoolDSL]

I have had no reason to log into here for quite awhile now having successfully converted all my remaining sites away from vBulletin and to either WoltLab Burning Board or Invision Power Board. However, I do still remember using vBulletin back in the day and how the staff here usually did a wonderful job at keeping things usually civil.

Thank you all for the good that you did and I'm sorry your hard work and tireless, if not thankless effort, has continued to be underappreciated by your Internet Brand overlords. -- It was not unnoticed by those of us here who did use this community and its resources. Thank you for your time and service to the cause!

Internet Brands Inc, who owns vBulletin, really should not have entered into the business of forum software. Their continued effort of disrespecting and ignoring their customer base, along with their core developers and staff has been a continuing trend, as well as proof of that fact. I suspect one day the only sites using vBulletin with be Internet Brand's own sites.

With this all said, I leave you with the same song they played as The Titanic sank, "Nearer My God To Thee"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1mQT1u_45I

Cheers, everyone!

[katie hunter]

Well i ticket IB on the 13th but i haven't heard back from them yet, they are usually good with responding back though.

[TheLastSuperman]

Well i ticket IB on the 13th but i haven't heard back from them yet, they are usually good with responding back though.

A ticket regarding this situation? If so I would not expect a reply back, the decision has already been made and since all staff on the list have been demoted as of the 12th, nothing else can be done at this point in time. I just wanted you to know that, so if the ticket does go unanswered you would understand why respectively i.e. its like the rule on here, do not open a new thread to question staff decisions, same sort of situation here per say :cool:.

[TheLastSuperman]

Despite my previous comment, I've decided to close this thread.

Please pay homage/tribute to those that have left in the new thread (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=325405).