GAVE UP

[Terrablade]

Ok I gave up. Tired of fighting with vb 4.2.2. Dont even know why i left 3.8.7 .. Question for you guys. If i delete everything from ftp and upload the whole backup i got from 3.8.7 will it be ok? Or is there a method i can go back to how I was with this backup?

[Disco_Dave]

what problems are you having?

If you have a solid back up of your 3.8.7 database, and all the files that went with it? You can simply go with what you had..

[Terrablade]

Nothing was working right and I got desperate.. I have a solid backup, just finished getting it from cpanel had it there. What should I do?

--------------- Added 1403012678 at 1403012678 ---------------

Should I just override all 4.2.2 and upload the 3.8.7 install script and do as such?

[Disco_Dave]

Did you disable all of your mods? And have they been updated for vb4.2

You could re-write all your files and folders and connect to your old database, that would be easily done.

[Terrablade]

i had updated all the ones to 4.2.2.. But I dont really know how to go about what you said :/

[mokujin]

You should disable all your mods you have installed in vbulletin 3.8.7. by adding this
define('DISABLE_HOOKS', true); to your config.php file.

[Terrablade]

the one instaled atm is 4.2.2 thats the one I want to get rid off. I have the 3.8.7 backup here with mysql and all, just dont know how to do it :/

[mokujin]

Just restore your backup .

[Terrablade]

thats exactly where Im still standing. Ive never done such thing. Dont even know whay finger to move first

[RichieBoy67]

I was helping you mate but was first focusing on the themes. I could have had this all sorted for you today.

Do you have the complete back up? Files, etc for the old site?

[Disco_Dave]

I was helping you mate but was first focusing on the themes. I could have had this all sorted for you today.

Do you have the complete back up? Files, etc for the old site?


I've also been trying to help via pm's

I've also looked at his cpanel. He needs to upload his old database, and re-upload all the 3.8.7 files. But he can't understand how to do it......

[RichieBoy67]

My advice would be to stick it out with 4.2.. First remove all the old mods for 3.8 that will no longer work with 4.2... Then install the ones you want for 4.2...

Restoring a back up may not be too easy for someone who does not know how to do it though if you have cpanel it is pretty easy.

Take all your 4.2 files and put then in a directory for safe keeping--Call it 4-2 back up or something.. Then you have a clean root. Upload your 3.8 files in the same structure.

Then I would just create a new database and import the back up you have there. Use ssh or even cpanel. Change your includes/config to match and you are set..

This way if you have an issue you can go back to 4.2 very easily and you do not risk losing any data.

Right now the issues you are having are mostly cosmetic and superficial and pretty easily fixed though. It is just that you have so many, many plug ins installed for 3.8. There are only a couple installed that will even work with 4.2.. The others will cause issues.

Last night though you had asked for help with your themes so that was what I was focusing on. I did not even look into your plug ins except to look for the plug in that was messing up the template.

At any rate, follow the above instructions and you should be able to restore your 3.8 site without any drama.

[Max Taxable]

Hate seeing this but it's not like it's unusual - most people who "upgrade" from v3.8.7 never really think too much about why, and never ask themselves THE key question. What is the compelling reason. (http://ozzmodz.com/showthread.php/1367-The-quot-need-to-upgrade-quot-myth-busted)

If they asked that, they would quickly realize there isn't one and save themselves alot of misery.

Apply the ages old and proven adage: If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[RichieBoy67]

Hate seeing this but it's not like it's unusual - most people who "upgrade" from v3.8.7 never really think too much about why, and never ask themselves THE key question. What is the compelling reason. (http://ozzmodz.com/showthread.php/1367-The-quot-need-to-upgrade-quot-myth-busted)

If they asked that, they would quickly realize there isn't one and save themselves alot of misery.

Apply the ages old and proven adage: If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hey Max, I know you are like an anti 4.2er..lol but the fact is this is not really an issue with 4.2 itself. The issue is that there many, many mods that were made for 3.8 and were not removed before upgrading. Ofcourse these mods are not going to work and are going to cause problems with the site itself and with newer mods.

The compelling reason to upgrade is all the added new features that 4.2 has over 3.8 not to mention the latest 4.2.2 will work well with php5.4. Not to bash 3.8 but it is like comparing an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One. :D

[K4GAP]

Ok I gave up. Tired of fighting with vb 4.2.2. Dont even know why i left 3.8.7 .. Question for you guys. If i delete everything from ftp and upload the whole backup i got from 3.8.7 will it be ok? Or is there a method i can go back to how I was with this backup?

Exactly what is it you are having trouble with on 4.2.2 ?

I think maybe your problem is you have not allowed enough time to pass so that you can become familiar with the changes.

I run 4.2.2 and love it! I didn't always love it. But once I became familiar with it there's no way I would revert to any of the 3.X

[Max Taxable]

The compelling reason to upgrade is all the added new features that 4.2 has over 3.8 not to mention the latest 4.2.2 will work well with php5.4. Not to bash 3.8 but it is like comparing an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One. :DYou should read my article linked, in reality there are no compelling reasons to leave v3.8.7(8). Compelling being the key word. Especially if the 3.8.7(8) is serving the community well. Look at the top ten sites using vBulletin, only one of those is a v4. And the owners of that site rue the day they ever "upgraded."

I'm not anti v4. I don't tell people not to "upgrade" I simply point out there's no compelling reason for it, and they'll regret it as most do. I just try to help people go into such a step with open eyes, to take a moment to THINK about it first instead of just jumping in for no apparent reason, as the OP said.

Incompatibility with some v3 mods isn't the only issue, in fact it's just a minor one. v4 is bloated, runs slower and is a wet paper sack for security. It's "great new features" are mostly, v3 modifications that were made default in v4.

3.8.8 works just fine with PHP 5.4, and 3.8.7 is brought into compliance with it, without a great deal of work involved.

"Upgrade" if one must, but don't say I didn't try to warn you.

[Disco_Stu]

They should not be calling newer versions of vBulletin "upgrades". In many cases you have to uninstall and then reinstall so much that it's like buying an entirely new product and starting at the beginning all over again.

I have 4.2 and I like it but that's because that's the version I started out with. I refuse to "upgrade" to 5.x because I , like many other site ops, have installed many mods from this site and most of these mods will not work with 5.x so it's like dismantling my site and starting over. What advantages could 5.x possibly give me to want me to toss all the time and effort I've gone thru just to "upgrade" to a newer version?

[Terrablade]

You have all been a good help. Im back at 3.8 thanks to the help of you folks. I was moved more because of the Mods that were not available for vb 3.8. But I learn the hard way and did so, I prefer asking or paying a few bucks for a custom mod to fit vb 3.8 than going through this headache again. Its not gonna happen again I can assure you all.

[Max Taxable]

They should not be calling newer versions of vBulletin "upgrades". In many cases you have to uninstall and then reinstall so much that it's like buying an entirely new product and starting at the beginning all over again.

I have 4.2 and I like it but that's because that's the version I started out with. I refuse to "upgrade" to 5.x because I , like many other site ops, have installed many mods from this site and most of these mods will not work with 5.x so it's like dismantling my site and starting over. What advantages could 5.x possibly give me to want me to toss all the time and effort I've gone thru just to "upgrade" to a newer version?Plus much more than the difference between v3 and v4, v5 is a complete departure from anything in any way related to vBulletin. Nothing from the past is compatible with it. And users, hate it.

[RichieBoy67]

Users hate it? Cmon Max.. really?

it is a transition for users when switching to a new version but they get used to it and on sites I have upgraded, many over the years they end up liking it much more.

As for V5 I will not speak on that because I am not familiar with it..

And 4.2 upgrades from 3.8 are difficult in terms of certain plug ins and themes but in the end it is way better. There are so many more features and options and end user options. Many things you probably have mods for in 3.8 are built right into 4.2..

when upgrading though you have to go through your mods and see what will carryover.

Anyhow, I was mainly replying to the comment that users hate it. I think most users find it an improvement once they get over the initial changes. bAgain, I am talking about 4.2..Not 5.

[Max Taxable]

Users hate it? Cmon Max.. really?.Yes. You'll note upon re-reading I was talking about v5 there, not v4. Users DO hate v5, they leave the site in droves every time someone upgrades to it. Several threads about that both here and on vB dot com.

[RichieBoy67]

Yes. You'll note upon re-reading I was talking about v5 there, not v4. Users DO hate v5, they leave the site in droves every time someone upgrades to it. Several threads about that both here and on vB dot com.

My apologies brother. I am sick with the flu this week and must not have read that well enough.

I agree with you on that about v5 at least from what I hear from people.

[K4GAP]

Excuse this going slightly OT but, this thread has got me to wondering, exactly what is it about 4.2.2 that so many seem to dislike? Be specific please. I'm really trying to figure this out because it has not been my experience at all. Am I missing something?

I really want to know. And I hope nobody thinks I'm being ... *can't think of the word .... an arse maybe?

[Max Taxable]

Excuse this going slightly OT but, this thread has got me to wondering, exactly what is it about 4.2.2 that so many seem to dislike? Be specific please. I'm really trying to figure this out because it has not been my experience at all. Am I missing something?

I really want to know. And I hope nobody thinks I'm being ... *can't think of the word .... an arse maybe?A simple comparison of the bloated v4 database alone compared to the svelte and efficient one of v3 leaves few questions. Additionally, look at the vast difference between the file sizes of the packages after you download them from the members area and unzip them. v4 is almost twice the size of v3, and for no apparent reason.

Additionally and as consequence, v4 unmodified and out of the box loads slower than v3 unmodified and out of the box. It's verified and proven, and even admitted to by IB and its employees. v3 out of the box and unmodified loads about 130kb on a browser, v4 unmodified and out of the box loads nearly 400kb on browsers.

It is fat, clunky, bulky and slow. Then when you start modifying it, it only gets worse.

I can understand someone who never had a v3 not seeing the difference. Don't know if you fit in that group, but like was said by someone else earlier those who started out with v4 have no frame of reference to past version, and can be blissful with v4 as a result.

[Disco_Dave]

Max, I would disagree... We started with vb3 back in 2008 (still have it all wrapped up. (vb3.8.7) ) as vB moved forward so did we. The only thing we found harder was editing our skin to be exactly like it was on vB3. I feel the vB4 site runs better, looks slicker and feels slicker than vB3.

I wouldn't know much about the exact load times, but I'm sure it's only milliseconds?

[Max Taxable]

Max, I would disagree... We started with vb3 back in 2008 (still have it all wrapped up. (vb3.8.7) ) as vB moved forward so did we. The only thing we found harder was editing our skin to be exactly like it was on vB3. I feel the vB4 site runs better, looks slicker and feels slicker than vB3.

I wouldn't know much about the exact load times, but I'm sure it's only milliseconds?You "feel" that way, but feelings aren't facts.

It is a FACT that v4 is fatter and slower.

Your site tests pretty well for a v4 (http://www.webpagetest.org/result/140618_VQ_TN4/) but clearly that's because you did some good optimization work on it. I seem to remember helping you with that.

[Disco_Dave]

You did, none the less I still disagree. vB4 Looks and feel's better than vb3. I spouse you could say it's just my opinion, just like yours :)

[Max Taxable]

You did, none the less I still disagree. vB4 Looks and feel's better than vb3. I spouse you could say it's just my opinion, just like yours :)I am not coming from opinion, I am coming from proven and tested facts. Out of the box v4 is fatter and slower than v3 out of the box. It's just a fact.

Your site is always going to seem fast to you due to caching. That's just about any site by the way. That is why we use the WPT browsers to test them, to get that unvarnished objective data. How we "feel" is subjective.

You had to do a TON of work to get your v4 performing like it is.

[cellarius]

I'm really not a vB4 fan. Never was. But how you get to the opinion the vB4 database was bloated and inefficient, when in fact it is practically identical to the vB3 database (if you subtract vB4 CMS and Blog which were not present in vB3), really beats me. What really was/is catastrophic is the CMS. The forum as a standalone product are not really that different.

[Paul M]

He just hates vB4 and feels the need to tell everyone.

As you say, the reality is that aside from the added CMS and blog, its not really much different to vB3. It does have a few extra features, especially in 4.2.x

[AusPhotography]

vB3 -> vB4 is quite easy.
Rule 1 - full backup
Rule 2 - disable all add-ons and ONLY put the the vB4 versions into your new site

We did is a couple of years ago, we setup a test site and played around until it worked how we wanted - then did it live

[Max Taxable]

He just hates vB4 and feels the need to tell everyone.Nonsense. Says the bloke who won't upgrade this site to v4 either.

All I do is tell facts you don't happen to like. I don't hate v4, I simply refuse to just mindlessly hype it.

[Max Taxable]

I'm really not a vB4 fan. Never was. But how you get to the opinion the vB4 database was bloated and inefficient, when in fact it is practically identical to the vB3 database (if you subtract vB4 CMS and Blog which were not present in vB3), really beats me. What really was/is catastrophic is the CMS. The forum as a standalone product are not really that different.It loads slower out of the box, does have a bloated database and is also full of security holes.

It just is what it is.

[Paul M]

Nonsense. Says the bloke who won't upgrade this site to v4 either.
Which has zero to do with my opinion of vB4, and everything to do with the huge amount of work it would take.
Something Im sure you know full well, so dont wast everyones time with cheap shots about specific forums.


All I do is tell facts you don't happen to like. I don't hate v4, I simply refuse to just mindlessly hype it.
No, you mostly post opinions, not facts.
v4 is bloated, runs slower and is a wet paper sack for security. It's "great new features" are mostly, v3 modifications that were made default in v4.

This is almost all your opinion, nothing more. The only bit you could generally argue as a fact is that it will mostly run slightly slower, although unless you have a big forum general network speed variations are more likely to be noticeable.

It loads slower out of the box, does have a bloated database and is also full of security holes.

It just is what it is.
Utter tripe.
At least you proved my point, you cannot post sensible information.

[Max Taxable]

Utter tripe.
At least you proved my point, you cannot post sensible information.Thanks for the belly laugh. v4 merely represents the start of the fall down the slope, of vBulletin who with version 5 made sure it completely killed a once robust and industry leading platform.

Blinders you wear, pretending this isn't true and the problems with v4 which are multitude, don't exist. You represent this failed company, Internet Brands, very well. *slaps knee*

[Max Taxable]

Which has zero to do with my opinion of vB4, and everything to do with the huge amount of work it would take.
Something Im sure you know full well, so dont wast everyones time with cheap shots about specific forums.~Ahem~vB3 -> vB4 is quite easy.
Rule 1 - full backup
Rule 2 - disable all add-ons and ONLY put the the vB4 versions into your new site

We did is a couple of years ago, we setup a test site and played around until it worked how we wanted - then did it live

[Disco_Stu]

vBulletin is what you make it. If you don't like something about it then change it. I've changed so many templates and php files that I'm not sure if the majority of the code is VB or mine.

I added a lot of jquery, flash, javascript, php, etc. and my site has a lot of images that are not optimized in any way. Yeah I'm sure my site loads slowly but I provide my users with an MP3 player packed with over 300 hits songs (all legal - I pay the licensing fees) for free as an incentive for them to visit my site. I don't think they mind if the initial page takes an extra second or 2 to load.

I consider my site a proof of concept project that I enjoy working on from time to time. I'm not sure what all these issues with 4.2 are that you keep mentioning. It works fine for me. That's why I'll never upgrade.

If you want to look at my site (and say it sucks) feel free. You will need to register to use the MP3 player or post in the forum. By the way, the forum will not have many posts in it because it is not the main focus of my site. I found that vBulletin can be used to create more than just forum sites.

www.pjksoftware.com


fyi...you will need to use Firefox or Chrome. The are incompatibilities with some of my code with IE which I am working on

[RichieBoy67]

At some point Vb5 will most likely be worked out as well but the latest Vb4.2.2 is very solid and secure.

Sure vulnerabilities are found every so often but usually patched very quickly just as vulnerabilities are found and patched in pretty much every software and script.

In regards to the op giving up... Sure major upgrades are difficult for someone who has not done it or does not do this type of thing all the time. I can understand that but the issue here was not the version at all.

--------------- Added 1403203005 at 1403203005 ---------------

vBulletin is what you make it. If you don't like something about it then change it. I've changed so many templates and php files that I'm not sure if the majority of the code is VB or mine.

I added a lot of jquery, flash, javascript, php, etc. and my site has a lot of images that are not optimized in any way. Yeah I'm sure my site loads slowly but I provide my users with an MP3 player packed with over 300 hits songs (all legal - I pay the licensing fees) for free as an incentive for them to visit my site. I don't think they mind if the initial page takes an extra second or 2 to load.

I consider my site a proof of concept project that I enjoy working on from time to time. I'm not sure what all these issues with 4.2 are that you keep mentioning. It works fine for me. That's why I'll never upgrade.

If you want to look at my site (and say it sucks) feel free. You will need to register to use the MP3 player or post in the forum. By the way, the forum will not have many posts in it because it is not the main focus of my site. I found that vBulletin can be used to create more than just forum sites.

www.pjksoftware.com (http://www.pjksoftware.com)


fyi...you will need to use Firefox or Chrome. The are incompatibilities with some of my code with IE which I am working on


Nice site but yes, it does load very, very slowly which will cause a large seo impact. You could probably shave some load time off just by optimizing your images and caching.

Nice looking site though.

[Disco_Stu]

Thanks but I'm not concerned with SEO because most of my visitors are by word of mouth from past clients and peers. I've done a lot of work for many firms (click on the experience tab and you will see a few) so I get my share of visitors without relying too much on SEO

[K4GAP]

He just hates vB4 and feels the need to tell everyone.

As you say, the reality is that aside from the added CMS and blog, its not really much different to vB3. It does have a few extra features, especially in 4.2.x

When I read Max's comment about the bloated db I was concerned but, it makes sense that if someone takes into the consideration the cms and blog of 4.2's suite, it only makes sense that of course the db would be larger. Bloated? ummmm, some people may describe it that way I guess.

A whole lot of negative about a product should be backed up and, fully explained. If I didn't know better and I just went with "bloated", I would form a bad opinion. It it were explained why the product were "fatter" and an explanation as to why it is fatter i.e. more features and additional stuff, then I could form a better more educated opinion of the product.

No wonder a lot of users are jumping ship, they hear such things as it's pantry is bloated!

[Disco_Stu]

Hey K4GAP, check out some of my QSL cards on my site

[K4GAP]

Hey K4GAP, check out some of my QSL cards on my site

Link?

[Disco_Stu]

Link?

www.pjksoftware.com

[rhody401]

IMO 4.2.x is a fine and stable product. (I run a few large ones and they are rock solid reliable) 5.x isn't ready for prime time yet, IMO, and is very slow. and 3.x has a VERY dated look, and is slowly being ignored by developers since it is being phased out/retired. Developers are probably focusing on 4.x, 5.x and other competing products.

There was no reason to give up, imo, nor is there a flaw/cause for blame in 4.x the product. (other than it being virtually ignored in favor of 5.x development) It sounds more like you had a problem with some very old custom mods in the 3.x environment, which needed to be replaced/updated in the newer 4.x environment. If so, that's a legitimate problem - but this thread was probably not deserved. (it implies that 4.x is broken somehow)

As far as I recall, all of the recent exploits were found in all supported versions of the product. (3 4 5)

[Max Taxable]

vBulletin is what you make it. If you don't like something about it then change it. I've changed so many templates and php files that I'm not sure if the majority of the code is VB or mine.

I added a lot of jquery, flash, javascript, php, etc. and my site has a lot of images that are not optimized in any way. Yeah I'm sure my site loads slowly but I provide my users with an MP3 player packed with over 300 hits songs (all legal - I pay the licensing fees) for free as an incentive for them to visit my site. I don't think they mind if the initial page takes an extra second or 2 to load.

I consider my site a proof of concept project that I enjoy working on from time to time. I'm not sure what all these issues with 4.2 are that you keep mentioning. It works fine for me. That's why I'll never upgrade.

If you want to look at my site (and say it sucks) feel free. You will need to register to use the MP3 player or post in the forum. By the way, the forum will not have many posts in it because it is not the main focus of my site. I found that vBulletin can be used to create more than just forum sites.

www.pjksoftware.com


fyi...you will need to use Firefox or Chrome. The are incompatibilities with some of my code with IE which I am working on Very good points and well presented.

[K4GAP]

www.pjksoftware.com (http://www.pjksoftware.com)

Got it, nice.

[cellarius]

does have a bloated database [...]

It just is what it is.
You see - you already claimed that. I asked you to elaborate. Just repeating the claim and adding a non-statement like "it is what it is" makes me think you have no point to make at all there.

Given the database of vB3 and vB4 is pretty much identical apart from CMS and blog tables - no surprise there, really.

[Disco_Dave]

Starting to look like Facts are fiction. I still think vB4 Feels great :D

[Disco_Stu]

I guess the real issue is that some folks view vBulletin as an end product and get upset when it doesn't do exactly what they want it to do while others view vBulletin as a starting point and a good development tool.

It's like buying a new car and getting mad because the radio is not programmed for your favorite stations while others will read the manual and learn how to program it for themselves.

I purchased the full package including CMS and branding free option. I really didn't care for CMS so I only use it as a tool to create the CMS widget (the one on the left on my site - the right is a forum block widget). I then added some code for the fade out and collapse functions and a plugin to allow the CMS widget to be available on almost all the pages in my site. Now I have dual multifunctional collapsible widgets on most pages which is something vBulletin does not come with.

The point I'm trying to make is if you can code then change the package to do whatever you want it to do. If you can't code then accept it as it is or pay someone to change it. Complaining about it all day long will change nothing except your standing in these forums.

[Max Taxable]

You see - you already claimed that. I asked you to elaborate. Just repeating the claim and adding a non-statement like "it is what it is" makes me think you have no point to make at all there.

Given the database of vB3 and vB4 is pretty much identical apart from CMS and blog tables - no surprise there, really.Except, they're not pretty much identical. v4 has many more tables and a much larger size of db, mainly due to all the "new" features in it that are actually ports of Mods and plugins that were made for v3. And it's clunky.

[Max Taxable]

There's too many "Disco" people in here! Disco is dead, didn't you know?:D

[Max Taxable]

Starting to look like Facts are fiction. I still think vB4 Feels great :DAnd you seem to dismiss all the hard work you had to do to make your v4 perform almost as well as a v3 does. And seem to have forgotten what a terrible performer it was. The facts are the facts. v4 is bloated - vast difference between the file sizes of the packages after you download them from the members area and unzip them. v4 is almost twice the size of v3, and for no apparent reason. It's just reality.

[kh99]

OK, I think we've gone around in circles enough. To everyone who's posted, if you can't post without simply repeating what you've already said, then please don't post again. We could go back and forth forever with "yes it is, not it isn't", but it's not constructive. Getting the last word doesn't make you right.

[cellarius]

Except, they're not pretty much identical. v4 has many more tables and a much larger size of db, mainly due to all the "new" features in it that are actually ports of Mods and plugins that were made for v3. And it's clunky.

Please show me where the forum itself has "many more tables". As I said: If we are fair, we're looking at forum only. There was no CMS in vB3, blog was an addon. We can count that in, but we will see that there has not been much change there, either. You would also have to show how a larger number of tables in a database per se is bad for performance, and how whatever difference there is between the empty database sizes affects performance.

You're still refusing to offer even the slightest hint of an argument. Or was that nonsense about the addons meant to be an argument? Then my question is: How, in your opinion, would an empty database table of such a feature hurt performance, if you don't use that functionality? Mind you, if you do use it, you'd have the same table in vB3.

[K4GAP]

Trying to get the "last word" is soooo childish ..... WORD :D

[RichieBoy67]

Trying to get the "last word" is soooo childish ..... WORD :D

My money is on the mod who closes this thread will get the last word. :)

[Paul M]

My money is on the mod who closes this thread will get the last word. :)
You win.