Why are you guys still using vb 3.6.12

[ZUCCO]

I dont know, why dont you upgrade to vb 4 or 5? Just a question. Is this the most stable version?

[Max Taxable]

They've had this asked and answered about a jazillion times. The basic answer is, there is no compelling reason to "upgrade" (good advice right there) and this board is so heavily customized it wouldn't be worth the hassle to port all of its modifications to a v4 or 5.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[ozzy47]

Discussed many many times over, try searching.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showt...hlight=upgrade (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=234940&highlight=upgrade)
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showt...hlight=upgrade (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=219530&highlight=upgrade)
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showt...hlight=upgrade (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=209885&highlight=upgrade)
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showt...hlight=upgrade (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=204881&highlight=upgrade)
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showt...hlight=upgrade (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=193741&highlight=upgrade)

[ZUCCO]

I see, I didnt take the time to search.

[ForceHSS]

I see, I didnt take the time to search.

No one ever does

[ozzy47]

Nor do they click the likes after you have helped them. :(

[ForceHSS]

Nor do they click the likes after you have helped them. :(
agree

[Lynne]

This is right at the top of the forum:

vBulletin.org FAQ - Read First! (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=234458) See Q8. :)

[Paul M]

They've had this asked and answered about a jazillion times.
and its now a jazillion and one. :cool:

[Amaury]

And security is non-issue, too, since Lynne told me in a PM once that Paul has custom security stuff or something installed.

[JacquiiDesigns]

and its now a jazillion and one. :cool:
LOL!

Okay - just being a bit silly here. But I've always found this "no compelling reason to upgrade" company line a bit ridiculous.

It's like a Cadillac franchise owner -- who has been cruising around town in their 1979 De'Ville -- saying in November 2013 - "no compelling reason for you to buy the new 2014 Escalade." Meanwhile at homebase - you're getting slammed with 25% off The World's Dopest 2014 Ride Black Friday coupons.

So we potential customers are scratching our heads, thinking ==> Okay... If Cadillac is cool with their '79 De'Ville - I should be good in my '82 Se'Ville then right? No need for the newest Escalade.. Perhaps Cadillac should get out of the car business?!

IDK - horrible metaphor throughout LOL -- But it just seems silly to me. I want to scream - Come on IB - Pimp the dot_org out with your flagship, world's leading community software.

Just sayin... https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2013/12/5.gif

J.

[TheLastSuperman]

IDK - horrible metaphor throughout LOL -- But it just seems silly to me. I want to scream - Come on IB - Pimp the dot_org out with your flagship, world's leading community software.

Just sayin... https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2013/12/5.gif

J.

I sincerely hope you meant vB4 :cool: not vB5 :erm:

:rolleyes:

[JacquiiDesigns]

I sincerely hope you meant vB4 :cool: not vB5 :erm:

:rolleyes:

Either/Or would be sweet for a change.
For sake of metaphor... It smells like there's oil burning. Though the motor is not knocking (or has been security patched), the Gremlin-like purple/blue/red/white/puke colors needs a new paint job. Okay - I digress. But yeah - Either/Or would be interesting to see, preferably at least 4.2 anyway :P

[Digital Jedi]

LOL!

Okay - just being a bit silly here. But I've always found this "no compelling reason to upgrade" company line a bit ridiculous.

It's like a Cadillac franchise owner -- who has been cruising around town in their 1979 De'Ville -- saying in November 2013 - "no compelling reason for you to buy the new 2014 Escalade." Meanwhile at homebase - you're getting slammed with 25% off The World's Dopest 2014 Ride Black Friday coupons.

So we potential customers are scratching our heads, thinking ==> Okay... If Cadillac is cool with their '79 De'Ville - I should be good in my '82 Se'Ville then right? No need for the newest Escalade.. Perhaps Cadillac should get out of the car business?!

IDK - horrible metaphor throughout LOL -- But it just seems silly to me. I want to scream - Come on IB - Pimp the dot_org out with your flagship, world's leading community software.

Just sayin... https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2013/12/5.gif

J.
Though, if you look back, it was only one person who initially used the expression, and it kind of got latched on to. It probably was never the best way to put it, but suffice it to say, I can only imagine that if the site has been heavily modified to the point where it's functionally as stable and secure as any other version of vB, and without knowing the level of custom code integration (I mean, we could be talking about whole pages rewritten just for vB.org), then it probably really isn't worth the effort to rewrite an entire website. Then sit and wait for the bugs to be worked out, because it would be silly to think that a resigned on that level would be bug free. Then have to deal with all the outrage when any little thing goes wrong on this site. All for the purpose of having a different version number in the footer, and some different graphic design.

If it would fundamentally improve our experience, then I'd be all for it, too. But we're not a hobby board with a pack of third-party mods installed. We're an official board with God-knows what level of code modification that needs to remain stable for as long as possible. I've seen that type of advanced modification done to a board before, and they were vB 2 boards. Maybe not modern, or pretty, but every bit secure and functional. Boards modified on a level that they fundamentally weren't the same script anymore.

[Max Taxable]

LOL!

Okay - just being a bit silly here. But I've always found this "no compelling reason to upgrade" company line a bit ridiculous.I'm pretty sure that's actually my line, and none of the admins here noticed I added it to their lines. :D

Anyhow, the automobile comparison really doesn't fly - seldom do auto companies totally screw up new models anywhere near as much as v4 and v5 are.

I have had exactly zero persons give me a compelling reason to "upgrade" from v3 to v4. Because there isn't one.

Just like there is no compelling reason to get the newest Cadillac if the one you have isn't giving you any trouble, suits your needs and your family (read: forum board members) like it.

Software doesn't wear out from use like a automobile can.

I see your point from a purely marketing perspective, however. The Cadillac dealer should always be driving the latest Cadillac - but other than for show, he has no compelling reason to do so.

vB dot com has the latest IB Yugo, vB dot org kept the Cadillac.

[Digital Jedi]

If we're really going to milk that metaphor for all it's worth, then it would probably be more accurate to say vB.org is still driving Knight Rider. Sure, Knight Industries Three Thousand was awesome, but would you really give up the original K.I.T.T. to drive him?

[Max Taxable]

If we're really going to milk that metaphor for all it's worth, then it would probably be more accurate to say vB.org is still driving Knight Rider. Sure, Knight Industries Three Thousand was awesome, but would you really give up the original K.I.T.T. to drive him?Can't "Like" that post so, +1. The metaphor really does fit.

Caveat: v4 and v5 aren't Knight Industries 3000, they are the Yugo.

[setishock]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

[DivisionByZero]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

But it IS broke.... in so many ways.

[Max Taxable]

But it IS broke.... in so many ways.But... It ain't.

[DivisionByZero]

I guess it isn't if you're one of those webmasters who has a cookie-cutter vbulletin website... one of those sites that you recognize as OOB software the second you hit the index page... or one of those who doesn't care about such petty things like... mobile devices and how they lord over desktop browsers today.

Newsflash: It's not 2006 anymore!

At this rate, vBulletin will be dead in less than five years anyway. Xenforo and its awesomeness is quickly gaining popularity by knowing how to properly develop software that isn't obsolete.

[Max Taxable]

I guess it isn't if you're one of those webmasters who has a cookie-cutter vbulletin website... one of those sites that you recognize as OOB software the second you hit the index page... or one of those who doesn't care about such petty things like... mobile devices and how they lord over desktop browsers today.

vBulletin will be dead in less than five years. Xenforo is quickly gaining popularity.This site is a working and information sharing area, it's not intended to be pretty.

Have you tried it with your mobile browser?

[DivisionByZero]

yes... iOS 7 and its horrible. Xenforo, on the other hand, looks beautiful on any device.

I'm assuming you only have a couple years of vB history, by your join date. Back in the day, things were on the right track when vB was still run by its founders: Jelsoft. Those were the good days.

Part of the allure of any OOB software is its customer base and support system. Thus, this site is supposed to represent vBulletin. It should operate itself accordingly.

[Max Taxable]

yes... iOS 7 and its horrible. Xenforo, on the other hand, looks beautiful on any device.

I'm assuming you only have a couple years of vB history, by your join date. Back in the day, things were on the right track when vB was still run by its founders: Jelsoft. Those were the good days.That is a very incorrect assumption. I am a vB license holder and webmaster going all the way back to 2003.

And yes the old vBulletin is gone and I have refused to ever use anything past version 3.8.8, and I never will. If ever I was going to put up a new board it very likely would be from xenforo. So as you can see your points are well received from me and considered valid.

But of course, all of this is academic to the discussion of vbulletin dot org's needs and preferences. Personally I would hate to see them "upgrade" to vB version 4 or 5.

Wouldn't you?

[Digital Jedi]

I think predictions of vB's demise are way premature. As I've said, I like xF, too. But I think it's going to be a few years before it's quite as feature rich as vB has been. Not to mention, it's a different animal, really. It offers something different, and will need to survive the anti-vB crowd that dominates it's support forums, before it grows into something more. And as we've already pointed out, what's practical isn't always what everybody thinks vB.org should do. It's not a flip of the switch, or a week worth of work thing. That's what they keep trying to tell us.

I do agree that vB.org needs a mobile skin, though. I thought about offering the one I've been developing for vB 3, but I doubt they'd be too keen on using anything third-party developed. For good reason. Not to mention, who knows if some of the core modifications the site uses even relies on templates.

[Max Taxable]

I think predictions of vB's demise are way premature. As I've said, I like xF, too. But I think it's going to be a few years before it's quite as feature rich as vB has been. Not to mention, it's a different animal, really. It offers something different, and will need to survive the anti-vB crowd that dominates it's support forums, before it grows into something more. And as we've already pointed out, what's practical isn't always what everybody thinks vB.org should do. It's not a flip of the switch, or a week worth of work thing. That's what they keep trying to tell us.

I do agree that vB.org needs a mobile skin, though. I thought about offering the one I've been developing for vB 3, but I doubt they'd be too keen on using anything third-party developed. For good reason. Not to mention, who knows if some of the core modifications the site uses even relies on templates.You can offer it to me, it is desperately needed and I like being a beta tester.

[DivisionByZero]

that's a good point of view too.

[Lynne]

I don't understand why anybody would want to view this site on a mobile device when the main thing users want to do is download or get help on an issue. Why would you download a modification on your phone or read about help for your site on a phone? I would never install a modification using a mobile device and I certainly wouldn't edit anything on my site with my phone.

Many sites, yes, they should be mobile friendly. But, I honestly don't think this site needs to be anymore mobile friendly than it is.

[ozzy47]

That's a good point. :)

[DivisionByZero]

For most, that's correct, but I (and others like me) who have a customer base here do a ton of communicating via PM here. That's where the hard part is for us.

[New Joe]

I don't understand why vb org doesn't use vB 6 as it could help with the testing of the vB 6 software which they will bring out next year :p

[Max Taxable]

U funneh New Joe!

[Digital Jedi]

I don't understand why anybody would want to view this site on a mobile device when the main thing users want to do is download or get help on an issue. Why would you download a modification on your phone or read about help for your site on a phone? I would never install a modification using a mobile device and I certainly wouldn't edit anything on my site with my phone.

Many sites, yes, they should be mobile friendly. But, I honestly don't think this site needs to be anymore mobile friendly than it is.
It's isn't mobile friendly at all, though. The font size is irregular on mobile devices in a single thread view. The width means you have to slide the forum back and forth to read some things, and let's not even mention the text editor (or worse when it's WYSIWYG mode.)

Keep in mind that mobile devices is, indeed, phones, and tablets going up to 10 inches or more. The site doesn't look or navigate as good as it could were it optimized. What percentage do any of us spend downloading modifications here? The vast majority of our time is spent asking questions, answering them, providing support and all that stuff inherent to any discussion forum. And the reason I can say all that is because I spend a lot of time on the site via different mobile devices. I've become super proficient with the Swype keyboard. And I'm an old guy. This is a very different generation. They're not daunted by touch screens or because the monitor is small. If they're going to be able to do something online while not at home, while in bed or simply not near the computer, they are. (And for the record, I've done bit of template editing via mobile, and the single reason I haven't done more is because the Admin CP isn't optimized for it. If it were, I would do it far more frequently. )

[JacquiiDesigns]

But we're not a hobby board with a pack of third-party mods installed. We're an official board ...
This is partly my point. vB.org is not a hobby board. It's an official, professional vBulletin modification site, and as such, it's my opinion that it should be an example of all that's wonderful with the latest, greatest vBulletin version. It should be a showcase. Sorry. But vB.org on 3.6.12 is not a showcase of what I would consider a modern forum platform.

It just looks old and stale imo. In comparison a board like http://theadminzone.com (which is on 3.7.x) looks incredible. IDK - I just think the .org deserves an upgrade.

I'm pretty sure that's actually my line, and none of the admins here noticed I added it to their lines. :D

...

Software doesn't wear out from use like a automobile can.

I see your point from a purely marketing perspective, however. The Cadillac dealer should always be driving the latest Cadillac - but other than for show, he has no compelling reason to do so.

vB dot com has the latest IB Yugo, vB dot org kept the Cadillac.
Wait a sec - how are you adding things to folks' lines again? Didn't Paul notice you suspiciously close to his Dr. Pepper?! LOL

Anyway = Gasping at vB.com - the Yugo... Touche about vB.org keeping the '90 Caddy -- but it's a classic now and seemingly in spectacular shape. We should place it in a museum so that all can glory at how marvelous it looked in 1990.

Time for an upgrade. No compelling reason - but the clock is tickin :P

If we're really going to milk that metaphor for all it's worth, then it would probably be more accurate to say vB.org is still driving Knight Rider. Sure, Knight Industries Three Thousand was awesome, but would you really give up the original K.I.T.T. to drive him?
Sacrilege! Noone in their right mind would give up Kitt. But since we are milking (or have milked I should say) the metaphor, I'd like to put in a vote for a Kitt-like Sleek Black paintjob for the .org? Pretty please - because Kitt in Purple Rain is driving me bonkers :P

-----
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Anyway - excellent points all. I truly do understand the 'if it ain't broke - don't fix it' thing. But you can only lie in bed saying such a thing for say 7-8 years before you really want to ((here comes another treacherous analogy lol)) change the bedroom sheets. :eek:

Ah... Yeah - and then there's the entire mobile friendly conversation...

[setishock]

There are many of these "Why don't you upgrade vb org" that if any one had bothered to do a search, they would see why they don't.
In one of them it is clearly stated the main reason is there are so many custom mods and tweaks for vb org that if they did upgrade, the mods would have to be written all over from scratch.
That's the bases for my comment "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Your voices aren't falling on deaf ears, I'm sure. But on ones who's hands are tied in some form or fashion. Be it IB protocol or the amount of work to upgrade, either is enough to put the kibosh on a large project as that.
In the end I'm happy to just have a place to come to where I can ask questions and get friendly answers. Maybe help some one out where I can.
I don't care how old the software is or what it looks like. I'm just glad it's here.

[BirdOPrey5]

For most, that's correct, but I (and others like me) who have a customer base here do a ton of communicating via PM here. That's where the hard part is for us.

Tell them to use Skype or email. Who wants to be deleting old PMs every week anyway? I really don't even know why we bother with a PM feature- people should opt in or not to emails and the PM form should just start an email conversation. Your email address isn't shown unless you reply.

[Paul M]

It should be a showcase. Sorry. But vB.org on 3.6.12 is not a showcase of what I would consider a modern forum platform.
We have been over this many times. vBulletin.org is not a showcase site, that is not its purpose in life. If you want to see the latest vBulletin, you visit vbulletin.com.

I really don't even know why we bother with a PM feature
PM's are a useful feature for occasional use.
Using them for constant communication is not the best choice, that would be far better done via e-mail

A mobile style would be nice, but you cannot just plug one in, many features here would break (we have 80+ customised templates).

Upgrading is not just a case of uploading a few files and running the upgrader.
Despite the fact we have also repeated this many times, I'll cover it again. Any upgrade is a huge effort - even going from just 3.6 to 3.8 is major work - as above, we have 80+ template edits to check or redo (or modify). Over 120 plugins to check, rewrite (or remove in some cases). Things like thread prefixes are a custom mod in 3.6, but a standard feture in 3.8. All our custom javascript would all need redoing (3.8 uses YUI, 3.6 did not). All out custom functions (contained in a number of custom files) would need to be checked.

Its a lot of work, so its not going to be done until there is a very good reason to do so.

Despite what most people think, the thing most likely to drive an eventual upgrade is the servers we run on. vBulletin 3.6 does not play well with php5.3, even less so php5.4. Eventually we are going to have to do something to move off the old Jelsoft servers we use onto newer servers, and they wont be running php 5.2.

[Max Taxable]

Despite what most people think, the thing most likely to drive an eventual upgrade is the servers we run on. vBulletin 3.6 does not play well with php5.3, even less so php5.4. Eventually we are going to have to do something to move off the old Jelsoft servers we use onto newer servers, and they wont be running php 5.2.And that.... Is a compelling reason.

[JacquiiDesigns]

We have been over this many times. vBulletin.org is not a showcase site, that is not its purpose in life. If you want to see the latest vBulletin, you visit vbulletin.com.

I know I know I know we've been over this..
You probably know better than most on here how Jacquii can't let a dead horse go unbeaten. ha.

I just think vB.org should be a showcase. It's the official vB modification site. If the tagline in the header is any indication - vB.org IS a showcase site whether we want to admit it or not.

Anyway - No biggy. A question was asked and I thought I'd peak my head in on the conversation and speak my peace yet again. ;)

[Max Taxable]

I know I know I know we've been over this..
You probably know better than most on here how Jacquii can't let a dead horse go unbeaten. ha.

I just think vB.org should be a showcase. It's the official vB modification site. If the tagline in the header is any indication - vB.org IS a showcase site whether we want to admit it or not.

Anyway - No biggy. A question was asked and I thought I'd peak my head in on the conversation and speak my peace yet again. ;)Official modification site.:D

[Digital Jedi]

I know I know I know we've been over this..
You probably know better than most on here how Jacquii can't let a dead horse go unbeaten. ha.

I just think vB.org should be a showcase. It's the official vB modification site. If the tagline in the header is any indication - vB.org IS a showcase site whether we want to admit it or not.

Anyway - No biggy. A question was asked and I thought I'd peak my head in on the conversation and speak my peace yet again. ;)

In that case, what better way to showcase than with the one that was especially easy to modify? ;)

But Paul makes a good point which I've eluded to elsewhere. A lot of us are going to be compelled to move on from 3.x most likely in a few short years.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Official modification site.:D
Semantics semantics :P

In that case, what better way to showcase than with the one that was especially easy to modify? ;)

IKR!
But then the thread title would be "Why are you guys still using vb 3.8.7 PL3" LOL

[Paul M]

Actually, if we moved to 3.8, it would be 3.8.8 ;)

[JacquiiDesigns]

Actually, if we moved to 3.8, it would be 3.8.8 ;)

Isn't it still in beta though and suggested not to use on live production sites?
Anyway - I say 3.8.8 is definitely an upgrade from 3.6.12 ==> go for it :)

[Paul M]

Isn't it still in beta though and suggested not to use on live production sites?
Nope, there is no suggestion you dont use it on live sites, there is no reason at all not to use it.

[BirdOPrey5]

In support we generally tell people Beta's are not recommended for live sites, but 3.8.8 is an exception.

[CarpCharacin]

i think it should be made responsive.

[Paul M]

No idea what "it" is, but this thread is 3 years old, closing.