do not buy vB 5.0

[madpickle]

I got vB 5.0 and there is no support at all and your ticket never get answer. the program is very very poor almost no adds on special for vB 5.0.5 got nothing at all.
The main thing is after you pay all you get is a middle finger nothing else, do not spend money on this crap vbulletin 5!:mad:

[katie hunter]

Vb 4.x is way better.

[Max Taxable]

And vB 3.8.X is way betternat!

[Simon Lloyd]

To be honest it is marketed as a beta!

[WEBDosser]

It's sad I know but have you seen how many people don't use forums any more, and how hard it is to get members for your forum and then to be able to keep them interested.

They say facebook does not harm forums, well I beg to differ on that one.

[Digital Jedi]

I still don't get why people are buying vB5, knowing vB5 is new and has issues, only to get angry when that all turns out to be true. Did anybody read the forums, demo the software on the website or Google it? I know if I ignore bad reviews, I only have myself to blame.

[crazyboy1661]

I think I am on safe side with 4.2.2 version.

[englishtalk]

I still don't get why people are buying vB5, knowing vB5 is new and has issues, only to get angry when that all turns out to be true. Did anybody read the forums, demo the software on the website or Google it? I know if I ignore bad reviews, I only have myself to blame.

Because if they're selling it, it should be fit for consumption: it should work. This isn't shareware, there should be refunds for anyone with an unfixable problem. They're just begging to be sued.

[shellcode]

I've seen far too many open-source projects have really poor documentation, if any at all..

But vbulletin 5 is really very poor than others..

To this day I still hear people complain that Vbulletin 5 has poor documentation.

Tell me guys; why?

[mokujin]

I have 2 licenses, 1 vb3 and 1 vb4. but will never buy vb5, let's see in a few years for vb6 :D

[shellcode]

I have 2 licenses, 1 vb3 and 1 vb4. but will never buy vb5, let's see in a few years for vb6 :D

genius lvl 6000+ :P

[Digital Jedi]

Because if they're selling it, it should be fit for consumption: it should work. This isn't shareware, there should be refunds for anyone with an unfixable problem. They're just begging to be sued.
If that were the criterion for being able to sue people, then I should be able to sue for every car I've owned. Ever. "Because they're selling" is terrible reasoning for "I should buy it", without doing a shred of research. I check the reviews before I buy a .99 cent app.

[Max Taxable]

It's sad I know but have you seen how many people don't use forums any more, and how hard it is to get members for your forum and then to be able to keep them interested.

They say facebook does not harm forums, well I beg to differ on that one.It will someday go the way of MySpace though. Might take a little longer due to mobile addiction, but it will.

[Digital Jedi]

It will someday go the way of MySpace though. Might take a little longer due to mobile addiction, but it will.
Keep in mind, the reason MySpace "went out", as the saying goes, is because MySpace was ultimately a terrible service. The code was dated and slow. Users could customize their pages to the extent that they typically bogged it down with videos and music embeds that slowed it even more. (And was never valid embed code.) And the ability to use custom CSS resulted in some of the most god-awful color combinations you could ever possibly imagine in your worst, fever-induced nightmares (http://www.famefoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Bad-MySpace-Design-620.jpg).

Add to all that, there was nothing to do there. There was no feed to see what your Friends were doing, and they didn't implement one until years after Facebook made it the standard.


With that said, MySpace is kind of nice now. Not what it was, but kind of nice: https://myspace.com/digitaljedi


Facebook isn't killing forums. They're not going to Facebook for discussion of their favorite niche. They're going for a one stop source of all their niches, friends and family's up-to-date info. If they have an interest in a particular topic, they'll go to those sites. After all, the internet is a big place. If being able to do all the stuff you do on Facebook killed all the other sites that specialize in what Facebook also does, Facebook would be killing the internet. No, people will seek out their favorite topic in spite of Facebook, and they'll visit your forum if they 1) find it in the sea of forums that already cover your topic, 2) have an interest in actually discussion that topic 3) are attracted to the vibe of your forum. Which are the things you had for and against you long before Facebook existed.

What Facebook might be killing, though, is off-topic, general discussion forums. Those were tough to build in the first place. I can't see them thriving in a Facebook world, easily.

[englishtalk]

If that were the criterion for being able to sue people, then I should be able to sue for every car I've owned. Ever. "Because they're selling" is terrible reasoning for "I should buy it", without doing a shred of research. I check the reviews before I buy a .99 cent app.

Poor logic. "not being right for me" is no reason to sue someone. "Not doing what they said it would do" is a perfect reason to sue someone. If you bought a brand new BMW and found it would only turn left, you could easily and successfully sue. Did you?

[WEBDosser]

vBulletin should have stayed with version 3 for a lot longer than it did when IB took over, IB reminds me of other companies that i have seen that do a take over, all they want is their money back asap and advance too fast and mistakes with product releases trying to get as much as possible out of it before it dies.

[Simon Lloyd]

It didn't die - they killed it!!!

[Max Taxable]

Facebook isn't killing forums. They're not going to Facebook for discussion of their favorite niche. They're going for a one stop source of all their niches, friends and family's up-to-date info. If they have an interest in a particular topic, they'll go to those sites. After all, the internet is a big place. If being able to do all the stuff you do on Facebook killed all the other sites that specialize in what Facebook also does, Facebook would be killing the internet. No, people will seek out their favorite topic in spite of Facebook, and they'll visit your forum if they 1) find it in the sea of forums that already cover your topic, 2) have an interest in actually discussion that topic 3) are attracted to the vibe of your forum. Which are the things you had for and against you long before Facebook existed.

What Facebook might be killing, though, is off-topic, general discussion forums. Those were tough to build in the first place. I can't see them thriving in a Facebook world, easily.Concur with that, but what's REALLY happening is, the mobile addiction. Forums by and large really haven't caught up yet with being mobile device friendly - people just want to use their phone for everything. It's convenience and it's dopamine.

--------------- Added 1382300906 at 1382300906 ---------------

vBulletin should have stayed with version 3 for a lot longer than it did when IB took over, IB reminds me of other companies that i have seen that do a take over, all they want is their money back asap and advance too fast and mistakes with product releases trying to get as much as possible out of it before it dies.Roger that.

[cellarius]

I check the reviews before I buy a .99 cent app.
Hm, and if they hide their customer reviews (aka feedback) from new customers?

[Digital Jedi]

Poor logic. "not being right for me" is no reason to sue someone. "Not doing what they said it would do" is a perfect reason to sue someone. If you bought a brand new BMW and found it would only turn left, you could easily and successfully sue. Did you?
But again, I should be able to sue every car company I ever purchased a car from on that basis. The way people post about vB5, is as if everything they've ever purchased before actually was superior "to the leading brand".


Hm, and if they hide their customer reviews (aka feedback) from new customers?
From new customers? I mean, if you went ahead and bought the product without reviewing it...that kinda goes back to my point. :confused:

[englishtalk]

But again, I should be able to sue every car company I ever purchased a car from on that basis. The way people post about vB5, is as if everything they've ever purchased before actually was superior "to the leading brand".



:-) but again, we're not talking about a product that's inferior to the leading brand, we're talking about catastrophic failure, about a product not fit for purpose - something that simply does not work. The cars you bought, I assume, started up and took you from A to B. Vbulletin 5 does not currently do that. My "latest activity" and "latest updated posts" etc display in largely random order. The Vbulletin tech says "hmm very puzzling" and that he hasn't seen this before. And I haven't heard anything back. If your new BMW didn't work and you heard that from the BMW dealer....well it would just never happen.

[Digital Jedi]

What I'm suggesting is, the product does basically work. It's a forum. If you got posts and threads that largely function as posts and threads, you've got a working forum. It gets you from A to B. The problems with vB aren't basic functionality. The problems are the air conditioner doesn't work right, the radio speakers are buggy and...do you smell gas? None of these seem like anything that would get you far in a court case.

[englishtalk]

What I'm suggesting is, the product does basically work. It's a forum. If you got posts and threads that largely function as posts and threads, you've got a working forum. It gets you from A to B. The problems with vB aren't basic functionality. The problems are the air conditioner doesn't work right, the radio speakers are buggy and...do you smell gas? None of these seem like anything that would get you far in a court case.

So it's a fine line, granted. But my latest posts stream doesn't work and that means people can't interact with my forum which means it's down the drain, bust.

[Max Taxable]

But my latest posts stream doesn't work and that means people can't interact with my forum which means it's down the drain, bust.You should start a thread on that here, there are tons of folks in this community who help others. You might be surprised.

[englishtalk]

You should start a thread on that here, there are tons of folks in this community who help others. You might be surprised.

Already done here and on the vbulletin.com forum No responses from either.

[mokujin]

vBulletin should have stayed with version 3 for a lot longer than it did when IB took over, IB reminds me of other companies that i have seen that do a take over, all they want is their money back asap and advance too fast and mistakes with product releases trying to get as much as possible out of it before it dies.
Jelsoft is from UK while IB is from US :D
Look at xenforo now (is from UK) and it's a far away better.
I bought one license from them.

[Spangle]

VB5 works if you want a basic forum with no add ons, and have a small community, there are forums out there running VB5 without problems

[cellarius]

VB5 works if you want a basic forum with no add ons, and have a small community, there are forums out there running VB5
Some.
without problems
I doubt that.

[TheLastSuperman]

Don't forget that 5 is getting better with time, like I've said before 4.x is running smooth at the moment so simply purchase a 5 license, install 4.x then upgrade to 5.x when its also running smoothly and done no worries, no stress*.

*Disclaimer: (WHAT?! lol) If you go crazy installing mods and tons of styles then yes when you upgrade to 5.x, if those said mods and styles do not have 5.x versions available they will not carry over and will need to be updated which may cost you money to have done although at this point in time the number of free and paid third-party modifications available for 5.x is not comparable to that of 4.x so there could be issues "carrying over" 4.x to 5.x mods regardless therefor running vBulletin 4.x for quite a while might be your best option at this point in time.

[Max Taxable]

Don't forget that 5 is getting better with time, like I've said before 4.x is running smooth at the moment so simply purchase a 5 license, install 4.x then upgrade to 5.x when its also running smoothly and done no worries, no stressI would even go so far as to say, install 3.8.x which is also downloadable when you buy your vB5 license.:) (Correct me if I am wrong.)

[rhodes_muc]

Because if they're selling it, it should be fit for consumption: it should work. This isn't shareware, there should be refunds for anyone with an unfixable problem. They're just begging to be sued.

I agree with englishtalk that a software prized $250 should be fully developed. Of course any new software has bugs. But in VB5 we don't talk about bugs, some parts are missing.

When customers visit vbulletin.com they get the impression of a sophisticated and robust software. But that's not true. There is no hint saying "wait a moment, we're in beta."

"Engaging social functionality"? Posting to facebook is not implemented till today. That is very disappointing. But the most disappointing thing is that nobody is able to fix a date when a missing feature will be production ready. Maybe we will see this feature next week. But maybe not until next year. Information policy is unacceptable. Therefore, a professional project planning is not possible at the moment with vb5.

Let me say one thing more. I really believe that vb5 has a brilliant api extension system. But what I would expect is a documentation for my developers. But there is no useful api documentation at all. Even some open source products have a much better documentation than vb5. Sorry to say this, but at the moment I'm very disappointed and although we have spent $250 we're looking for an alternative.

rhodes

[TheLastSuperman]

I would even go so far as to say, install 3.8.x which is also downloadable when you buy your vB5 license.:) (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Ohh you're free to install and run 3.x or 4.x or 5.x under the 5.x license so yeah either or ;).

[skol]

I agree with englishtalk that a software prized $250 should be fully developed. Of course any new software has bugs. But in VB5 we don't talk about bugs, some parts are missing.

When customers visit vbulletin.com they get the impression of a sophisticated and robust software. But that's not true. There is no hint saying "wait a moment, we're in beta."

"Engaging social functionality"? Posting to facebook is not implemented till today. That is very disappointing. But the most disappointing thing is that nobody is able to fix a date when a missing feature will be production ready. Maybe we will see this feature next week. But maybe not until next year. Information policy is unacceptable. Therefore, a professional project planning is not possible at the moment with vb5.

Let me say one thing more. I really believe that vb5 has a brilliant api extension system. But what I would expect is a documentation for my developers. But there is no useful api documentation at all. Even some open source products have a much better documentation than vb5. Sorry to say this, but at the moment I'm very disappointed and although we have spent $250 we're looking for an alternative.

rhodes

I agree with englishtalk that a software prized $250 should be fully developed.

You got vb3,vb4 and vb5 for that price (actually I think thats quite cheap). I and many others purchased 3 and 4 separately.

To be honest you get sick to death of reading threads and posts about vb5.You have new members who come to vborg and the first posts are a slanging match about vb5.

Yes,we all know what stage vb5 is at and unfortunately due to ignorance of people not reviewing the facts before purchase this is what happens.

I'm not disagreeing with what people are saying,in fact I totally agree vb5 was released to early.But saying that it works as a forum and thats what it was built to do.

No point keep going on about vb5 and what your all going to do about it.Just simply use vb3 or 4 wait until your happy with the standard of vb5 and then switch.

[englishtalk]

No point keep going on about vb5 and what your all going to do about it.Just simply use vb3 or 4 wait until your happy with the standard of vb5 and then switch.

Thanks for that but the only way to experience vb5 is to use it for a while and then there's no going back if you're unhappy with it.

[skol]

Thanks for that but the only way to experience vb5 is to use it for a while and then there's no going back if you're unhappy with it.


So as a webmaster you don't use a test board? Just basics buddy,you never take anything to a live site without testing..And that goes for everything.

[Digital Jedi]

Thanks for that but the only way to experience vb5 is to use it for a while and then there's no going back if you're unhappy with it.
In the beginning, I didn't get this, when vB 5 even said on the purchase page that it was a Beta. But we got the disgruntled "unfinished product" threads anyway. And now that this kind of thread can be found here, on vB.com and on every website devoted to being a forum admin, I still don't get it. Who's buying vB 5 now with blinders on? As I said before, I don't even buy a .99 cent app without first reading the reviews. It's not like you can't Google it (https://www.google.com/search?q=vb5+reviews&oq=vb5+reviews&aqs=chrome..69i57.2616j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&espv=210&psj=1&q=vbulletin+5+connect+reviews&safe=off). Again, who's to blame for buying software that doesn't work? If it doesn't work, then it can't be to hard to find out first. You don't just go by the spiel on the website's home page. Crazy Larry thinks his deals are great, too.

[Max Taxable]

In the beginning, I didn't get this, when vB 5 even said on the purchase page that it was a Beta. But we got the disgruntled "unfinished product" threads anyway. But... More people don't know what "Beta" means, than do. It just flies over the head of most people.

[ozzy47]

Yeah, but if you don't know what it means, then would you not ask?

[skol]

In the beginning, I didn't get this, when vB 5 even said on the purchase page that it was a Beta. But we got the disgruntled "unfinished product" threads anyway. And now that this kind of thread can be found here, on vB.com and on every website devoted to being a forum admin, I still don't get it. Who's buying vB 5 now with blinders on? As I said before, I don't even buy a .99 cent app without first reading the reviews. It's not like you can't Google it (https://www.google.com/search?q=vb5+reviews&oq=vb5+reviews&aqs=chrome..69i57.2616j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&espv=210&psj=1&q=vbulletin+5+connect+reviews&safe=off). Again, who's to blame for buying software that doesn't work? If it doesn't work, then it can't be to hard to find out first. You don't just go by the spiel on the website's home page. Crazy Larry thinks his deals are great, too.


It does work,and I bet anyone in this thread to go out there in www land and find a script that even matches vb5 nevermind surpass it.

You'll never see anything like vb5 created anywhere..Xenforo and likes will never attempt something like vb5,they don't have the money nor the backing.

The biggest problem is new customers will go for vb5 and don't understand vb to start with,it's like the person who created this thread.Where is he/she now..Probably using vb4 and learning that.

vb5 works and works well as is stands as a forum script but really should be on your test board..

[fholbert]

It's really a shame. Boards I'm a member of switched brands and the I like what I see. Was looking forward to VB5 for my board but what a disappointment. I'm currently upgrading to 4.2.2 but may move to XenForo soon. Once a board has moved on they never return to vBulletin.

[ozzy47]

That's not true, there are quite a few members I know that switched to different software, only to return. Sure some don't but some do.

[Digital Jedi]

But... More people don't know what "Beta" means, than do. It just flies over the head of most people.

It does work,and I bet anyone in this thread to go out there in www land and find a script that even matches vb5 nevermind surpass it.

You'll never see anything like vb5 created anywhere..Xenforo and likes will never attempt something like vb5,they don't have the money nor the backing.

The biggest problem is new customers will go for vb5 and don't understand vb to start with,it's like the person who created this thread.Where is he/she now..Probably using vb4 and learning that.

vb5 works and works well as is stands as a forum script but really should be on your test board..
But you see, you're both missing my point. If you spend hundreds of dollars, and don't do any research on what you're about to buy, who's fault is it when it doesn't work the way you wanted?

[Max Taxable]

But you see, you're both missing my point. If you spend hundreds of dollars, and don't do any research on what you're about to buy, who's fault is it when it doesn't work the way you wanted?Yes you are right and I got it right off, was just playing devil's advocate. Being facetious and a little sarcastic. :)

[cellarius]

Some are riding pretty high horses, here. It is all fine and dandy that you have lots of experience and know how to evaluate software and know all the admin forums where you can get independent opinions.

Guess what? Many of IB's potential customers are not. They see all the crap about market leader and worlds leading community software, with hundreds of new features promised. They may even surf around and find many big forums running vB. That may be vB4 or even vB3, but they see: Hey, that has to be reliable software. Then they may even surf the vbulletin website. But guess what? All the critical feedback is hidden away from them. They may even know that bugs are quite normal in software, but they are probably not used to being sold crap in a state that vB5 was in (and in many ways still is).

Are they to blame in part for not researching even more? Maybe. But what is sure as hell is that IB has sold half baked software not once, but twice. I really don't get how you guys really can be of the opinion that this mess is in the first place the fault of the customer. Said customer has every right to state his opinion, and if they want to do so in a place where it is not hidden away from potential new customers, then this is more than understandable. If that is more than you can bear, I suggest you just skip such threads (given the title of this thread pretty much gives away its content, doesn't it?)

[englishtalk]

who's fault is it when it doesn't work the way you wanted?

Is this what you'll write on IB/VB's tombstone after they've gone bankrupt? Or maybe "technically they were right and their customers were wrong!"

People were happy with their previous products, are happy with their competitors products, aren't happy with their current product. Does the conversation really have to be more nuanced than that?

[Digital Jedi]

Some are riding pretty high horses, here. It is all fine and dandy that you have lots of experience and know how to evaluate software and know all the admin forums where you can get independent opinions.

Guess what? Many of IB's potential customers are not. They see all the crap about market leader and worlds leading community software, with hundreds of new features promised. They may even surf around and find many big forums running vB. That may be vB4 or even vB3, but they see: Hey, that has to be reliable software. Then they may even surf the vbulletin website. But guess what? All the critical feedback is hidden away from them. They may even know that bugs are quite normal in software, but they are probably not used to being sold crap in a state that vB5 was in (and in many ways still is).

That link I posted is the Google search results to the term "vbulletin 5 connect reviews." And that's without quotes. The first third-party review on page 1 is a visible one star review. The next result is "vBulletin is dead." The third is "vBulletin 5 sucks". While I disagree with those points as they are stated, the fact is that basic, fundamental research is nothing new, difficult or special. This is basic consumerism.


Are they to blame in part for not researching even more? Maybe. But what is sure as hell is that IB has sold half baked software not once, but twice. I really don't get how you guys really can be of the opinion that this mess is in the first place the fault of the customer. Said customer has every right to state his opinion, and if they want to do so in a place where it is not hidden away from potential new customers, then this is more than understandable. If that is more than you can bear, I suggest you just skip such threads (given the title of this thread pretty much gives away its content, doesn't it?)

And other customers have the right to be tired of all the complaining. Especially when we either looked into vB5 and decided it wasn't ready for prime time, or conversely, we're running vB5 and it meets our standards for forum software. We get it, already. And as I pointed out above, the reviews are hardly hidden from someone willing to make the most basic gasp of an effort. If someone isn't expecting dissenting opinions from consumers of the opposite opinion, on one of the products official sites, then maybe this internet thing isn't for them.

--------------- Added 1382802536 at 1382802536 ---------------

Is this what you'll write on IB/VB's tombstone after they've gone bankrupt? Or maybe "technically they were right and their customers were wrong!"

People were happy with their previous products, are happy with their competitors products, aren't happy with their current product. Does the conversation really have to be more nuanced than that?
That slices a non-contextual portion of my post, and my overall comments, in favor of hyperbole. What I said was, by now, the surprised, disgruntled threads are wearing a bit thin considering the amount of time that's passed, the number of these threads that already exist, and the fact that anyone with a address bar on their browser could have avoided their own hassles.

[Max Taxable]

Some are riding pretty high horses, here. It is all fine and dandy that you have lots of experience and know how to evaluate software and know all the admin forums where you can get independent opinions.

Guess what? Many of IB's potential customers are not. They see all the crap about market leader and worlds leading community software, with hundreds of new features promised. They may even surf around and find many big forums running vB. That may be vB4 or even vB3, but they see: Hey, that has to be reliable software. Then they may even surf the vbulletin website. But guess what? All the critical feedback is hidden away from them. They may even know that bugs are quite normal in software, but they are probably not used to being sold crap in a state that vB5 was in (and in many ways still is).

Are they to blame in part for not researching even more? Maybe. But what is sure as hell is that IB has sold half baked software not once, but twice. I really don't get how you guys really can be of the opinion that this mess is in the first place the fault of the customer. Said customer has every right to state his opinion, and if they want to do so in a place where it is not hidden away from potential new customers, then this is more than understandable. If that is more than you can bear, I suggest you just skip such threads (given the title of this thread pretty much gives away its content, doesn't it?)Very good points.

And point of note I definitely agree with the thread title. They will have to pry my old school, vB 3.8.7 out of me cold, dead hands.

[englishtalk]

That slices a non-contextual portion of my post, and my overall comments, in favor of hyperbole. What I said was, by now, the surprised, disgruntled threads are wearing a bit thin considering the amount of time that's passed, the number of these threads that already exist, and the fact that anyone with a address bar on their browser could have avoided their own hassles.

Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.

[Max Taxable]

Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.You paid for the download. There is no way for them to collect that back. So what you're essentially saying is, you want the software license for free.

You got it, you own it, you are a vBulletin license holder and you can use version 3, version 4 or version 5. If 5 is really this objectionable to you, why not try the others?

[englishtalk]

You paid for the download. There is no way for them to collect that back. So what you're essentially saying is, you want the software license for free.

You got it, you own it, you are a vBulletin license holder and you can use version 3, version 4 or version 5. If 5 is really this objectionable to you, why not try the others?

Show me an easy way to go back to 4.2.2 without losing posts and I'll do it immediately. If not, the previous licenses don't help me.

[Max Taxable]

Show me an easy way to go back to 4.2.2 without losing posts and I'll do it immediately. If not, the previous licenses don't help me.Take a sql of your database and import it to the new database.

You're far better off with v3.8.8 IMO.

[ozzy47]

Take a sql of your database and import it to the new database.

You're far better off with v3.8.8 IMO.

The structures are completely different.....this isn't going to be possible.

I have heard some people say there is paid services out there that can do it, and IIRC there were some people reporting converting vB5 to some other forum software then going from that to vB4

[Max Taxable]

"Look before you leap" seems to be operative here.

[Digital Jedi]

Perhaps I agree that the surprise shown is wearing thin but that should have nothing to do with legitimate disgruntle. If something isn't fit for purpose, the money should be refunded. Reviews/experience/anything doesn't negate that.
And we'll take the word of the consumer that they've fully uninstalled the software from any and all websites and have deleted their copy, correct? How many days do you get to return it? Virtually no ordered products have an open ended return policy. You have so much time to return them to the manufacturer. How long do you get to run a board before you've decided you don't like it? Do you go back to one of your previous license statuses?

Software downloads are a tricky thing to ask refunds for, considering you don't have a tangible product to return to the manufacturer. Both Apple and MicroSoft have a software return policy that requires you uninstall the product from any computer. But I imagine there are ways to enforce that, and in those cases you have a disc you can return. Some manufacturers allow return of their software only if the package has not been opened. On the other hand, what you purchased form vB was a license, not a tangible, returnable product. What you're asking for, I don't think there's a business model for it.

[englishtalk]

And we'll take the word of the consumer that they've fully uninstalled the software from any and all websites and have deleted their copy, correct?

I think you're dodging the context here, which is pretty unilateral discontent with Vbulletin. If something doesn't change, like refunds to all downloads, it'll be the end of vb. In any case, they're probably finished - there are so many new startups now that'll take the market.

[craigvm]

just a warning if vbulletin dont like what you say about there software they will stop you from posting on vbulletin.com. i can no longer post on there after saying something bad about there release

[Digital Jedi]

I think you're dodging the context here, which is pretty unilateral discontent with Vbulletin. If something doesn't change, like refunds to all downloads, it'll be the end of vb. In any case, they're probably finished - there are so many new startups now that'll take the market.
Not at all. I'm saying that you're asking one company to invoke a standard that has no precedence, or really good way to do. Based on you're own perception of discontent. Be wary of the echo chamber. A bunch of people getting on the same website(s) about the same subject over and over again, is hardly an accurate measure to go by.


just a warning if vbulletin dont like what you say about there software they will stop you from posting on vbulletin.com. i can no longer post on there after saying something bad about there release
If you're not allowed to say something they don't like, why is your thread still there? You're not listed as banned member.

[craigvm]

i can post on there again now but funny how my posts was moderated and i could`nt start a new thread in the support forums after slagging vb off dont you think

[cellarius]

Be wary of the echo chamber.
Be wary of rose-tinted spectacles.
Or, A bunch of people getting on the same website(s) about the same subject over and over again, is hardly an accurate measure to go by.
Here's some sort of pretty accurate measure: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/vbulletin-5-connect/vbulletin-5-connect-feedback/3994973-addon-situation

[Digital Jedi]

i can post on there again now but funny how my posts was moderated and i could`nt start a new thread in the support forums after slagging vb off dont you think
No, not really. You never really said why you couldn't post.


Be wary of rose-tinted spectacles.

Do your research.
Count your costs.
Also hold yourself accountable for your purchasing decisions.


I'm not really sure how "rose-colored" applies here.

Here's some sort of pretty accurate measure: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/vbulletin-5-connect/vbulletin-5-connect-feedback/3994973-addon-situation
Um, a thread is accurate measure?

[cellarius]

I'm not really sure how "rose-colored" applies here.
I'm sure you're perfectly capable of understanding the context. You do remember that you were the one implying that the criticism of vB5 was an echo-chamber of a few, do you?`If not, read the quote I answered to.


Um, a thread is accurate measure?
Oh, and I thought you would get the idea and click the link. Maybe even read the post. My fault. So: Click the link and read the post.

[Digital Jedi]

I'm sure you're perfectly capable of understanding the context. You do remember that you were the one implying that the criticism of vB5 was an echo-chamber of a few, do you?`If not, read the quote I answered to.
I would understand if I had placed anything in a positive light. I haven't done that.



Oh, and I thought you would get the idea and click the link. Maybe even read the post. My fault. So: Click the link and read the post.
I did read your observations. When I talked about accurate measure, I meant something beyond an observation. Such as measured statistics from a credible third-party source. As always, we make the mistake that the add-on/admin online community isn't a fraction of the number of forum owners as a whole. Our feedback, and whether or not we're making add-ons, isn't an accurate of measure of things. All tying back to the fact, that no matter how discontent you are, you're not getting a refund on a download. Because that's not something that done, nor a very good business model.

[skol]

Looks like vb5 seems to be a new start all round.I'm sure we'll see the money making coders out in force six months on from now.

Hobby coding, is a thing of the past in these guys eyes.Coders here left people in the lurch on both vb3 and 4.So not everyone is innocent here.What did you expect IB to do? Their only way was to create vb5 on their terms.

Why vborg is showing to support it must simply because of monetary value or back handers from the likes of established syndicate coders.

That might sound harsh,but I only see Dbtech really getting involved with vb5 on here.

[Simon Lloyd]

Coders didnt leave anyone in the lurch, they all (like me) have normall lives away from here and full time jobs. Make no mistake dbtech are really only there to ply their commercial products or links (if you have updated your dbtech mods from here you may or may have not noticed the links appearing in all your footers..etc when they orginally didnt).

I'm not against them making money, everyone needs to put bread on the table, i'm just trying to get you to see the reality of it, if they are coding for vb5 then good on them.

[skol]

I'm not against them making money, everyone needs to put bread on the table

Why do you need to do that,as you said and they always say the same,"we have lives" and full time jobs.It's a coders cliche now that statement.

I have a full time job and a life plus four sites to run,I can't pick and choose.So what gives you (the coders) the right to use that statement as always as an excuse.

As I said vb5 will see the money coders and you confirmed that Simon.Thanks.

[Simon Lloyd]

The statement "we have lives" means that because we have released a mod on here for free for your use it doesn't mean that we are at your beck and call if anything goes wrong, we give support as and when we can, i personally support all my mods all the time but i understand lifes pressures...etc that can cause some coders not to.

As it's free there aren't any warranties...etc so, paying for it is how you get those assurities :)

[Digital Jedi]

As I recall, there's a guideline somewhere around here that says you use third-party modifications at your own risk. That's not an excuse. That's a fact. No one is obliged to give things away for free in perpetuity. And no one should be hinging anything crucial on a free add-on. Even a paid add-on can go *poof* in the middle of the night.

[tombo82685]

Quick questin, i have vb 5.05, and from reading this site I'm going to install vb 4.22 for the add ons since i can't get really anything on the new vers. With 4.22 are their hotlink and hide codes available?

[nhawk]

Looks like vb5 seems to be a new start all round.I'm sure we'll see the money making coders out in force six months on from now.

Hobby coding, is a thing of the past in these guys eyes.Coders here left people in the lurch on both vb3 and 4.So not everyone is innocent here.What did you expect IB to do? Their only way was to create vb5 on their terms.

Why vborg is showing to support it must simply because of monetary value or back handers from the likes of established syndicate coders.

That might sound harsh,but I only see Dbtech really getting involved with vb5 on here.

Something you need to keep in mind about DBTech is that it isn't one person. DBTech is a company with quite a few coders working for them.

So if you have 10 coders focusing on products that only they work on, it is a lot easier for them to update/produce products than it is for a single coder.

I have released add-ons for vB5, but due to the vB5 code being in constant flux I've had to step back and wait for it to stabilize before I do any more updates to those mods. With over 40 publicly available add-ons and God knows how many custom/private mods to support I can't be doing updates to vB5 add-ons on almost a weekly basis.

Combine that with what seems to be an en-mass move of many of my clients to another forum system with the expectation of my mods to follow them and time becomes a very precious commodity. In this case vB5 takes a back seat to vB4 and other more stabile software.

--------------- Added 1383141740 at 1383141740 ---------------

Quick questin, i have vb 5.05, and from reading this site I'm going to install vb 4.22 for the add ons since i can't get really anything on the new vers. With 4.22 are their hotlink and hide codes available?

If you do a search of the vB4 mods forum using the word 'hide' and search titles only, you'll probably find what you want.

[skol]

The statement "we have lives" means that because we have released a mod on here for free for your use it doesn't mean that we are at your beck and call if anything goes wrong, we give support as and when we can, i personally support all my mods all the time but i understand lifes pressures...etc that can cause some coders not to.

As it's free there aren't any warranties...etc so, paying for it is how you get those assurities :)

Thats dependant on whether the mod is in your interest to post it here. Most are carrying lite versions these days which lead on to your were you have to be at the beck and call of everyone. And then suddenly the "The Statement" is never stated..

As I recall, there's a guideline somewhere around here that says you use third-party modifications at your own risk. That's not an excuse. That's a fact. No one is obliged to give things away for free in perpetuity. And no one should be hinging anything crucial on a free add-on. Even a paid add-on can go *poof* in the middle of the night.

Sorry I've lost you on that statement.So why are we posting here at vborg? In fact what was vborg created for?

Something you need to keep in mind about DBTech is that it isn't one person. DBTech is a company with quite a few coders working for them.

So if you have 10 coders focusing on products that only they work on, it is a lot easier for them to update/produce products than it is for a single coder.

I have released add-ons for vB5, but due to the vB5 code being in constant flux I've had to step back and wait for it to stabilize before I do any more updates to those mods. With over 40 publicly available add-ons and God knows how many custom/private mods to support I can't be doing updates to vB5 add-ons on almost a weekly basis.

Combine that with what seems to be an en-mass move of many of my clients to another forum system with the expectation of my mods to follow them and time becomes a very precious commodity. In this case vB5 takes a back seat to vB4 and other more stabile software.

I totally agree with you.Thats why I stated:

Why vborg is showing to support it must simply because of monetary value or back handers from the likes of established syndicate coders.

I don't doubt your integrity to vb4,but as you have said vb5 takes a back seat.So we then go back to what I said.

As I said vb5 will see the money coders

[Digital Jedi]

Thats dependant on whether the mod is in your interest to post it here. Most are carrying lite versions these days which lead on to your were you have to be at the beck and call of everyone. And then suddenly the "The Statement" is never stated..

Sorry I've lost you on that statement.So why are we posting here at vborg? In fact what was vborg created for?
For downloading free add-ons that people want to give to the community. Under a stipulation that is no different from any other third-party add-on site. When you get something for free, you know what you're getting into.

Of course you won't make that statement if you're offering a paid add-on. Because that person has decided that he can make a reasonable commitment to the project. In which case "The Statement" becomes "The Terms of Service". In which case, you still don't get any perpetual guarantees.

[skol]

For downloading free add-ons that people want to give to the community. Under a stipulation that is no different from any other third-party add-on site. When you get something for free, you know what you're getting into.


Thanks for that.So when did the rules change to allow lite versions? As opposed to pro versions,and as you said free add-ons.

[ozzy47]

Lite versions of commercial modifications are permitted to be released here as long as:
It is a working modification
It is not time limited in any way
It is completely free to the user
It is stand alone and completely separate to the full version
A single link back to the commercial version is permitted, as long as no pricing or promotional language is used in the link or embedded into the lite version.

[Digital Jedi]

Thanks for that.So when did the rules change to allow lite versions? As opposed to pro versions,and as you said free add-ons.
As far as I know, it's always been that way.

[Mark.B]

Hobby coding, is a thing of the past in these guys eyes.Coders here left people in the lurch on both vb3 and 4.So not everyone is innocent here.What did you expect IB to do? Their only way was to create vb5 on their terms.
Nobody gets "left in the lurch" by FREE modifications.

My vB4 site has lots of valued modifications, I'm eternally grateful to the authors of each and every one of them, including the ones who've moved on and aren't around here any more.

If something breaks on an "abandoned" mod, I'll try to fix it myself, which may include asking for help on this very site. If I can't fix it - I'll have to remove it. But I won't have been "left in the lurch", because I always know that's one of the risks. If I don't like it I can always pay someone.

[Decado]

Coders didnt leave anyone in the lurch, they all (like me) have normall lives away from here and full time jobs. Make no mistake dbtech are really only there to ply their commercial products or links (if you have updated your dbtech mods from here you may or may have not noticed the links appearing in all your footers..etc when they orginally didnt).

I'm not against them making money, everyone needs to put bread on the table, i'm just trying to get you to see the reality of it, if they are coding for vb5 then good on them.

Just popping in to say that i'm not a huge fan of that characterization. Our lite/pro version feature split is always a minimum of 75/25 in favour of the lite version when v1 is released. The split never drops below 65/35 in any future version either.

If we were really only there to ply our commercial products, the lite versions wouldn't be so strong. Not to mention all of the coders that make up DBTech have a history of releasing completely free mods here on vb.org. Oh, and we've released over 20 completely free mods without pro versions as a company.

I don't really understand why some coders feel the need to portray us as some greedy company versus their altruistic selves, but I do wish they would at least get the facts straight.

For those wondering, DBTech isn't made up of 10 coders. At this exact moment in time it consists of four active coders, two of which we essentially trained from scratch. Between the free (not lite) mods they released under the DBTech banner, and the free mods they have released under their own names, DBTech coders have produced something like 60 completely free mods for the community, and another 60 or so very strongly featured lite mods.

No one is getting rich from vBulletin mods; we sell them so we can afford to be able to continue producing and supporting new mods and features full time.

Sorry about the little ramble there. Regarding vB5, there is no money there at all at the moment. Anyone producing commercial modifications for it, including us, would lose a significant amount of money. We're porting mods to it at this point because users or customers of our mods for earlier vB versions have asked us to. All of the ports we have done so far have cost us money, for the record.

Not sure how that fits with the narrative that all we're interested in is money and we never do things just because we want to help people out or give something to the community, but i'm sure someone will come up with a way.

vB5 as a piece of software as a ton of potential. I personally don't think it's yet developed to a point that would make it a good replacement for vB 3.8 or vb 4.2, but it certainly has the framework to be a very good bit of software in the future. Not unlike how I didn't necessarily consider vB4 better than vB3 until several updates had been released. The potential was pretty evident from the start there as well.

Iain
DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

[skol]

Lite versions of commercial modifications are permitted to be released here as long as:
It is a working modification
It is not time limited in any way
It is completely free to the user
It is stand alone and completely separate to the full version
A single link back to the commercial version is permitted, as long as no pricing or promotional language is used in the link or embedded into the lite version.


So what are the consequences to coders if these 5 simple rules are not implemented.Do they just simply get a slap on the wrist..Or is it dependent on who you are?

[Wajow-community]

I am on vb 4.2.1 good forum.

[cellarius]

So what are the consequences to coders if these 5 simple rules are not implemented.
They get flogged, tortured, then put to the wheel.

In earnest: If no one reports it, no one will act. The consequence will probably be the addon being removed. Aside from that, it may well depend a bit on the person/case, and rightly so. If someone who has contributed to the community for a long time breaks such a rule (maybe even inadvertently), you don't just hit them with the ban-stick.

[TheLastSuperman]

They get flogged, tortured, then put to the wheel.

In earnest: If no one reports it, no one will act. The consequence will probably be the addon being removed. Aside from that, it may well depend a bit on the person/case, and rightly so. If someone who has contributed to the community for a long time breaks such a rule (maybe even inadvertently), you don't just hit them with the ban-stick.

Not true we just keep it simple, we have a vbulletin.org branding iron here labeled "THIS IS SPARTAAAAVB.ORG" we burn into you if you violate our site in any manner it's painful too I had Marco use it on me once :eek: jk jk

Yes if no one reports and we don't see it then its virtually invisible to those with the power to take action... basically what you said I just worded it differently lol. For me regardless if new or old member I tend to give a harmless warning first time via pm i.e. a "heads up, don't do that, this is why blah blah blah" per say, after all some truly do not know all the rules despite using the site regularly, the new guys and gals have an excuse the veterans of this site not so much :p.

[Blueracer66]

I am running vBulletin 3.8.8 Beta 1 and I am happy with it.

[cloferba]

I am running vBulletin 3.8.8 Beta 1 and I am happy with it.

I feel good for you (?)

[skol]

Not true we just keep it simple, we have a vbulletin.org branding iron here labeled "THIS IS SPARTAAAAVB.ORG" we burn into you if you violate our site in any manner it's painful too I had Marco use it on me once :eek: jk jk

Yes if no one reports and we don't see it then its virtually invisible to those with the power to take action... basically what you said I just worded it differently lol. For me regardless if new or old member I tend to give a harmless warning first time via pm i.e. a "heads up, don't do that, this is why blah blah blah" per say, after all some truly do not know all the rules despite using the site regularly, the new guys and gals have an excuse the veterans of this site not so much :p.

And do you pm a harmless warning to anyone? Thats not as you put it old or new members,I'm relating to companies as opposed to individual members as you put it.

[TheLastSuperman]

^ I try a harmless warning with all however companies attempting to do lite versions of their modifications on here should take the time to read the site rules (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=rules) and as cellarius said sometimes we simply remove the thread/mod as they should "know".

Does everyone receive a pm? No.
Is a pm required? No.

We do try being courteous by sending a pm letting members know why we did this or that etc, just seems nice to let them know "why" action was taken.

[skol]

So how do the likes of DBtech,get around rule #13..

No affiliate links may be posted anywhere on vbulletin.org nor be included in any mod code or template. Affiliate links are links with unique code to give you credit or financial gain when a user clicks on it. This includes not using "URL Shortening" for links to any sites with potential for affiliate credit.

[ozzy47]

Show proof of where they posted a affiliate link on this site.

[cellarius]

So how do the likes of DBtech,get around rule #13..
You seem to have a personal issue with them - so go and take it out with them elsewhere.
Or you can point to a concrete break of rules, then why don't you just report it?

But don't expect a coder collective that has provided many useful addons to vB (be it free or paid) to be banned or something in the blink of an eye.

[Decado]

So how do the likes of DBtech,get around rule #13..

If you're referring to the Hivelocity link, that's a tracking link to let Hivelocity see where their traffic/signups are coming from. We do not receive any form of affiliate payments or credit from them. Instead we ask that any DBTech customer gets an extra discount by the sales staff by mentioning DBTech :).

Iain

[skol]

You seem to have a personal issue with them - so go and take it out with them elsewhere.
Or you can point to a concrete break of rules, then why don't you just report it?

But don't expect a coder collective that has provided many useful addons to vB (be it free or paid) to be banned or something in the blink of an eye.

I'm merely using DBTech as an example. I can't use you as an example due to your signature.But I could always come back with as you put it,and quote.

But don't expect a coder collective that has provided many useful addons to vB (be it free or paid) to be banned or something in the blink of an eye.


So what happened to Christos Teriakis?

[ozzy47]

I'm merely using DBTech as an example. I can't use you as an example due to your signature.But I could always come back with as you put it,and quote.



So what happened to Christos Teriakis?


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[Paul M]

This seems to have gone way way off topic, into pointless arguments. Closed.