vBulletin.org 5.0

[smirkley]

OK, bear with me.

vB org is old and tired and it is beyond upgrade to vB5, let alone vB4.

But it is still a huge resource.

Consider this...

vB org currently resolves to vbulletin.org/forum/ as a home page.

Keep it there, ok so far?

On the root though put a fresh cut of vB 5 on it. Put a link in the navbar of vborg5 using the new Nav manager for the "Legacy vBulletin.org", and start building the new vBorg for the vBulletin5.0 modifications after vB5 becomes gold. No it wont have every single feature, but that can be built upon with time. No the old vborg wont be closed, but remain open for legacy users.

Yes, it will get vb org back in this decade and up front.

And as a user community extension of the vb com site, it ought to be brought forward and represent.

jm2c

[Simon Lloyd]

One question, what does vb5 do that the current version used here doesn't do that will greatly enhance what this particular site is all about?

It's clean, functional and is entirely fit for the purpose, everyone who has vbulletin software knows how to use this site and it's not bewildering to newbies, i can see no valid reason to ever make this site "current", it does what it does and does it well :)

[Digital Jedi]

Even with that suggestion, your still saying, essentially, start building a new vB.org. And the problem is, and always has been, that no one has time to start re-building vB.org. It's not a simple effort, and I very seriously doubt it's something that can be rolled out gradually. The custom coding would have to be rewritten from the ground up. I'm sure when/if they find the time (and I'm also guessing this something that would require more than one person working on), they'll do it, but until then the site works every bit as it should. Rebuilding would mean for a time, that would not be guaranteed.

[BirdOPrey5]

I personally would not split my time between 2 vb.org sites, I barely have time for this one.

[smirkley]

Well ok, I guess that pretty much sums it up.

It was mearly a suggestion ya know.

However perfect things seem,... someday it will havta happen. Sooner or later.

[Lynne]

I do think it's an interesting idea and I have thought the same thing before - it would be cool to have vb5 mods shown in vb5 software and vb4 in vb4 software, but trying to write a script to integrate all three sites would be a mess - especially now with the way vb5 uses nodes instead of posts in the database. Paul is skilled, but I think even he would get a headache trying to code this up!

[smirkley]

Well thanks Lynne. Sincerely.

But instead of messing it all up with three different sites and special code,... what I was suggesting is to have the Legacy site where it is at, and start building the new site on root.

VB org is on what 3.6?,,,.. and vB com is getting ready to roll out v5 when it goes gold?... and someday likely 3 or so years,... we will have vB6. etc.

I know BirdOPrey5 can only handle one site to moderate, and I wouldnt expect more than that of anyone here as I know it is work.

And since it is just too much to handle to migrate the current vB org over to 5,..

Why not just make a vB5 instance on the root.

Leaves me with the question of just how long vB org will be supporting legacy products prior to 5. And if they do or dont, how long is vB org going to be running on legacy software but yet representing the new stuff?

Seriously, I really dont care myself. I will always come to vB org for quality third party extensions for my website whether on 3, 4, or 5, or whatever.

My suggestion was only for image and marketing reasons in regards to the vB conglomerate of sites.

Thanks for letting me offer my feedback, as it is.

-Mark-

[Paul M]

There are no current plans to move the site to vB5.

Atm, our efforts are concentrated on vB5 development, and the main vb.com site.
This site runs quite happily as it is, so for the moment at least, its a case of "it aint broke, so dont fix it".

[BirdOPrey5]

I know BirdOPrey5 can only handle one site to moderate, and I wouldnt expect more than that of anyone here as I know it is work.

I meant I wouldn't contribute to 2 sites, moderating is easy.

[gamerfu]

"it aint broke, so dont fix it".Best computer philosophy ever. :cool:

[Zantox]

"it aint broke, so dont fix it".

Yea I agree with this too.
I'm personally not a big fan of vB5 anyways.
It made the vBulletin.com forum very laggy for me.
All the flash and drop downs and things flying everywhere, I'm not a fan of it.

[Lionel]

Besides it would be a nightmare to have vB 5.0 coded to implement all the customizations of this actual site.

[Digital Jedi]

Generally, I would say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is one of the worst all around philosophies for anything, anywhere, ever. But in this case, the addendum would be "and you don't have the time." The site is working and doesn't really have a downside to keeping it the way it is, AND there do not appear to be the appropriate resources (e.g. time) to make such an elaborate transition. So, in this case, I can see where they're coming from.

[JacquiiDesigns]

OK, bear with me.

vB org is old and tired
Agreed.

There are no current plans to move the site to vB5.

Atm, our efforts are concentrated on vB5 development, and the main vb.com site.
This site runs quite happily as it is, so for the moment at least, its a case of "it aint broke, so dont fix it".
This mentality just kills me. Well not really.

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that? "My site ain't broke, so there's no need to "fix" it to the broken vB-anything-above-3.8.x..."

vBulletin the software would have ceased to exist is what would happen. Anyway... Moving on....

J.

[kh99]

I agree with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I interpret it less literally to mean "don't make changes unless you understand the costs vs. benefits". If you take it that way, I think we all agree.

Applying that to vbulletin.org, obviously some people are of the opinion that it would be worth the costs to upgrade vbulletin.org. But the people who actually have to pay for it don't feel that way. In the absence of actual data to support the argument, it's just a difference of opinion.

[Paul M]

Posts removed.

vB.org is not the place for rants about vB5.
If you want to do that, feel free to do so elsewhere.

[Lynne]

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that? "My site ain't broke, so there's no need to "fix" it to the broken vB-anything-above-3.8.x..."
I am not the bulk of vb customers, but I am one. I bought a vB3 license, updated it for several years, and I'm happy with my 3.8 site. It gives me and my users all we need. I can't say that there is anything in any more recent version that we *need* on my site. So, vB3.8 is where I will keep my site. (Of course, it's heavily modified and so the things I really need are nothing that will every be offered in the default software anyway.)

[Chris8]

But maybe before any radical moves like this ask people what they want by a poll cause for example I myself don't want any changes and I bet it would only complicate things.

[Digital Jedi]

Agreed.


This mentality just kills me. Well not really.

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that? "My site ain't broke, so there's no need to "fix" it to the broken vB-anything-above-3.8.x..."

vBulletin the software would have ceased to exist is what would happen. Anyway... Moving on....

J.
However, that's not really the issue. Which is the point I was trying to make with my last post. The real issue is who has the time to make all the changes. You and I both know that rebuilding a website is something you can, and should, only do when you have all the resources at your disposal. Having the know-how is one resource. Having the time to implement that know-how is another. (And having the time to standby and work out all the bugs of your new creation, is one thing more.)

--------------- Added 1363737279 at 1363737279 ---------------

But maybe before any radical moves like this ask people what they want by a poll cause for example I myself don't want any changes and I bet it would only complicate things.
A website upgrade should be an administrative decision, not a user end one. They would know better than anyone whether it's appropriate or not.

[Zantox]

So, vB3.8 is where I will keep my site. (Of course, it's heavily modified and so the things I really need are nothing that will every be offered in the default software anyway.)

A website upgrade should be an administrative decision, not a user end one. They would know better than anyone whether it's appropriate or not.

^. Done thread is done.

[JacquiiDesigns]

However, that's not really the issue. Which is the point I was trying to make with my last post. The real issue is who has the time to make all the changes. You and I both know that rebuilding a website is something you can, and should, only do when you have all the resources at your disposal. Having the know-how is one resource. Having the time to implement that know-how is another. (And having the time to standby and work out all the bugs of your new creation, is one thing more.)

I appreciate your response, but honestly, you make it seem as if vB.org is a hobbiest property. vB.org is not a hobbiest property, it is the official mod community of the vBulletin script. As such, I believe it should be running (flaunting as it should be called) the latest, greatest version of the software.

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that the latest, greatest version of vBulletin is 3.8.7 --- vB.org is running 3.6.x ---- If I were the proud owner of the vBulletin script, I'd have done either:

1. Instead of investing huge capital in a most bogus lawsuit -- whose purpose it seems was to wear down the competition -- spend that huge capital investing into vB.org - an official representative of vBulletin, the script.

2. Lawsuit aside. Invest in your official property. I'd have placed some of my contracted developers on vB.org - tasking them with upgrading the site from head to toe.

What I wouldn't do - is continually make excuses of how great vB.org works as-is.

And to answer your question DJ - Who could make all the changes, preparing the upgrade? Well... Paid IB developers of course, because again, vB.org is not a hobbiest property. It's a property which needs investing. And though the functionality is lovely for 3.6 series, the look is old & tired. Yeah - I'd invest immediately!

Hope this makes sense. And yeah - I know - Hate to keep beating a dead horse... But sometimes a dead horse just needs to be beat or at minimum - lathered up, cleaned and prepared for viewing :P LOL

J.

--------------- Added 1363807556 at 1363807556 ---------------

I am not the bulk of vb customers, but I am one. I bought a vB3 license, updated it for several years, and I'm happy with my 3.8 site. It gives me and my users all we need. I can't say that there is anything in any more recent version that we *need* on my site. So, vB3.8 is where I will keep my site. (Of course, it's heavily modified and so the things I really need are nothing that will every be offered in the default software anyway.)

Yeah - My poetry forum on vBulletin was heavily modified as well. I started out on vB 3.5.4 and over the course of 3-4 years ended with vB 3.8.7 --- I decided it was time to upgrade. Not being much a fan of vB after the 3 series (LOL) I decided to upgrade to another script.

I think -- more and more increasingly over time -- other vB 3.8 license holders will do the same.

--------------- Added 1363807599 at 1363807599 ---------------

^. Done thread is done.

LOL

[Paul M]

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that?
What other sites do [or dont do] is up to them, and of no relevance to vbulletin.org. :)

[Paul M]

I appreciate your response, but honestly, you make it seem as if vB.org is a hobbiest property. vB.org is not a hobbiest property, it is the official mod community of the vBulletin script. As such, I believe it should be running (flaunting as it should be called) the latest, greatest version of the software.

This is completely untrue.

As has been covered many times now, vbulletin.org is not a "show" site. If you want to see the latest, visit vbulletin.com.
There is no requirement for this site to upgrade to anything just for the sake of upgrading. It would be a hell of a lot of work, even just to get to 3.8.7.

[JacquiiDesigns]

What other sites do [or dont do] is up to them, and of no relevance to vbulletin.org. :)
Yeah yeah yeah...
But you failed to answer my question, which truly has nothing to do with what vB.org is doing, but rather, how such an excuse (ain't broke - don't fix it) would bankrupt vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This is completely untrue.

As has been covered many times now, vbulletin.org is not a "show" site. If you want to see the latest, visit vbulletin.com.
There is no requirement for this site to upgrade to anything just for the sake of upgrading. It would be a hell of a lot of work, even just to get to 3.8.7.
What is untrue? o.O
vB.org is owned by vBulletin Solutions/Internet Brands or no?
If yes - It most certainly SHOULD be a show site. Afterall ==> The site tagline is "The Official vBulletin Modifications Site." Perhaps it's time to change the tagline then? LOL

[Digital Jedi]

I appreciate your response, but honestly, you make it seem as if vB.org is a hobbiest property. vB.org is not a hobbiest property, it is the official mod community of the vBulletin script. As such, I believe it should be running (flaunting as it should be called) the latest, greatest version of the software.

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that the latest, greatest version of vBulletin is 3.8.7 --- vB.org is running 3.6.x ---- If I were the proud owner of the vBulletin script, I'd have done either:

1. Instead of investing huge capital in a most bogus lawsuit -- whose purpose it seems was to wear down the competition -- spend that huge capital investing into vB.org - an official representative of vBulletin, the script.

2. Lawsuit aside. Invest in your official property. I'd have placed some of my contracted developers on vB.org - tasking them with upgrading the site from head to toe.

What I wouldn't do - is continually make excuses of how great vB.org works as-is.

And to answer your question DJ - Who could make all the changes, preparing the upgrade? Well... Paid IB developers of course, because again, vB.org is not a hobbiest property. It's a property which needs investing. And though the functionality is lovely for 3.6 series, the look is old & tired. Yeah - I'd invest immediately!

Hope this makes sense. And yeah - I know - Hate to keep beating a dead horse... But sometimes a dead horse just needs to be beat or at minimum - lathered up, cleaned and prepared for viewing :P LOL

J.

Kinda of a misplaced argument, though. We can't expect the website's staff to have any control over where corporate decides to spend the money. And we are talking about a website that exists for the sole reason that none of it's content is officially supported. For all intents and purposes, this site really only exists as a courtesy left over from the old owners, and because there are those of us who still support it. I highly doubt IB considers it such a high priority that they're going to invest dollars into developers to completely rebuild a website of unsupported add-ons (a task likely comparable to building the software from scratch), go through the equally time-consuming process of fixing the bugs after the fact, (as people seem to found of pointing out vB's flaws in that regard) especially when they already have one that already works. And works really, really well. If anything, the fact that vB.org hasn't upgraded in a quite some time is a cautionary tale to admins. You make a lot of modifications to your site, and upgrading is going to be a problem. As fellow admins, we should both be intimately aware of that.

There are many kinds of websites besides hobbyist and business types. It's not either/or. vB.org working as-is is a fact, not an excuse. An excuse is something you make when you don't want to do something, but could. As I recall, the staff here isn't paid. So asking them to do something, when I'm willing to bet they've got way more pressing things to do, doesn't really need to be excused.

If there were some glaring flaw, some inexcusable errors that made using the site unbearable, or at the very least, annoying, I'd be with you. But so far the only reasons people have given for investing extra money, time and development is because of appearances. Not really a good enough excuse.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that?

What other sites do [or dont do] is up to them, and of no relevance to vbulletin.org.

if the bulk of vBulletin CUSTOMERS
Paul what has this to do with what other SITES do or do not do? I think JacquiiDesigns was talking about CUSTOMERS.
__________________

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

But honestly Paul - What do you think would happen if the bulk of vBulletin customers were to say that?

What other sites do [or dont do] is up to them, and of no relevance to vbulletin.org.


Paul what has this to do with what other SITES do or do not do? I think JacquiiDesigns was talking about CUSTOMERS.
__________________
Either way, what one site does has no bearing on what another site should or shouldn't to.

[vijayninel]

I entirely agree with what Jacquii is saying but what Paul is saying is also understandable to some extent.

The reason I agree with Paul to some extent is because there will be much work involved in upgrading this site and the benefits will not be proportional to the effort that is put in. Upgrading to 3.8.7/8 will offer just a few more features and functions. Same with 4.x. The newly un-beta'd (not gold) 5.0 is such a major downgrade in terms of features and functionality, that its not even worth considering for use over here. So a good reason for not upgrading is because there haven't been very significant improvements in the vbulletin software since 3.6.12.

That said, the site could still have been updated to newer versions, some smaller features could have been added and the dated skin could have been changed to give it a fresh look.

This need not be voluntary work by Paul, Lynne, Princeton or anyone else. As Jacquii rightly pointed out this site is the property of Internet Brands. Unfortunately they (IB) have not realized how much vbulletin.org contributes to the value of their product. A lot of people bought/buy vbulletin just because they could then extend the default functionality of their software with some of the great free mods over here. If vb.org were to disappear tomorrow then a lot of people may opt for other options or may not be willing to pay so much for a vb license.

It is in Internet Brands interest to keep vb.org in a flourishing and top shape. If they can invest so much money in questionably lawsuits against competitors then surely they can invest a fraction of that money in improving the lot of vb.org. I think Internet brands should pay admins of vb.org to upgrade and keep this site in shape. IB can also sponsor small prizes for contests and awards to coders/designers. This will give them rich rewards in the long run.

[Chris8]

I don't get it! Why you people still push this subject while it was addressed dozen of times!
The answer was always plane and simple - customizations that would require rewriting and no significant gains.
So why? Do you expect suddenly to hear some other answer like vb3 is better or something and you're trolling?
Or perhaps you want to push people who care about this board to go into vb5 minefield so you have the answers for your vb5 related questions... because I don't believe you are suddenly in the urge to upgrade your board but what I would guess is you want support so you can earn money from skins and mods you will make for vb5, is that right?
FFS leave vbulletin.org alone! :)

So... <sarcasm> What do you need? What are you missing here what has vb5 and vb3 has not? Are there any problems you struggle with the vbulletin.org functionality? Does this skin hurts your eyes or something? What is it? </sarcasm>

[Simon Lloyd]

This thread has run it's course, people are starting to get annoyed in their posts which eventually will turn in to bickering.

As has been said many times in the thread - "it's not happening" :)

[vbresults]

It's not happening. And, I've given Paul an excuse to lock this thread by posting in it. *click*

Imagine all the file edits you'd have to make...

[vijayninel]

It's not happening. And, I've given Paul an excuse to lock this thread by posting in it. *click*

Imagine all the file edits you'd have to make...

It looks more like you are pleading for the thread to be locked. I wonder why you are averse to discussion.

[vbresults]

It looks more like you are pleading for the thread to be locked. I wonder why you are averse to discussion.

It's part of a top-secret Fed plan to restart Bretton Woods. =D

[Simon Lloyd]

@vijayninel, the thread has run it's course, the topic has been beaten to death, there wont be a change as it's not needed and no amount of badgering would change it.

[doctorsexy]

Jim ll fix it..... dont panic...

[Zantox]

the thread has run it's course, the topic has been beaten to death, there wont be a change as it's not needed and no amount of badgering would change it.

Yea pretty much this