Paid Requests Simply not working

[lasto]

So what should we do until there is a feedback system?
We strongly recommend posting a follow up if you have posted a Service Request. Simply provide a follow up post with the name of the member who took the request, and if you where satisfied with the result. Please do so if you had a positive or a negative experience.

PS Long slanderous posts as a response to the Service Request will also not be allowed, so keep the feedback short and to the point please.


Its simply not working - KK people get ripped off and then reply back to the orginal thread with the name of the person who ripped them off.Is that it - they get away scottfree because i do not see anything else in place to bring these people to account.
If you get ripped off you cannot even get your money back from paypal because the other side just says they provided `Virtual Goods` and thats the end of the dispute.
We need something else - if not then paid requests should be removed till you can come up with a more sensible approach as vbulletin.org is being used to rip members off and nothing is being done to stop it.(you do say do your research but most people dont like to complain about how a transaction went and will simply forget about it - I nearly got banned before because i complained about a member who ripped me off and i would`nt let it go).
Also with the amount of complaints about this situation over the yrs you would think,you would of implemented a better Feedback solution to this but no - nothing is done yet again and every person who posts a paid request is left at the hands of all those who are there to try and rip them off.

Protect your members and show them that you will not allow this sort of behaviour to go unpunished.

Ive been ripped off twice now and im serious about jacking it all in now because it gets to the point where u cant trust no one these days.

[iogames]

Tell me about it! Months waiting for a Coder... none reliable so far :(

[Beav`]

I'm surprised this site recommends paying at least 50% deposit, and moreso that people are so prepared to pay upfront to complete strangers based on trust. I agree there should be some kind of feedback system for it though. If you provide potential scammers with a platform to rip people off, you should take an active role in making it as safe as possibe.

[Shelley_c]

Your Intentions are prity much honourable, but the way you are going about it is seriously flawed. Why is it took you till now to bring this up? I'll answer that one for you, because it's prity much obvious. You were scammed twice and you now want to see some kind of feedback system implement, a system that better protects it's members both buyers and sellers. What makes you think that other people will back you up or follow your motivation for a better system? I'll tell you, it will take them to accomodate your way of thinking when they get scammed themselves.

Jelsoft don't want a feedback system, and, they will not accomodate your request. Yeah.... they want the luxuries of a paid area but they don't want the hassle of disgruntled buyers/sellers posting negative remarks which makes this site look bad and cause them more work dealing with arguments etc. It's prity much common sense to implement a feedback system/rating system for anything paid or when hard cash is transfering between two parties, realize this, if they haven't done it now, it will never happen... and anything you say will only be ignored and (yes I'll say it again) laughed at by the powers that be.

Why have you posted this in the Community lounge? This shows that your not ready to confront the people that run this site and explain why you feel this way. It's showing that you are not being committed and standing by what you believe would be the right features to implement in such a system so buyers are aware of the sammers that prey here.

That said, I haven't been scammed but i whole heartely agree with your recommendations what needs implementing with regards to the paid area. This thread should be in the suggestions & feedback area ot here. So what if you get an infraction, if your not ready to stand by the suggestions you want to be implemented don't expect others to and I say all that with love. :)

[lasto]

Your Intentions are prity much honourable, but the way you are going about it is seriously flawed. Why is it took you till now to bring this up? I'll answer that one for you, because it's prity much obvious. You were scammed twice and you now want to see some kind of feedback system implement, a system that better protects it's members both buyers and sellers. What makes you think that other people will back you up or follow your motivation for a better system? I'll tell you, it will take them to accomodate your way of thinking when they get scammed themselves.

Jelsoft don't want a feedback system, and, they will not accomodate your request. Yeah.... they want the luxuries of a paid area but they don't want the hassle of disgruntled buyers/sellers posting negative remarks which makes this site look bad and cause them more work dealing with arguments etc. It's prity much common sense to implement a feedback system/rating system for anything paid or when hard cash is transfering between two parties, realize this, if they haven't done it now, it will never happen... and anything you say will only be ignored and (yes I'll say it again) laughed at by the powers that be.

Why have you posted this in the Community lounge? This shows that your not ready to confront the people that run this site and explain why you feel this way. It's showing that you are not being committed and standing by what you believe would be the right features to implement in such a system so buyers are aware of the sammers that prey here.

That said, I haven't been scammed but i whole heartely agree with your recommendations what needs implementing with regards to the paid area. This thread should be in the suggestions & feedback area ot here. So what if you get an infraction, if your not ready to stand by the suggestions you want to be implemented don't expect others to and I say all that with love. :)
I brought the same subject up last time when i got scammed - just do a search for my posts and u will see its all there.Ive had threads deleted or posts edited because of my views so that is the main reason ive refrained from naming names in this thread.
Also the reason ive brought this up now is because of this thread : https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=190461
If i say anything out of that thread then it will simply be removed or the thread closed.So on one hand i have a legit excuse to moan but on the other i do not have the platform to do it on.I think because they have a paid requests section on here they have to decide to stand up for their members and try to resolve any problems that may arise or remove the section till something can be put in place to accomodate both sides.
I know this board does not make any money from the paid requests section but someone certainly is and i would love to know how many people have actually been ripped off because these are not minor occurances they are happening all the time on here.

[Dean C]

Look, how hard is it to ask for references. When you got scammed did you ask for 3 references and did you follow up on those three references? I bet 99% of the people who post paid requests here don't even do that.

[Gio~Logist]

I've said this day in and day out, do your homework. Check their profiles and see what they're about, make sure they're credible. If they have a website, check that out too. Ask them for references.

We have a lot of programmers here, but it's knowing how to seperate the real from the fake. Make sure the person you hire is equipped for the job (just because someone has a "coder" title, doesn't mean they can code every aspect of a php script). Also, make sure the price is realistic. If you're getting work for a few bucks and get scammed, don't be surprised. If you get charged a ridiculous amount from someone with no background, and you get scammed.. don't be surprised.

[lasto]

Dean C and Gio-Logist - its that attitude that makes nothing change around here.
Regardless if done any background checks people will still rip people off.You can talk to someone and they can seem genuine in their commitment to do the job but when it comes to putting it into practise it falls apart at the seam.

The last person to rip me off showed me his website and jobs he had done in the past but it still never stopped him from walking away with $250 of my money.So no amount of research would of helped.

This latest transaction was by way of the pm system on here so all pms are logged but ive even reported it to the admin on here weeks ago when i was getting nowhere and still not had a reply back to this date.

One thing is for sure - if you get ripped off then you on your own.

[iogames]

I've said this day in and day out, do your homework. Check their profiles and see what they're about, make sure they're credible. If they have a website, check that out too. Ask them for references.

We have a lot of programmers here, but it's knowing how to seperate the real from the fake. Make sure the person you hire is equipped for the job (just because someone has a "coder" title, doesn't mean they can code every aspect of a php script). Also, make sure the price is realistic. If you're getting work for a few bucks and get scammed, don't be surprised. If you get charged a ridiculous amount from someone with no background, and you get scammed.. don't be surprised.

Whaaaat!?!?!

I'm still waiting on you after 4 months :mad:

[Gio~Logist]

Whaaaat!?!?!

I'm still waiting on you after 4 months :mad:

I answer several requests a day, manage support for my products, and work for a network of over 40 websites. I can assure you that if i haven't taken on your project yet, it's for the benefit of both of us. Feel free to send me over another message to remind me of the project specs and requirements so that I can try my best to take it on the second I have a chance, or refer you to someone who can take on the job atm.

[lasto]

Also what we should be looking at,is a solution to what happens after someone gets scammed and how we can stop these persons from scamming other people.
We either need a Blacklist or a simple member feedback system in place but i feel even if we had these it would not guarantee that members would still not get ripped off.
Its pretty sad when i have to go to an external site (scam.com) to do a post on someone who ripped me off on here ,over there.Because on there i can name and (hopefully) shame the person in question whereas if i do it on here,i risk getting banned myself or an infraction for simply telling the truth.

[Dean C]

Well, every time I need to outsource someone to help on a large project, I check references. I've been doing this for over 6 years and I have not been scammed once.

[lasto]

Well, every time I need to outsource someone to help on a large project, I check references. I've been doing this for over 6 years and I have not been scammed once.
well you know the saying `A fool is easy parted from his money`
Ive hired numerous coders on vbull over the years and the majority of them are straight forward and do the job - its the ones who dont that are the exception.

[Dean C]

well you know the saying `A fool is easy parted from his money`
Ive hired numerous coders on vbull over the years and the majority of them are straight forward and do the job - its the ones who dont that are the exception.

But why take the risk? It takes 10minutes to send emails to 3 references. That's 10 minutes well spent in my opinion.

[lasto]

But why take the risk? It takes 10minutes to send emails to 3 references. That's 10 minutes well spent in my opinion.
Maybe u never read my post above - i checked out the first scammer and he seemed ok.He showed me jobs he had done and even showed me his Professional website where he takes orders from.I was still ripped off.So even checking people does not mean u are 100% safe.Also many coders on here proberly cannot provide 3 refs but that dont mean they will rip u off as ive hired quite a few and besides these 2 scammers the rest where fine.
And it still not solve the problem of what we do after we have been scammed - you can sprout all day about checking people out but its to late once they got your money and wont answer your pms even when u know they are online and just ignoring you.
A feedback system is needed and that way we wont have to be Inspector Morse checking everyone out.Imagine if Ebay told its members to check other people out by asking people if they where cosher before buying off them - you`d laugh at them.They implemented a system that was fair to all users (both sides) yet for some weird reason vb.org does`nt feel inclined to want to offer one here.

[Dean C]

Then you are your own worst enemy. I have a website and I can show you work I've done. Doesn't mean I won't scam you though. I could have worked on those projects, and ripped off my clients (in theory of course).

If you can't be bothered to check references just because most of the time people AREN'T scammers, then it's your own fault you got scammed. Maybe people will see your post and try to scam you even more now, knowing that you are so naive ;)

[lasto]

Let them try because i aint hiring from here again - twice bitten twice shy.
So in theory your stance is if you cant be bothered to check people out then you deserve to be scammed ?

If you can't be bothered to check references just because most of the time people AREN'T scammers, then it's your own fault you got scammed.

you see i see it differently - if vb.org implemented a simple system that would allow members to leave feedback,and members checked that when looking for a new coder then half of these problems would be solved,but they wont implement it,yet they provide the actual platform for these scammers to operate.

[Dean C]

Let them try because i aint hiring from here again - twice bitten twice shy.
So in theory your stance is if you cant be bothered to check people out then you deserve to be scammed ?



you see i see it differently - if vb.org implemented a simple system that would allow members to leave feedback,and members checked that when looking for a new coder then half of these problems would be solved,but they wont implement it,yet they provide the actual platform for these scammers to operate.

Yes, if you don't do your homework, you should expect to have trouble.

And we've had the whole feedback system discussion many times. The outcome is that it's very very easy to leave fake feedback. I know many many people on this site, and I could politely ask them to leave me positive feedback in my profile. I could also go around quietly, and discretely paying people to do it. Also feedback isn't a reference. If you properly check up on a reference you can ask all kinds of questions, you can't do that when just reading feedback.

[Princeton]

Let them try because i aint hiring from here again - twice bitten twice shy.
Why even bother posting the thread..

Yes, if you don't do your homework, you should expect to have trouble.

sadly but true...

And we've had the whole feedback system discussion many times. The outcome is that it's very very easy to leave fake feedback. I know many many people on this site, and I could politely ask them to leave me positive feedback in my profile. I could also go around quietly, and discretely paying people to do it. Also feedback isn't a reference. If you properly check up on a reference you can ask all kinds of questions, you can't do that when just reading feedback.

on target...

-------

if a feedback system was the answer - then one would have been added

I, as well as many people, believe that a feedback system will not solve any problems - in fact, it may create new problems.

As developers, we are here to find solutions to problems NOT create new problems.

With that said, our focus here is on learning and sharing. This is not a "marketplace" nor will it ever become one.

[lasto]

Why even bother posting the thread..

.so other people know that this board is full of spammers.Also not exactly a good reply esp since its coming from an admin of this board.
You simply wont do anything will you - dont want to rock the boat as they say.I have posted who ripped me off in my paid request thread so as an admin can you tell me what action you will take ???

[Shelley_c]

Why even bother posting the thread..



People need to know who the scammers are. What's so hard to understand about that. A feedback system/rating system is a viable anwser. This alone gives the foundation in knowing who has had positive and negative ratings. You can write articles till your little heart is content but this will not tell you who are the scammers who prey on the vulnerable.

You telling us now you know more than ebay, amazon etc who have a rating/feedback system in place? That's no way to act towards a member who is suggesting in bettering this site and giving valid information in the improvement of the paid request area.

I assume talking to customers like this is welcomed so let me ask you what are you doing here? BTW, your signature breaks forum rules princeton that's more than 3 lines.

[Gio~Logist]

In response to Princeton
I'ma make a call to Ebay and let them know that they're feedback system is completely pointless.

Sense the sarcasm? Seriously... And don't flame me for this post. I'm just searching for an answer as to how you can rationalize something being better than nothing in any way shape or form?

[Dean C]

People need to know who the scammers are. What's so hard to understand about that. A feedback system/rating system is a viable anwser. This alone gives the foundation in knowing who has had positive and negative ratings. You can write articles till your little heart is content but this will not tell you who are the scammers who prey on the vulnerable.

You telling us now you know more than ebay, amazon etc who have a rating/feedback system in place? That's no way to act towards a member who is suggesting in bettering this site and giving valid information in the improvement of the paid request area.

I assume talking to customers like this is welcomed so let me ask you what are you doing here? BTW, your signature breaks forum rules princeton that's more than 3 lines.

How would you like it if I sent in your nickname and email as a scammer, and it was published for all to see? The system is open to abuse.

[Shelley_c]

Like everything, it's open to abuse. Take the default vbulletin rating system... this is prone to abuse and i'm guessing it has been from the moment it was enable here. How many mods,image sets & other submissions on this forum have had suspect ratings/installs etc applied to them?

Like I stated, lmost everything and all things that are ever implemented here are open to abuse, it doesn't mean you just don't try to find ways of lowering how a system can be abused. Obviously, precautions, planning and let's throw an ounce of willingness in creating a system that is both beneficial to both buyers/sellers not forgetting consequences if the system is somehow abuse.

[Dean C]

There is a big difference between having a low rating on your modification, and having your reputation tarnished by false claims that you are a scammer.

[Shelley_c]

Try reading the full post dean. Don't just read what you want to read and answer what you want to answer. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, nor have the scammed of the damned have money to lose. Maybe you have, and it's all come easy for you but this is the real world and people here are being scammed left right and center and work a little harder for their hard earned cash.

To state the obvious, it's easy for you to judge people but you have left many of my "common sense" suggestions unanswered. Implementing a system isn't going to be easy, I never said it would. where would the fun be in creating something that comes all too easy hey? solutions, find a solution and your half way there.

[lasto]

yep any system would be open to abuse but i would`nt expect a name to be added to a scammers list unless proof was provided - do u think we that daft.
You seem to be arguing the point about false claims but what about legit claims ?
Scammers get away with the crap they pull on this board for one simple reason : Because we cant even agree on a suitable sytem to combat them so they know theres nothing we can do.

[Netunt]

Sorry if someone has posted this already. I know this is probably not feasible but couldn't vBulletin.org act as a middle man?

Person wanting code give money to vBulletin.org

Coder makes mod and gives mod to vBulletin.org

vBulletin.org gives them out.

[smacklan]

This is not a "marketplace" nor will it ever become one.
This is the bottom line folks. Really, the Paid Services section needs to be closed Princeton ;)

[Shelley_c]

Totally agree with you on that one john the paid areas does need closing. It's not like the good ole days when you could leave your door open without "mr sticky fingers" going for the grab and run aka run & grab by mr tickle from the mr men book series. Paid areas should be left for the professionals to run, simply not amateurs that lack both the experience and the motivation in dealing with issues when they arise.

Whenever there has been an instance of someone being scammed this needs to be delt with esp by the people who run and maintain the forum. But when there is a vast amount of scamming happening and it's not being delt with by introducing and implementing the right system then something has to give.


It's alright people jumping in saying "you should have done this" or "you deserve it for not reading or doing your homework" but untill it happens to them they can't really pass judgement.

Anyway, just my 2 pence worth. :rolleyes:

[Paul M]

Ah well, since this has turned into another thread for the same old people to go site/staff bashing, thread closed.