Modification Graveyard issue...

[Ohiosweetheart]

This may have been asked before, but I can't find it so I'm asking again.

When a mod release is moved to the modification graveyard, there is no notice to those who have downloaded it as to why. We can't even ask why, on the thread.

I have two mods from Boofo that were moved there very recently and I'd like to know why. Specifically, if there are security issues, or server load issues, or the author asked that it be moved, I'd like to know.

It can't be that hard to make a brief post at the end of that thread, can it? All I see is a bold "this thread has been moved to the modification graveyard". Well no dang duh. But why?

[King Kovifor]

If there is a security issue, the users are notified most of the time (I also believe the This Modification is Now In the Grave Yard is in a different color, but don't quote me on that one). But, I can say (as the one to remove Boofo's mods) that the ones in question were removed because of having no files.

[Ohiosweetheart]

but - I downloaded his mods. There were files on them as late as a week ago. I still have them stored on my computer.

[Dismounted]

That's because Boofo himself removed the files.

[Ohiosweetheart]

Ok that would explain why he hasn't answered my pm.
Things get so weird around here, lol.

Thanks y'all.

I still think it's a good idea to post some kind of a brief explanation as to why a mod is moved to the graveyard.

[nexialys]

There is no security risks or malfunctions in Boofo's hacks, you can continue to have them on your forum... he removed all his work in a single move last week for personal reasons... no relation with his codes...

and yes, i suppose it would be good to have a memo sent to people who clicked "installed" when something like this occurs.. but it's the coder's responsability to post a release update when they do...

[Mark.B]

I'm speculating here, but Boofo had an issue last week with someone that he claimed had stolen and released one of his hacks. He asked in the thread for that hack to be removed, but it wasn't, (I think the author was disputing the stolen claim) and now he's removed all his files and his avatar is gone, so I think we can put two and two together from that.

A great shame.

[nexialys]

you are speculating, but you are right for 10% of the reasons... i don't think people need to know why Boofo removed his work.

now that an reason was given, i suggest this thread be closed.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Let me clear 1 thing up:

If a modification is in the Graveyard, then it has been deleted. Reasons for deletion can be:
- Author requested removal
- Author did not attach files or removed them
- Copyright issues
- Not according to the rules

The reason why it has been removed is something between the author and staff. Knowing the reason only would be to answer the curisosity of other users.

If there is a potential vulnerability discovered in a modification, then it is moved to a Quarantine forum and all members that have marked it as installed will receive a notification of the reason for quarantining the modification. The author will be given the details of the potential exploit so he can fix them. Once the issue is resolved, the modification is made available to public again and all members that had it marked as installed are notified about the update.

[PoetJA-1975]

OK - That's nice to know, as I too have installed a few Boofo modifications. So glad to know there's no security flaws or potential exploits, etcetera... But I will also say - vBulletin.org is a place where the majority of us are trying to improve our vBulletin forums. For a coder to go around crying because someone has used some bit of code that is freely shared here anyway is 1. RIDICULOUS, 2. A CRYING SHAME, and 3. A BIT CHILDISH.

Jacquii.

[PaulSonny]

I disagree Jacquii. Most coders (including myself) put alot of time and effort into writing code and it really annoys me when others copy my code.

Can you imagine if you wrote a lovely poem and then someone else claimed it was theirs? You'd be pretty upset right?

Thanks, Paul.

[blind-eddie]

But I will also say - vBulletin.org is a place where the majority of us are trying to improve our vBulletin forums. For a coder to go around crying because someone has used some bit of code that is freely shared here anyway is 1. RIDICULOUS, 2. A CRYING SHAME, and 3. A BIT CHILDISH.

Jacquii.


I am not a coder. But I have seen this here many times. I could not have said it better.

[noppid]

What's so funny is that a lot of the code that people claim to own around here was recycled vBulletin code to begin with.

I don't like having work ripped off in it's whole, but come on, a few lines of code that help a guy get a leg up should be ok. I mean the url does end in .org and there are no paid hacks allowed. These hacks are after all free, right?

To hear things like copyright being enforced arbitrarily without a even so much as an arbitration that both parties participate in, let alone a trial, if a farce.

I got slapped for using one darn line of code once and stopped contributing for years as a result. I came back to look around, shared some code and checked the reusable box so that that don't happen to someone else.

But not much has changed it seems.

If you want to own code, own it and control it. Don't throw it up as a free download. That way you won't be unhappy and some fledgling coder won't be embarrassed for using a piece of that code that he found in your work. God forbid we let someone learn something from us.

There's a lot of work here that should be respected, but there is a lot to be learned here as well. That is what I thought the point of the place was, learning. Let's not sniffle that and have a clique of code enforces looking to see who used one line of code from someone else.

Open up your mind and open up that free code.

[King Kovifor]

What's so funny is that a lot of the code that people claim to own around here was recycled vBulletin code to begin with.

I don't like having work ripped off in it's whole, but come on, a few lines of code that help a guy get a leg up should be ok. I mean the url does end in .org and there are no paid hacks allowed. These hacks are after all free, right?

To hear things like copyright being enforced arbitrarily without a even so much as an arbitration that both parties participate in, let alone a trial, if a farce.

I got slapped for using one darn line of code once and stopped contributing for years as a result. I came back to look around, shared some code and checked the reusable box so that that don't happen to someone else.

But not much has changed it seems.

If you want to own code, own it and control it. Don't throw it up as a free download. That way you won't be unhappy and some fledgling coder won't be embarrassed for using a piece of that code that he found in your work. God forbid we let someone learn something from us.

There's a lot of work here that should be respected, but there is a lot to be learned here as well. That is what I thought the point of the place was, learning. Let's not sniffle that and have a clique of code enforces looking to see who used one line of code from someone else.

Open up your mind and open up that free code.

All reports are investigated before action is taken.

[noppid]

But under what authority do you operate? He said, she said?

That's the arbitrary part. Joe says so and you enforce it? That's just silly. That's where the clique mentality has room to blur discretion.

But hey, I'm not here to argue. My opinion is different and I won't change your mind.

Peace.

[King Kovifor]

We delve into the code for almost all investgations.

[PaulSonny]

I agree to a certain degree, if you click the re-usable checkbox then thats fine. If you don't then I dont think its fairs.

Thanks, Paul.

[PoetJA-1975]

I disagree Jacquii. Most coders (including myself) put alot of time and effort into writing code and it really annoys me when others copy my code.

Can you imagine if you wrote a lovely poem and then someone else claimed it was theirs? You'd be pretty upset right?

Thanks, Paul.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

Beauty for some provides escape, Who gain their happiness from eyeing
The gorgeous buttocks of an ape Or autumn sunsets exquisitely dying.

Wonderful lines - I wish I could claim them for my own... Alas - I didn't write them. But what if I were to write:

Beauty for most has mirrored escape, To luxury and happiness undying
For few who've spied beautimous ape Or snatched his banana whilst spying.

Are you gonna sue me for using the words "beauty", "escape" & "ape"

Better yet - what if I write 2a + 4 = 10 --- And someone has used that same equation in their Basic Algebra for Idiots book - page 7.... Of course "a" is 3 LOL - But should I be sued because I put the same equation on page 8 of my Basically, Algebra's For Idiots book.

There's a distinct difference between completely plagiarising someone's intellectual property and calling it your own and using a bit of code that has been around for ages and reworking it so that it's your own.

Oh - wait a second.... We're talking about temperamental coders. Hmmm - Thank GAWD there's no temperamental creative people walking around :rolleyes: LOL

Jacquii.

[RLShare]

Jaquii why even bother downloading hacks if what coders write here are 'bits of code that have been around for ages'? I mean if what the coders here do is so trivial in your eyes then why the hell are you not doing it yourself without the use of anyone elses code. The fact is if it was as trivial as you try to make it seem then people would not need to use code from other peoples hacks to complete their own. The fact that they are using other peoples code points to the complete opposite of what you are trying to portray.

[PoetJA-1975]

How dare you - you don't know me - If you've seen any of the posts I've ever made to Coders who have so generously shared their modifications at vB.org and beyond - you would take that sordid little tone out of your mouth and toss it to the wastebasket.

What I am trying to say is that it's ridiculous for some pompous idiot to throw a +++++ fit because someone has used a piece of code that noone has set claim to.

If you don't understand that - then there is something very wrong with you.

Jacquii.

ps - don't put words in my mouth either - I never even insinuated the sharing from various coders as anything trivial - quite the opposite really. ALSO - before you attempt to read me for filth again - please spell my name correctly. :D

[tazzarkin]

I am not a coder. But I have seen this here many times. I could not have said it better.

-------------------------------------

Yes, this does seem to happen many times, even for mods that you pay for. For example, I've purchased several mods over the last four months, only to have the coder get upset, remove their code, shut down their web site, and then disappear for some strange reason.

In Boofo's case, he was offering his code for free (which was very noble of him) and then chose to remove it for personal reasons. Some of his mods were nice, so it's sad to see him go. For whatever reason, he decided to go and he has that right.

But there are some other mods in the modification graveyard from other authors who sold their code (such as vbulletinfreelancers), promised year-long support, and then disappeared a month later. It seems it was due to the author feeling offended by something someone posted. So she removed her code and disappeared, along with her web site and the mods people paid for. Those are the coders that really hurt the vbulletin community.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen that happen as well.

Added Note: Along with the responsibility, it takes a thick skin to be a coder. They have to be prepared to have people be critical of their work sometimes. Personally, I am always supportive of any coder, and encourage people as much as I can. It's the mods that make people want to buy vbulletin, so with every coder that vb.org loses (for whatever reason), it's a huge loss to the community.

[Paul M]

We delve into the code for almost all investgations.
Ae always look at the code when someone says its been copied. We also look at where the original code may have come from, and also consider how many ways something may actually have been done. Its perfectly possible for two people to do the same thing the same way, without one copying the other.

[tazzarkin]

A little off-topic, but...

So many mods go to the modification graveyard these days, either because of security vulnerabilities or an author being moody, that you better download a mod the first time it's released because you may never see it again.

It's a little paranoid to think of it that way, but who knows when the author will get moody, decide to leave, and take their mods off-line.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

It is always good practise to keep a local copy of modifications you use on your board. This is also 1 of the reasons why we require modifications to be uploaded as files, so it is easier to keep a local copy.

[RLShare]

Everything in your last post was passing judgement on coders as if their hours worth of work being stolen can be equated to someone using the same words that have been used in a poem before. That is making it seem as if what they do is trivial and its disgusting for you to even insinuate. If they release the code and do not mark it as reusable, that is them staking claim to the code and if you are too ignorant to realize that then you have no business using any mod created by the same coders you are trivializing. You seriously disgust me.

How dare you - you don't know me - If you've seen any of the posts I've ever made to Coders who have so generously shared their modifications at vB.org and beyond - you would take that sordid little tone out of your mouth and toss it to the wastebasket.

What I am trying to say is that it's ridiculous for some pompous idiot to throw a +++++ fit because someone has used a piece of code that noone has set claim to.

If you don't understand that - then there is something very wrong with you.

Jacquii.

ps - don't put words in my mouth either - I never even insinuated the sharing from various coders as anything trivial - quite the opposite really. ALSO - before you attempt to read me for filth again - please spell my name correctly. :D

[davidw]

Please keep this civil. Also, please refer to Rules #3 and #4 (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php?do=rules) before any more comments are made toward each other.

[Ohiosweetheart]

WOW ok, this thread has gone way off-topic from the question I originally asked. The name-calling is certainly uncalled for.

The coder that I referred to - Boofo - is NOT a pompous idiot, and as far as I know, did not throw a +++++ fit. He simply, quietly, pulled his hacks. I've since talked to him on IM, and all is fine.

[RLShare]

JACQUII, I have some questions. If someone writes a short story, and posts it online for others to enjoy to do you believe that everyone should have the right to take paragraphs of it and use it in their own works just because it was released freely for people to enjoy? And if you do not why would not equate the same logic to coders? Do you seriously think that low of coders that they do not deserve the same rights as a writer posting stories?

Your analogy should have been more along the lines of someone stealing chapters from a novel or paragraphs from an essay. Re-read your own post, can you honestly tell me that equating mere words to the work of coders is not degrading and trivializing of the work they supply for free.

[Stingray27]

The coder that I referred to - Boofo - is NOT a pompous idiot, and as far as I know, did not throw a +++++ fit. He simply, quietly, pulled his hacks.
It doesnt really matter whether he pulled them quietly, or loudly. Point is he pulled them.

Can he honestly say he wrote every single line of them, with no help from anyone, nor the odd line copied from other peoples work. I think not.

[Ohiosweetheart]

I have no idea. Point is, he released them, they were his to pull, and he did.

[tazzarkin]

Actually, a lot of famous writers have taken ideas from great stories, even paraphrased stories in different forms. I couldn't tell you how many people have taken stories from the bible and turned them into great novels. It even extends to movies, I've heard that Spielberg got his best ideas for Star Wars from the Seven Samurai. If you really want to be precise, almost no idea is truly original. Even the great writers learn by mimicking their favorite authors.

Now, I'm all for copyrighting your work and against plagiarism in all forms, but to say any idea is truly original is ridiculous. Also, in vbulletin, there are only certain ways to do things. There are no programming guides available to teach people how to program here, so the only way to learn is from other programmers. You can't re-invent the wheel everytime.

Now if one person makes a video mod, and then someone else makes a video mod and steals large chunks of code, then it's plagiarism. That's blatant.

But here's my question... If someone has a video mod and has code that reads from the database, and you copy it for a menu mod that has no relation to video (and this is possible), how do you determine if it is plagiarism?

It's so hard because there are only so many ways to do things in vbulletin. Unless it is blatant, I don't see how you can make a distinction.
----------------------
JACQUII, I have some questions. If someone writes a short story, and posts it online for others to enjoy to do you believe that everyone should have the right to take paragraphs of it and use it in their own works just because it was released freely for people to enjoy? And if you do not why would not equate the same logic to coders? Do you seriously think that low of coders that they do not deserve the same rights as a writer posting stories?

Your analogy should have been more along the lines of someone stealing chapters from a novel or paragraphs from an essay. Re-read your own post, can you honestly tell me that equating mere words to the work of coders is not degrading and trivializing of the work they supply for free.

[PoetJA-1975]

Ah! No use arguing - Old people are stuck in their old ways. It's been said that some can code and come up with completely the very same coding without having seen what the other has done.

The point of this thread was to ask - why some Coder pulled all of his modifications. It's obvious the reason the modifications where pulled is because he felt someone had "stolen" his code and reused it in a modification. For all of you who think the analogy I made was a bit harsh - WHATEVER -- Perhaps it's too much of a deep concept for your to grasp, or maybe you just refuse to understand because you don't want to fill like your opinion is wrong. I dare say the majority of people here at vBulletin.org would agree with my analogy.

For those of you who feel that I have insinuated the wonderful sharing that goes on within the vBulletin Community is "trivial" --- WHATEVER - Search the threads and see that I have been most grateful for the sharing. And generally have even helped others to solve issues they may have with a particular modification. My motto is share and share alike - I'm always happy to help whenever I can.

For the Bighead who thinks I'm "disgusting" - Die why don't ya! I don't give a damn about what you think of me - You're an idiot and obviously you cannot possibly wrap your little head around the concept that I have espoused in this thread. Again- you try to put words in my mouth. Please don't do that. You take offense? Perhaps you should pull your trivial little Blue Gloss style or your pitiful little Watermark Images hack from vBulletin.org, the whole while throwing a little 2-year-old tantrum because some Member of vBulletin.org thinks you're ridiculous.... You find that funny do you? The 2-year-old tantrum bit? Happy to make you smile then - idiot! Grow up.

And sorry MS OHIOSWEETHEART - Boofo DEFINITELY pulled a female dog fit by pulling ALL of his modifications (3.6 - 3.7) off of vBulletin.org. It WAS a childish, snobbish & ultimately uncaring thing to do. Do you think he gave a damn about the people who had downloaded his stuff? NO! And in my opinion, that just goes to say that he didn't really care about sharing his stuff with the vBulletin Community ANYWAY. It was interesting to note in most of his threads, the code he used in his modifications.... Well - he'd always thanked someone for helping him originate the modification. That is to say - the code he used was not even 100% HIS OWN.

In closing - I will simply say AGAIN - vBulletin.org is a Community of sharing. WTF some temperamental Coder would go through the D-R-A-M-A .... Ah - forget it....

Jacquii.

--------------- Added 1215990248 at 1215990248 ---------------

Actually, a lot of famous writers have taken ideas from great stories, even paraphrased stories in different forms. I couldn't tell you how many people have taken stories from the bible and turned them into great novels. It even extends to movies, I've heard that Spielberg got his best ideas for Star Wars from the Seven Samurai. If you really want to be precise, almost no idea is truly original. Even the great writers learn by mimicking their favorite authors.

Now, I'm all for copyrighting your work and against plagiarism in all forms, but to say any idea is truly original is ridiculous. Also, in vbulletin, there are only certain ways to do things. There are no programming guides available to teach people how to program here, so the only way to learn is from other programmers. You can't re-invent the wheel everytime.

Now if one person makes a video mod, and then someone else makes a video mod and steals large chunks of code, then it's plagiarism. That's blatant.

But here's my question... If someone has a video mod and has code that reads from the database, and you copy it for a menu mod that has no relation to video (and this is possible), how do you determine if it is plagiarism?

It's so hard because there are only so many ways to do things in vbulletin. Unless it is blatant, I don't see how you can make a distinction.
----------------------

I agree. And the one thing I've said about Boofo pulling his mods - vBulletin is a Community of SHARING. When he took EVERY SINGLE ONE of his 3.6, 3.7 mods down - He spit in the face of the very concept vBulletin.org represents. This is truth, nothing more - nothing less.

JAcquii.

[Paul M]

OK, I think thats enough for now. Closed.