Some site is ripping products off from here

[Viper007Bond]

Mine for example: http://<<Link Removed>>/f12/embed-xhtml-valid-youtube-google-video-284.html

Can you guys block them from the RSS feed or something? Rather annoying that they're doing that. :(

[nexialys]

nobody here will be able to do anything.

if they ripped your style and content, it's all up to you and yourself alone to protect your ownership... vBulletin does not protect anything on your site.

[KURTZ]

and what about the modifications that are included in this site? you know that if you wanna download/use some hacks from vb.org you must have a valid license otherwise you cannot view/download any file attached ... BUT if you've a license you can download all the hacks and put them onto your site ... and maybe your site can be a 'pirate site' ...

[Marco van Herwaarden]

RSS feeds do not contain modifications. They see the same content as a regular guest.

[KURTZ]

i know Marco, my question is different, i can download all the things from this site and post them into mine ... i mean this :)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Sorry my answer was not directed towards you, but to the topic starter.

[KURTZ]

:)

but what about my question?

[nexialys]

as we usually say KURTZ, start your own topic if you have specific questions... you spoil this OP request...

[KURTZ]

you're right Nexialys, but i don't wanna spam into this area ... i only asked a legitimate question if someone want/can answer me is better, otherwise is the same ... :)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

And your question is?

[KURTZ]

check post #3, i hope that my point is clear :)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

I still fail to see the question in that post.

[KURTZ]

OK let me explain better (i try cause i don't speak english correctly):

we all know that if we wanna download/use some hacks from this site we must have a current and valid vB license from Jelsoft otherwise we can't view anything ... so if we own this (i mean the license) we can register here and use this forum ... obviously we can download all the things that are posted here, but after that we can upload the hacks that we have downloaded from here in other sites ... now it's the point that i wanna ask to you Marco :), we can upload the 'vB.org's hacks' onto other sites, but these site that i mean don't request us any valid and current license by Jelsoft so we can bypass the license and use all the hacks that are posted here without any license ...

so the question is: is legally correct (i mean without legal troubles) reproduce the hacks from vB.org to another site? the copyrights are owned by the authors or also by the web site that host these files?

hope you can understand what i mean and what i ask to you :)

[Guest190829]

A modification author can post his modification wherever he pleases, he owns the copyright. A user can not download a modification here and then redistribute it elsewhere on the internet without the Author's direct permission - that is illegal.

[KURTZ]

thx Danny that's what i wanna know, but what i previously know is this: 'if we haven't any specific or direct deny' to redistribute we can use anything the only thing that's required is 'specify' the name of the author ...

anyway thx

[Marco van Herwaarden]

'if we haven't any specific or direct deny' to redistribute we can use anything the only thing that's required is 'specify' the name of the author ...
This would be wrong.

You can not redistribute any modification unless you have permission from the author.

[Boofo]

But isn't it left up to the author to go after the sites that have their files illegally?

[KURTZ]

unfortunately i'm not a lawyer and also i can't explain better my thoughts about this ... however i tried to read the creative commons license, and it says that if an author don't tell what are the restrictions there aren't restrictions ... also i think that if there are some limitations the authors can be legally responsible if something goes wrong (if we use something from them) ...

i know it's a complex issue :)

[nexialys]

the problem Kurtz is that vb.org is not ruled under the Creative Commons... there is a copyright in the footer of this site....

[KURTZ]

yes Nexia, but the rights about the hacks that are posted here are owned by the authors ... not by vB.org ... that's what Danny told us ...

edit: so if i post here something without the clear permission by the original author, Marco (or someone) deletes my post/files, but the question is the opposite ...

[nexialys]

actually, having your stuff here is a privilege, not a right, so the owners of THIS site can trash your work if they consider it is not following rules...

[KURTZ]

actually, having your stuff here is a privilege, not a right, so the owners of THIS site can trash your work if they consider it is not following rules...

yes i definitely agreed with this, any home's owner can rule like he wants in his home ... :) but the point is another, if we can redistribute anything from this site (i mean the hacks from third part - the users - NOT directly from the owners of the staff of vB.org) :) and, if yes, what are the legal restrictions ...

[Paul M]

You cannot redistribute anything from this site without the authors permission - thats already been stated once. :)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Seems you still don't get the point: Any original work is automatically copyrighted, unless stated different by the author. You can (are not allowed to) not redistribute the work without permission from the original author. It makes no difference if the author is a staff member on vB.org.

Work released on vB.org is always copyrighted to the author, never to "vBulletin.org".

edit: so if i post here something without the clear permission by the original author, Marco (or someone) deletes my post/files, but the question is the opposite ...If we become aware that someone is posting the work of others without prior permission from the original author then he will most likely get an infraction and the release is removed.

[Guest190829]

Just to clarify - even if you do mention the author's name, that's not enough to warrant permission to redistribute. You need specific permission from the author to redistribute...(and that is with any copyrighted work.)

Edit: Didn't see the all of these replies basically saying what I did.

[Boofo]

What remedy do we, as authors, have when someone takes our hacks from here and posts them on another site?

[nexialys]

actually, a good technique is to go to that site and ask POLITELY to remove the release... i've done it at some occasions on pirate websites and they gladly answer to our requests... when you go directly to threaten them, they laugh at you, because you act the opposite way of a politically correct guy... but being polite, human and professional makes you having a good positive answer from them in most of the situations...

[Boofo]

I've tried the polite route and gotten laughed at and ignored all the same. The point I was trying to make is no matter what the rules are here concerning the copyright issue, it doesn't carry on outside the org, that I know of, anyway. If they get it from here and post it, will the org go after them?

[nexialys]

they can't sue the borrower, if it's your question... we do not pay any protection police here... they are not hired by us to protect our stuff... (that's manly why i do not release here anyway.)

[Boofo]

Then there is no real protection or copyright in the long run.

[Guest210212002]

actually, having your stuff here is a privilege, not a right, so the owners of THIS site can trash your work if they consider it is not following rules...

I do not agree. This site is privileged to have a community that contributes to it, it's not the other way around. Without the members, vb.org is useless.

--------------- Added 1212440866 at 1212440866 ---------------

Then there is no real protection or copyright in the long run.

Correct.

[nexialys]

any copyright statement is just a statement... to apply it to your goods, you have to have an advocate representing you to the court... so you have to pay for this representation. Jelsoft is paying their own lawyer for their own script, but they will never pay for the scripts released here for one reason... we are not part of Jelsoft...

and this is correct.

[smacklan]

Send their host a DMCA...it works sometimes ;)

[Boofo]

Then why even bother having any copyright rules here if they can't be enforced when the hacks are taken from here in the first place? The author has no real protection from anything.

[Paul M]

Copyright is law.

[Attilitus]

Copyright is law.

Which brings our conversation one philosophical leap deeper into the Rabbit hole...

[nexialys]

Copyright is law.
sorry but it's not ... copyright is a statement. a law is enforced by the government. if the copyright would be a law, we would have a council at the government which would protect all authors from theifs.. that is not the case... you have to represent yourself in any case, not the government.

i know you are talking about the laws that are supposed to protect the authors with copyrights, but they are written to make everything not-protected by the government... there is only a few countries where the authors are protected by the government, and they are places where piracy is so limited it's useless to enforce the laws... (Bengladesh is one of those)

[Boofo]

Law or not, it doesn't help us as authors if someone puts the hacks on another site and we can't afford to go after them. Especially is they got the hacks from here where we are supposed to be protected.

[Brad]

Copyright is law.
Unless you're in Afghanistan of course.

There is also the issue of my copyrights not begin upheld in some country half-way around the world. I can't speak Russian so how the heck am I supposed to report it anyway? ;)

Friendly advice: If you don't want your work on random servers on the internet do not publish it anywhere. Otherwise you have a 99.9% chance of begin disappointed and angry at your fellow man.

[Boofo]

Noted, for future hacks I won't be releasing here then. ;)

[Brandon Sheley]

I do not agree. This site is privileged to have a community that contributes to it, it's not the other way around. Without the members, vb.org is useless.


Good argument, but without the owners to pay the hosting and think of the site, the members wouldn't be in the equation


Noted, for future hacks I won't be releasing here then. ;)

:( You'll have to let us know where you do release them then ;) or at least me :D

[Boofo]

If I don't release them here, I won't release them anywhere as the same thing could happen wherever you release them. But, no biggie, there are plenty of others here that do a lot better than I do. ;)

[KURTZ]

I do not agree. This site is privileged to have a community that contributes to it, it's not the other way around. Without the members, vb.org is useless.


totally agreed with this :)

however what Bobby said is simply what i wanna say ... thx Bob for translating my thoughts :D

Send their host a DMCA...it works sometimes

correct, just sometimes with huge difficulty ....

PS. pls Nexia post the url where you put you hacks :D

[Boofo]

however what Bobby said is simply what i wanna say ... thx Bob for translating my thoughts :D

Which part? The one about others here that do a lot better than I do? ;)

[KURTZ]

Which part? The one about others here that do a lot better than I do? ;)

yes Bobby, exactly this ... :D

[Boofo]

Well, you are now off the Christmas card list.

[KURTZ]

:( no Bobby you give me a great paint when you say this ... :(

[Paul M]

Law or not, it doesn't help us as authors if someone puts the hacks on another site and we can't afford to go after them. Especially is they got the hacks from here where we are supposed to be protected.
You are not "supposed to be protected" at all. Never has vb.org said that it will protect you from copyright theft elsewhere on the internet, that would be impossible to do. We cannot control what people do with mods they legally download from here. As a previous staff member you are quite well aware of this, so why moan about it now.

[Boofo]

First of all, the "moan" remark was uncalled for. You as staff should know the difference between a discussion and someone moaning. If not, let me know and I will explain it to you. The point I was trying to make is that any copyrights laws that the org supposedly has are useless since the hacks can be downloaded and put up elsewhere.

[Guest210212002]

, so why moan about it now.

You've got to be kidding me.

[nexialys]

i heard Boofo moan one day... was not fun to hear... look at his avatar and think of it...

[Boofo]

But I was moaning about you nex, remember?

And Chris has been added to my Christmas card list not once, but twice! ;)

[KURTZ]

damn Chris got mine card ... :S

[Guest190829]

The point I was trying to make is that any copyrights laws that the org supposedly has are useless since the hacks can be downloaded and put up elsewhere.

We don't have any copyright laws.

vBulletin.org - that means locally on our site, adhere to copyright laws. That means we respect the copyright of modifications on vBulletin.org (eg. the content we do have control over). Anything beyond this site is out of our control - if that was your point, then yes you are right, but this is not vBulletin.org's problem - it's a consequence of distributing any work, anywhere.

No where does it state vBulletin.org has any "copyright laws" that will shield authors from the consequences of the internet and copyright breaching.

We're not copyright lawyers, we're forum administrators just like you. :)

[legionofangels]

There is no protection, there never has been.

Nexialys, the copyright in the footer is for vbulletin.org's own created design, graphics, layout, materials, products, etc. NOT members of the community as the author is the original owner, not vbulletin.org. That's why if vbulletin or jelsoft itself ever wanted a mod/add on from here, they would have to buy it from the original coder, or code there own to be different as well or they could be sued. Think of it like Patents, and the similarities. I knew of an Awning company that was in a lawsuit with another company from Europe because the engineering of something was so similar, it's like...give me a break, but the American one was made before the Europe one, and the Europe company took the American one to court. Weird...

Anyways, there should be an added profile field to all mods, asking what license type the author is applying to the released material. That way there is no confusion later on if someone takes this to the logical extreme of suing another individual here for pirating code/designs.

There's nothing left to talk about.

Boofo, hope your not a Bears fan, VIKINGS FOREVER!

[Boofo]

Nope, Dallas Cowboys fan. ;)

[iogames]

???
well... what about 'ENFORCING THE LAW' :mad:

[King Kovifor]

???
well... what about 'ENFORCING THE LAW' :mad:

vBulletin.org doesn't have the time or money to track these sites down and shut them down. It is mainly up to the owner to do this (and if it is a vBulletin site, report them to Piracy).

[nexialys]

the only people who can officially freely enforce the law is the government of your country...

[smacklan]

I prefer to relax and not worry about it...it's like death and taxes, being ripped off is inevitable and a fact of life. However, if you prefer to spend all your time chasing after these thieves only to find they are on a Malaysian server with a Dutch registrar or some crap like that, have at it :\

[khb1st]

there are small things that most of you genius coders can do, and first of all is ask for some co-operation from the vbulletin coders

it would be easy enough to implement that all hacks downloaded here, get "married " to the downloaders' account , his own unique bought , paid for, and tracked license

any hack that is done in this way can then be traced , unless modded by some other hacker to remove licensing, but that then becomes illegal, and enforceable, and not something most would allow

furthermore, there can be coding written directly into mods that become dated, and must be updated regularly (even automatically) through licensed portals, a little more work, but this will make it less tempting to distribute and re-distribute other peoples work

just one added note, most of the remarks here sound so innocent as though nobody has ever plagiarized or used copywritten material before, without permission.

I wonder how many here have "tested" software that wasn't received through the proper channels....hehe..ahem

let's be realistic, there is no way to ensure 100% un hackable softwares, it just doesn't exist, so to the coders, I wish that you realize that the more popular you become, and the more sought your product becomes, the more it will be illegally distributed....take it as a compliment that you're doing something right :p

[Boofo]

let's be realistic, there is no way to ensure 100% un hackable softwares, it just doesn't exist, so to the coders, I wish that you realize that the more popular you become, and the more sought your product becomes, the more it will be illegally distributed....take it as a compliment that you're doing something right :p

Whew! I'm safe then. I was worried for nothing it seems.

[nexialys]

I wish that you realize that the more popular you become, and the more sought your product becomes, the more it will be illegally distributed....take it as a compliment that you're doing something right :p

Cool, that means i'm completely useless here... none of my hacks was illegally distributed... the only guys who duplicated my work are from Jelsoft.. lol

[khb1st]

Whew! I'm safe then. I was worried for nothing it seems.

do I get a christmas card ?? (without moan)

--------------- Added 1212808848 at 1212808848 ---------------

Cool, that means i'm completely useless here... none of my hacks was illegally distributed... the only guys who duplicated my work are from Jelsoft.. lol

I question the truth of that statement, I believe you may be wrong

and may have been proven much more useful, without your knowledge:D

[Boofo]

Cool, that means i'm completely useless here... none of my hacks was illegally distributed... the only guys who duplicated my work are from Jelsoft.. lol

You bragging or complaining?

do I get a christmas card ?? (without moan)

Since you didn't mention any names, you are on the list. Waaayyyy down on the list, but at least there.

[Wired1]

As a slight offshoot to this discussion, I wonder if Jelsoft's pirate detection group (whatever they're called) checks the license of vB running on those sites distributing our mods (taken from here)? I wonder if they tie those member #s to accounts here and remove their privileges?

[Paul M]

If they dont have a licence then they dont have any privileges here.

[Wired1]

What I mean is: Site A w/ license uses license to download all of the mods from this site. They then use their licensed forum to distribute said mods on their forum to anyone who wants them, licensed or not.

Is this an abuse of the ToS (either of the paid license and/or the rules here) and if so, would their license be revoked?

[KURTZ]

Wired, like i saw in this thread is that they don't make anything against hack's piracy ... :S

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Jelsoft does not own the copyrights to modifications relreased on vB.org, and has no legal rights to take any action.

[Boofo]

So we are on our own if we post hacks here. Good to know.

[Paul M]

Thats correct, just like every other modifications site in the world - except that we have a licence check, unlike every other site (well, except the German site).

[nexialys]

come on guys, stop whinning, if your scripts are duplicated there, that mean you do good job... they like your hacks so they spread them everywhere... aren't you happy??

these pirates are not doing any profit from it... compared to any coder here that do commercial work for their clients... they use your hacks freely and are paid for it... this is where the focus have to be put if you want to panic for something...

[KURTZ]

these pirates are not doing any profit from it...

i don't think so Nexia ... instead i think that some sites can give to the newbies some support onto their sites because they can show to these newbies that they are 'masters of coding' ... hope you can get my point ... :)

edit. with 'support' i mean money ...

[nexialys]

sure i get your point.. lol.. i was more relating to credits and real commercial profits... beside the fact that some pirates are hired by corps to help on security and coding, the others are merely captain Ahab in the market of files sharing.. lol

[Opserty]

I think its more an issue of someones' pride and joy being duplicated and used without their consent. It doesn't really have nothing to do with money/support or anything else (well at least not for me), people put these modifications together for free and I guess it is annoying that someone else comes along and redistributes them without asking.

Like if you are giving sweets out to people then someone comes along takes a handful and starts giving them out to other people. Sure you don't really mind but you'd rather have given out the sweets to the person yourself, would you not? ;)

[Boofo]

The part I don't like is some of these sites charge for the hacks or the option to download them.

[davidw]

Like if you are giving sweets out to people then someone comes along takes a handful and starts giving them out to other people. Sure you don't really mind but you'd rather have given out the sweets to the person yourself, would you not? ;)
Using that analogy, one addendum would be that you were the one who created the sweets and they took the credit for creating them.

[Wired1]

I think its more an issue of someones' pride and joy being duplicated and used without their consent. It doesn't really have nothing to do with money/support or anything else (well at least not for me), people put these modifications together for free and I guess it is annoying that someone else comes along and redistributes them without asking.

Like if you are giving sweets out to people then someone comes along takes a handful and starts giving them out to other people. Sure you don't really mind but you'd rather have given out the sweets to the person yourself, would you not? ;)

It's more than that. These mods can only be downloaded by people with valid license keys. When distributed through other means, this bypasses the level of security, and makes the security invalid. It also means software pirates can benefit even further via our mods.

[Attilitus]

It's more than that. These mods can only be downloaded by people with valid license keys. When distributed through other means, this bypasses the level of security, and makes the security invalid. It also means software pirates can benefit even further via our mods.


If someone knows how to get an illicit version of vBulletin, they can just as easily get hacks online from the same illicit community.

[Opserty]

Using that analogy, one addendum would be that you were the one who created the sweets and they took the credit for creating them.
Pretend they were little fairy cakes you baked yourself then :D

[KURTZ]

It's more than that. These mods can only be downloaded by people with valid license keys. When distributed through other means, this bypasses the level of security, and makes the security invalid. It also means software pirates can benefit even further via our mods.

exactly ... that's i said, and that's the 'issue' ...

[smacklan]

Folks...surely with all the internet savvy people we have here you must know all of this is a mute point? There is nothing that can be done to stop piracy. It can be "annoyed" sometimes, but never stopped. Once your stuff is out there, it's out there forever. There is no way the org or anyone else can protect your work...heck, you wouldn't even be able to prevent this from your own site either. The bottom line is either relax and get over the reality or don't publish your work...it's really as simple as that.

[Boofo]

And then the community loses out on all of my expert work. :rolleyes:

[smacklan]

And then the community loses out on all of my expert work. :rolleyes:
What would you suggest then Bob? You've been around long enough to know there really isn't anything that can be done to stop this. Believe me, I wish there was. I tried for a long time before I came to the realization that I could either spend all my time stressing over it and trying to get every site that passes on my stuff shut down or I could focus on what I can control. The reality is there are licensed members here who get some sort of warped kick out of being part of the "underground" and have no respect for the authors and their work and could care less about the damage it does. There are literally thousands of websites giving away (and yes, sometimes profiting from) our work. Talk to Howard at Pirate Reports if you think there is something you can do proactively...he'll tell you the best thing you can do is pay him $1000's each month and let him track down these fools and shut them down. For every one you shut down, 5 more pop up in their place :(

[Boofo]

My comment was meant as facetious, but since you asked, I don't have a problem with it from here on out as I don't plan on releasing anything publicly anymore.