please please PLEASE fix searches!

[Blaine0002]

somone recently referred me to a 'RPG Integration Hack v3.5.1 Patch Level 2' in one of my threads asking if they integrate, so i figure i would check it out, so i paste it in the search box.

Error: you cant have anything less than 3 characters in your search
or something of the sort

i narrow it down a bit and enter Integration Hack v3.5.1 Patch Level

Lo and behold, i get 20 pages of results, and not one on the first page has anything to do with rpgs or integrations :P

This is just an example, i have had many a problem with the search system on vb.org and its really becoming a pain to find anything

[Wayne Luke]

Searches aren't really broke, they just have a 4 character minimum limit. The admins here can't change it either as all the vBulletin servers would have to be taken off line for quite some time to change it. It could actually take several days to change all the databases and the sites would have to be completely offline during that time. This means no vb.org, vbulletin-germany.com or vbulletin.com. No sales or support either during that time. Not something we're willing to undertake at this time.

[Paul M]

Pretty much as Wayne says.

There is nothing broken to fix - I really don't understand why people think the search here is any different to anywhere else - it isn't - it's the standard vbulletin/mysql full text search used by thousands of other vb forums.

Even the mysql 4 character limit is the same as almost all installations, as that is the mysql default - and almost no one ever changes it.

[Blaine0002]

Its not even the limit, i was only using that rpg thing as an example, its hard to search for exactly what your looking for and find it without wading through many pages of search results.
is there not an options of rebuilding search index?

[Freesteyelz]

An alternative is to search using Google's define. Enter text in Google's search box:

vb.org: RPG Integration Hack v3.5.1 Patch Level 2

The first result will be that of the mod. The search will have no character restrictions and it seems to eliminate most false postives. :) If anything, I'd like to see an open search box, such as Google, on this site for alternative searches.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Or use less search words:

Searching for: Integration Hack v3.5.1 Patch Level
Will give you all threads that have somewhere in the posts: Integration OR Hack OR Patch OR level

Try searching for only "Integration" and select to search only thread titles.

[Paul M]

is there not an options of rebuilding search index?

No, that option only applies to the old vbulletin search system, most forums these days (inc us) use the mysql search system.

[Dean C]

Always use quotation marks when searching for a phrase such as welcome panel :)

[Opserty]

site:vbulletin.org "Some mod"

On google, beats a general vBulletin search any day :p

[nix]

rpg*

2nd result.

[XXP]

Or use less search words:

Searching for: Integration Hack v3.5.1 Patch Level
Will give you all threads that have somewhere in the posts: Integration OR Hack OR Patch OR level

Try searching for only "Integration" and select to search only thread titles.

I think that the user's complaint is valid. It would be swell -- not to mention very helpful -- if TPTB at vB would allow smaller words. Both for searching here and for searching at the dot.com site.

There are several vB keywords that are less than 4 characters plus many more words in the common vB vernacular and even more where the vocabulary of vB and the larger Web overlap.

Thanks

[Marco van Herwaarden]

See post #2

[s0lidgr0und]

I ran into the same problem when I tried to search for something that had 'pm' in the title. I never thought to use the wildcard, though.

[XXP]

See post #2


Thanks Marco,

I'm guessing that you're thinking of Mr. Luke's concern that "the [vB official] sites would have to be completely offline" for "several days to change all the databases". (emphasis added)

Good News! It is very possible that, that amount of downtime is not necessary.

It might be done with just a couple of hours -- or a few -- of "no new posts" time and a few minutes of actual down time to reload and restart.

The MySQL docs suggest that text search tables can be copied offline from the running database and then separately indexed, then differenced and replaced in the only briefly halted database.

There is some info on this in the MySQL docs (http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/fulltext-search.html) for "Full-text Search Functions". For example: "A FULLTEXT index definition can be ... added later using ALTER TABLE or CREATE INDEX. For large data sets, it is much faster to load your data into a table that has no FULLTEXT index and then create the index after that, than to load data into a table that has an existing FULLTEXT index. "

It might be possible to mitigate the difference issue by pulling the copy at the beginning of low-peak and then running the index on a separate, dedicated and MySQL optimized machine. (The regular back-ups are probably run at the off-peak times already.)

A test run will tell you if actual significant downtime is necessary beyond a few hours of off-peak "no new posts" time.

Hope this is helpful. It would be so very helpful to have the shorter search terms.

An alternative for the vB.official sites might be to set up a dedicated in-house search [Google?] engine.

PS: the link above goes to the MySQL 3.x/4.x docs (http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/fulltext-search.html). The same info is in the 5.x docs (http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/fulltext-search.html) and in the 6.x docs (http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/6.0/en/fulltext-search.html) also.

[Wayne Luke]

It might be possible to mitigate the difference issue by pulling the copy at the beginning of low-peak and then running the index on a separate, dedicated and MySQL optimized machine. (The regular back-ups are probably run at the off-peak times already.)

It is the fact that we have several dedicated MySQL servers powering the sites and that changes need to be replicated across all of them before the servers can be brought back online. It has been tested and our developers know the techniques.

If it were as trivial as people seem to think it is, we would have made the change already.

[XXP]

It has been tested and our developers know the techniques.

Thanks. Great to know.

If it were as trivial as people seem to think it is, we would have made the change already.

I don't think anybody means to insult you guys or to trivialize the work that you do. I surely didn't mean to suggest that the task was trivial. (Merging different versions of DB tables is anything but trivial.)

It's just a much needed feature from the users' point of view -- and you have the good fortune of having a constant supply of new users who are bound by necessity to ask the same questions again and again.

Getting the same questions over and over may not seem so fortunate but its always a sign of goodness.

Thanks for your kind responses.

[criscokid]

Even the mysql 4 character limit is the same as almost all installations, as that is the mysql default - and almost no one ever changes it.
It's often really difficult to solve a problem when the error message given by a vB / mySQL install contains many instances of the lettered words or error numbers.