Drop the Code/Designer titles

[Dream]

I'd like to suggest to drop the coder/designer titles to promote iguality, and allow people to choose their own title. Leave the default title Member, a neutral title.

I think different titles just promote splits.

edit: oh and make the poll a public poll cause I forgot :/

edit2: if the problem is the moderator titles, make them bold or italic etc

[Dean C]

I am all for dropping the titles, in most cases. For example, there are a few well-known members around here who are certainly not coders, but because they adapted a few bits of other peoples code from previous versions of vBulletin, and then re-released it they get a "Coder" title? Stick them in a front of a computer, with no documentation and internet, and get them to code me something decent, and they'd be like a fish out of water.

I don't agree with letting people choose their own titles though. Therfore because the poll question is undescriptive, and I don't agree with the whole of your idea, I shan't case my vote :)

[Dream]

Fair enough :P

I just think everyone being a "Member" would be a little dull.

[Ziki]

I like it this way.It's a small reward for you.

[Snake]

I'm all for it so add me to the list.

[Dream]

Snake please re-read the thread where I tried to help you but failed.

[cheat-master30]

The only problem for this is that of the Private Coders Discussion. I think it relies on the ranks to allow each member access. If though that was somehow public to anyone who released even one code... then I would agree.

[Shelley_c]

I'm all for dropping the titles for a number of reasons.

1. I don't need any site telling me that I am a designer. I know what i am and am not capable of doing.
2. User titles promotes members to submit (in this case designers and I suppose it can extend to coders) to submit copyrighted material to gain that user title which means absolutely nothing.
3. It's a fast track way of dividing the community. Nobody on here is better than anyone else and alienating members that cannot contribute alienates them. This also promotes sloppy content in the way of hacks/designs submitted into both respected databases because members feel that having such a title means something here when infact it doesn't. High quality content is key.

[ChrisLM2001]

I think different titles just promote splits.

There's splits by default. It's not as bad as the old days, but the mindset still persists (just ask the vB devs about the priority of converting vBulletin to XHTML Strict, and watch the coder vs designer war begin!). :p

[Dream]

There's splits by default. It's not as bad as the old days, but the mindset still persists (just ask the vB devs about the priority of converting vBulletin to XHTML Strict, and watch the coder vs designer war begin!). :p

The effort should be the contrary, to unite. Splits by default is one more reason to not encourage it more by adding ranks. And enabling custom titles would let people personalize their accounts, which everyone likes, and give them more freedom, which everyone likes.

--------------- Added 1193336983 at 1193336983 ---------------

Also custom titles are a question of order. You don't need that much order to run a forum.

[ChrisLM2001]

Too much water under that bridge to "unite". The mindset of both camps are different. One is supposed to be based on function and form; the other style and emotion. It's oil and water, and they don't mix well.

15 years ago the programmers dictated to the graphic designers (especially keeping the skins light). Today the Lead Graphic Designer/Art Director will get top billing in credits, and earn 1/4 to 1/3 more income than the Lead Programmer (sometimes even more than the Project Director). That's all due to what matters to the end-user now: they'd rather play a buggy/patched game with cinematic DX10 graphics powered by a 800watt 1GB SLI videocards maxed at 1600x1200 resolution, than care about "elegant" code (and way games are created today, forget modding them with any ease -- 3 materials, *3* needed for every image now).

The "split" is natural. Woe the day when both are friendly -- code will become stylish; style will become chained by "rulez".

[Dream]

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see coders and designers fighting on this forum... The split I was more concerned about was coders/designers vs. regular members.

[ChrisLM2001]

The split exists. You don't need to fight to know of it.

Don't care about the labels. Know I'm an illustrator/web designer. Don't need a label to prove it.

[Guest190829]

The distinction between Coders/Designers and Members exist, so it is appropriate to title accordingly. Some members have released work and others haven't, this is not judging anyone or dividing any member, it's simply a classification.

The argument regarding the case that some hold these titles without justifying the meaning behind them, well, we never said these titles were qualitative of an authors work. There is no way to judge something like that artificially, and it would be even hard to judge it realistically because we all have different styles and taste regarding proper programming methods.

And, as others have stated, some coders enjoy their title and take pride in it. There is nothing wrong with that.

[no mods]

I like the designer title next to my name. So I say no. But maybe they could make it a little harder to achieve the title. As I remember getting it really soon, two soon actually.

[Dream]

The distinction between Coders/Designers and Members exist, so it is appropriate to title accordingly.

I disagree. By saying distinction you might imply coders/designers are superior to regular members, or just use it as a condition of being different. Coders, designers and regular members will be different regardless of their title. You don't need to add distinction to the equation just so a few egos feel good, for each one there's an ego feeling down. It also draws a clear line separating coders/designers from regular members, where everyone should be treated equally, as opposed to be treated with distinction.

[Dean C]

To those who have pointed out that they don't need to labelled, as they already know what they are; I think that the whole reason of the user titles was to promote your status to other members, not to yourself ;) Nevertheless, the whole system is flawed in that people can rehash others work and claim they are coders/designers.

[King Kovifor]

If I was a user who didn't know a thing about coding / designing, I would take the word of someone who has released a template modification or code hack more seriously than a word of a member who hasn't released anything.

Not because members who don't release anything don't know anything. I would have know way to prove that these members actually have a little bit of knowledge on the subject. If someone writes a reply, they may very well know what they are talking about. But some members (not here) will reply to a coding question and not know what they are talking about.

And personally, I liked having (since it is now Advisor... Oh well) a "coder" title because my family doesn't always believe me when I say I do this stuff. So I go on and show them that I actually can do this stuff. I do not believe it is flawed, biased, or meant in any way to split "non coders" from "coders". It's just that simple.

[Guest190829]

I disagree. By saying distinction you might imply coders/designers are superior to regular members, or just use it as a condition of being different. Coders, designers and regular members will be different regardless of their title. You don't need to add distinction to the equation just so a few egos feel good, for each one there's an ego feeling down. It also draws a clear line separating coders/designers from regular members, where everyone should be treated equally, as opposed to be treated with distinction.

You are misinterpreting what I am saying, this has nothing to do with 'egos' or 'superiority'...let me amend that..it shouldn't have anything to do with egos or superiority. If you are looking at it that way, you are misinterpreting the reasons behind the titles.

So if one "might imply coders/designers are superior to regular members," they are implying wrongly.

By my definition of distinction, I literally mean a distinction in the fact that coders/designers have released something and members without the title haven't; nothing more nothing less.

[Dream]

And personally, I liked having (since it is now Advisor... Oh well) a "coder" title because my family doesn't always believe me when I say I do this stuff. So I go on and show them that I actually can do this stuff. I do not believe it is flawed, biased, or meant in any way to split "non coders" from "coders". It's just that simple.
Sorry, which point you made you are saying that is simple? I can't reply if I don't know. I can just say that I don't agree that the titles do not split the community.
By my definition of distinction, I literally mean a distinction in the fact that coders/designers have released something and members without the title haven't; nothing more nothing less.

phew.

I understand that. Now try to understand when I say forum titles split communities. Not all 4000 coders are mature enough to transcend this. And not all regular members are ok with this, many wanting to have a shiny title too, other than "Member". It's competitive human nature. Wouldn't you rather have everyone happy by removing titles? Wouldn't you rather create a feeling they are in the same boat? Would you rather have the "Average Joe" title or the "Coder/Designer" title? Or the "Administrator" title, even? Or write any title? Do you like your label? I don't like mine.

[Paul M]

Your suggestion has been noted.

No matter what system is used, someone is going to want something different - the current system (which dates from about the start of the year) is a simplyfied version of the previous system, which in turn was used for many years. There are no plans to change it further atm.

[Dream]

ok cheers

[ChrisLM2001]

To those who have pointed out that they don't need to labelled, as they already know what they are; I think that the whole reason of the user titles was to promote your status to other members, not to yourself ;) Nevertheless, the whole system is flawed in that people can rehash others work and claim they are coders/designers.

If you don't code or design here, how will the "status" change? I didn't sign up to vb.org to gain a "title" or "status", just to get mods and maybe help someone with something art related. Do I code? Yes (studying C++). Do I design? Yes (over 30 years worth). But I have no preference for a label that is just a label.

"Titles" and "status" are there for those who are insecure enough to need it to prove to others.

[Brad]

Take it away, leave it there, change it to something else, whatever. I could care less about the title under my username. ;)

[Roms]

I like them, a sense of achievement. 'some' will complain about everything, just to have a complaint.... ;)

[aeturner89]

If you don't code or design here, how will the "status" change? I didn't sign up to vb.org to gain a "title" or "status", just to get mods and maybe help someone with something art related. Do I code? Yes (studying C++). Do I design? Yes (over 30 years worth). But I have no preference for a label that is just a label.
So if it's just a label what real difference does it make if it's there or not? I find it beneficial to know who code and design. Not for the sake of their skill or expertise, but know if they've released anything here. It's kind a reference label.

"Titles" and "status" are there for those who are insecure enough to need it to prove to others.
Don't you think that's a bit of an exaggeration?

[Shazz]

I don't like them, if someone wanted to know if your a coder or designer they would just look at your profile for your releases

v/Yes

[Marco van Herwaarden]

It does help to know that you need to look in the profile for work released because the person is 'labeled' as a coder or designer.

Or do you want to go check the profiles of all members?

[Shazz]

It does help to know that you need to look in the profile for work released because the person is 'labeled' as a coder or designer.

Or do you want to go check the profiles of all members?

This is just me-
but when I look at posts I see is the username who posted it, not the coder/designer in user title... and maybe their avy (since its picture that catches the eye).
If I wanted to know about that person I would visit their profile.

Id like a custom user title :)
Maybe make custom user titles required 500 or 1000 posts, so new members don't abuse it

[G0F0RBR0KE]

I guess they want to check every user to see who released a modification.

It doesn't make us superior from someone, however, it tells us if he/she release something we can use.

I prefer it stays this way. This way, I know if he's a coder and I might check his profile to see what he/she released.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

I doubt we will ever allow for custom usertitles. We already have our hands full moderating regular posts etc..

[Dean C]

If you don't code or design here, how will the "status" change? I didn't sign up to vb.org to gain a "title" or "status", just to get mods and maybe help someone with something art related. Do I code? Yes (studying C++). Do I design? Yes (over 30 years worth). But I have no preference for a label that is just a label.

"Titles" and "status" are there for those who are insecure enough to need it to prove to others.

You're making the same point as me :) I don't want the user titles.

[Freesteyelz]

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see coders and designers fighting on this forum...

You'd have quite a conflict and headache there. :D

[Shelley_c]

<removed>

[Paul M]

Time to close this it seems.