Jelsoft sold ?! not me!

[nexialys]

<a href="http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235378" target="_blank">http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235378</a>

as James may be in a April fools journey, i will wait for the pro-official echoes...

but if this is right, Jelsoft is now part of a bigger company, with guys who are paid more seriously and that means we are now all Volunteered within a mega-corporation...

i don't remember if Microsoft have volunteered persons in its charge, or if people are working for free in the Hilton hotels, but i think we will now have to face the facts... Jelsoft is not the place we were all welcome anymore...

i give support for free, i even coded for free for a long time... this have to end with this announcement.

vBulletin.org is not only a place for coders to share code, 25%+ of the actual system is based on our own work provided for free and taken without our consent to build this tool that was sold to a company with a lot of resources...

we all deserve to be paid for the result. and we will not be paid. being paid is not only important for the cash, it is important for the situation... if us coders would not have provided these hacks for years, who would tell if Jelsoft would've been sold in this situation... we're the ones who make the vBulletin software look better for each version... we're also are the guys who support this software because at vB.com they are not supporting it when it is modified... and i can tell it is rare to see unmodified forums these days...

anyway... James, this is not a joke to make if you are on an April Fools journey... and if this is the real facts, sorry but i quit... for good... that's enough being frustrated by the "way" we are not supported by Jelsoft, now we have to be unsupported by a bigger company that will never pay us a penny even if we're the ones to make it rich...

think of it coders, they are now able to pay the guys who support their software... if you do not receive a cent of what they will gain from your work, do the same... quit !!!... you can work by yourself on your own side... vb.org will now be a place for volunteers who have too much time to spend and are not interested to be paid... never!

[smacklan]

I'd say this is not a joke. As to the rest of your post, you would have never been compensated by Jelsoft anyway so what difference does this make? Actually it's the work you and others have done for free that helped put Jelsoft in this position in the first place and just smart business on their part. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but something like this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here given the success of vBulletin so I really don't see how anything has changed...just my 2 cents.

[Dismounted]

Unexpected....

[nexialys]

I'd say this is not a joke. As to the rest of your post, you would have never been compensated by Jelsoft anyway so what difference does this make? Actually it's the work you and others have done for free that helped put Jelsoft in this position in the first place and just smart business on their part. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but something like this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here given the success of vBulletin so I really don't see how anything has changed...just my 2 cents.
you are exactly right smacklan... i do not tell the opposite... the thing is that for the situation, i would expect Jelsoft to at least support vb.org in a better way, like giving coders here more flexibility on releasing the hacks we do... providing a better SDK when they knew it would be great for their situation - they were negociating for a long time i know it - and now, they release one product after the others, surprising everybody around because Jelsoft always told they would not do other things than forum... not surprising now that they are sold...

anyway... this will surely bring a lot of debates, i'm the first one to comment on this because i was posted early.. lol

oh, and btw, the only thank given by James is for the clients... THANKS JAMES FOR THE SUPPORT!

[smacklan]

hehe...I agree with everything you've said (for once lol). Now that Jelsoft is part of a conglomerate, it will be interesting to see what happens with this site...and all us third party vendors out there who have enjoyed success supporting vbulletin.

[RedTyger]

If I may steer the thread back in the direction of Planet Earth a little... we do not deserve to be paid. We are volunteers. We knew what the arrangement was when we signed up, we did everything we have done off our own backs, without obligation.

If you do not want to contribute, then do not contribute. If you want to be paid for coding, get a coding job. If you do not want to be a volunteer, do not volunteer. If you do not want to give away work or support for free, then do not work or give support for free. I think it is fair to say that the above is common sense and everyone should have understood it without creating their own expectations.

Yes, Jelsoft do very well out of the community here. Yes, they could support it a little better. That is all you can reasonably ask for. I honestly thought this was a joke at first, I don't understand how what you are saying can make sense.

[nexialys]

you do not understand because you're not here from the begining... i'm here from day 2, i can say... (this account is my #3 since 2001...) and i can tell that if there is a way we'd be paid is not with cash but at least with credits and respect...

it is not about contributing to a big company that is a problem.. it is that now they will have paid coders to do the support we were doing, they will have paid guys to deliver the hacks we were doing, and we have no credits whatsoever nowhere...

i actually did not volunteered here to provide codes for fun and see other guys being paid for the hacks i've coded... i can tell it was frustrating for me to see that the latest enhancements of vbulletin were first coded by guys here, without having a single line of credit in the code nowhere... and most of the coders who were "stolen" that way are now out of the business, or at least have quit vb.org to code for commercial projects instead because they are not fools...

i'm one of them, even if i continued to chat here... i actually have more than 3500 lines of code in 3.6.7, and my name is nowhere... reason: they jut changed the code or simply renamed the variables so the hacks integrated are not "from" someone else...

actually, this is the exact same situation that IPB came with 4 years ago... small project with contributors, switched to a commercial kind of way, and tada... everybody have to pay twice the price for the next release, etc etc...

the situation is not about coders volunteering... you can always do it... this is a free world. the thing is that now, you will have to think that some other guys will be doing the same thing as you do, and your name will be nowhere... before, when Jelsoft was small, this was ok, they did not change the code of the software based on hacks released here that much, and they were happy to name the guys who contributed... not anymore.

and i'm not frustrated... i have quit the community long time ago, even if i released some gadgets not long ago... but that's about it... not sure nobody else will do it or not...

it's more a question of why you are here actually...

[Dutchmang]

This does not add up to me.... The buyer is a Web site operator not a software developer. While I always thought Jelsoft would get bought, I was hoping it would be to someone who could help professionalize their processes.... So I don't get it.

I work for one of those real companies and saw how "loosey-goosey" Jelsoft did things compared to the discipline required for real commercial software. Figured it was just a matter of getting to the point where "adult supervision" was going to be required. Nothing bad about that, just the consequence of success.

Instead they sell out to a media company whose president (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/26/technology/26ecom.html?ex=1308974400&en=f7ed5438875f822f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) looks like Willem DeFoe. Apparently the bidding never got very hot.

Not feeling good about this.... will watch this closely. There's another shoe to drop IMHO.

[Ohiosweetheart]

I have to agree with Dutch ^. The buyer is a surprise. Here's their website -
http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/

??????? Makes no sense to me. But not alot of what they do, does :)

I'm betting that there will be a pricetag increase, probably sooner rather than later. When you take into account that the price for a vB licence hasn't increased for a long time, you can just about count on it.

[sebbe]

Perhaps they should give a few people credit, be it in the actual code or at some page on their website, for contributing with ideas or code snippets. I wouldn't expect anything more in addition to that, really.

[nexialys]

the pricetag will increase with 4.0 for sure, as they provide new extensions, and that was the goal of the market price of vB...

[Wayne Luke]

Perhaps they should give a few people credit, be it in the actual code or at some page on their website, for contributing with ideas or code snippets. I wouldn't expect anything more in addition to that, really.

vBulletin's credits list everyone who has code or image contributions in the system already.

[Alfa1]

IB has been acquiring renowned internet companies for some time now:
http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/news/press-releases
This can go both ways. Yes, it becomes bigger and maybe more commercial. That poses some risk in regard to company policy. But more investment, means more development of vbulletin. Which is something that we all benefit of.

[nexialys]

vBulletin's credits list everyone who has code or image contributions in the system already.
by the way the credits are given, and the way the codes were created, there is no credit for the inspiration... (and perspiration though)...

i did not read a single credit for bugfixes inside vb code... and actually, most of the bugfixes i've seen are made by global effort, not always by a single person's work... a good way to credit people is to write something like "line 134, this fix was provided by Alfa1"... :)

nobody ever credit the inspiration, so for sure the credits lines of vbulletin are not that long... but by not thanking the vBulletin.org coders in their announcement is a large lack of respect for all the work done here...

[Distance]

I agree coders should receive some sort of credit for the contributions however it would take alot of work to have credits line for line.

Distance

[joeychgo]

the pricetag will increase with 4.0 for sure, as they provide new extensions, and that was the goal of the market price of vB...


My first guess - a price increase of some sort will happen. It might be a simple price change or a change in their pricing structure. Thought could mean the end of leased licenses, or the introduction of a lifetime license (where you dont have to pay annual fees). It could also mean the end of owned licenses since they dont generate as much cash long term as leased licenses. Something will likely happen to produce a large influx of cash quickly.

Why do I say this? Many companies do this upon aquisition to pay for the cost of the aquisition. Its very common.

I would also predict that we will see more official vB add ons. A photo gallery for example, or a homepage portal. This would be another way to raise money quickly.

[steven s]

Pretty cool that people have a crystal ball to look in.

[smacklan]

I'm gonna reserve judgment for now. vB has been very good to me and I hope it remains the leader in forum software for years to come.

[Distance]

Pretty cool that people have a crystal ball to look in.

This is a discussion thread, nobody ever said it was a fact that the prices will go up, people are just expressing there opinions.

[theFAILURE]

Business must grow. This is why they are in business in the 1st place. To profit and to succeed.

If it benefited them, its the right thing to do for business.

If the price of VB goes up, so be it. That is part of economy.

If you still enjoy the VB product, and care to demonstrate your excellent coding abilities as a volunteer, then keep up the good work.

If not? Seems like you have a situation at hand.

[cyberphr]

Doesn't look like any _immediate_ changes will occur.

[The Geek]

Why should it change right now? You don't buy a successful company to change it. You only change unsuccessful companies.

To me, it looks like a logical move for ib so Ill reserve judgement for now :)

[winduff]

we won't even feel the change... it's like the VAT went up in germany this year. In 2006 everyone complained, now (2007) nobody complains or even knows about it....

That's of course no comparisson, but I don't think anything external will change, unlike internally ;)

[nexialys]

Pretty cool that people have a crystal ball to look in.

i can tell i have a crystal ball ... i'm in the market with high end buyers for so long that i know how the things ALWAYS goes in that part of the virtual...

sur the prices will change in the future... a company does not sell his market only to sell it... Jelsoft sold the stock to be richier, not poorer... and they surely not sold their part only because someone wanted to support them... they do not need a supporter, they need a higher market and the only way to go to it is buy giving more power to their company.

and i hope nobody will announce the price of this deal...

[AN-net]

several of their websites use vBulletin products. Why not buy the software maker of your site?

[nexialys]

several... i have more websites running vbulletin than them... does that mean i have to buy the company ?!

my marketshare is 1.3 M$... that does not mean i have to invest all my profits to buy the software...

[Brandon Sheley]

interesting move..

[Zachery]

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235378

as James may be in a April fools journey, i will wait for the pro-official echoes...

but if this is right, Jelsoft is now part of a bigger company, with guys who are paid more seriously and that means we are now all Volunteered within a mega-corporation...

i don't remember if Microsoft have volunteered persons in its charge, or if people are working for free in the Hilton hotels, but i think we will now have to face the facts... Jelsoft is not the place we were all welcome anymore...

i give support for free, i even coded for free for a long time... this have to end with this announcement.

vBulletin.org is not only a place for coders to share code, 25%+ of the actual system is based on our own work provided for free and taken without our consent to build this tool that was sold to a company with a lot of resources...

we all deserve to be paid for the result. and we will not be paid. being paid is not only important for the cash, it is important for the situation... if us coders would not have provided these hacks for years, who would tell if Jelsoft would've been sold in this situation... we're the ones who make the vBulletin software look better for each version... we're also are the guys who support this software because at vB.com they are not supporting it when it is modified... and i can tell it is rare to see unmodified forums these days...

anyway... James, this is not a joke to make if you are on an April Fools journey... and if this is the real facts, sorry but i quit... for good... that's enough being frustrated by the "way" we are not supported by Jelsoft, now we have to be unsupported by a bigger company that will never pay us a penny even if we're the ones to make it rich...

think of it coders, they are now able to pay the guys who support their software... if you do not receive a cent of what they will gain from your work, do the same... quit !!!... you can work by yourself on your own side... vb.org will now be a place for volunteers who have too much time to spend and are not interested to be paid... never!
Last time i checked we (the users of vBulletin.org) were all here (vBulletin.org) to have fun and share our work with others to bring a smile to their face. This has never changed since day one, some peoples views of how the site works has.

[phill2003]

Who cares, I own my license already and so wont have to pay any more for another :)

[Reeve of shinra]

several of their websites use vBulletin products. Why not buy the software maker of your site?

Companies are actually going in the other direction. Less companies are doing everything in house and they are now trying to focus thier attention and thier resources on thier core businesses by outsourcing as much as they can to third parties. Outsourcing gets a black mark in the media but if your main business is making widgets, it makes sense to let another company run and optimize your website and your network.

Internet Brands is just a holding company of profitable internet businesses - there is no synergy or even core market or core focus. Thats what scares me.

[nexialys]

Last time i checked we (the users of vBulletin.org) were all here (vBulletin.org) to have fun and share our work with others to bring a smile to their face. This has never changed since day one, some peoples views of how the site works has.

you can see it the way you want Zachery... so then you ALWAYS do the jobs here for free ?!.. .always volunteers to answer paid requests for free ?!...

please drop the idealistic visualisation, we're not in the StarTrek period yet...

most of the coders i know here are interested to make a living of their coding. most of them also have their efforts in other projects where they are paid to build vBulletin hacks and products... they are not here for smiles...

[AN-net]

Companies are actually going in the other direction. Less companies are doing everything in house and they are now trying to focus thier attention and thier resources on thier core businesses by outsourcing as much as they can to third parties. Outsourcing gets a black mark in the media but if your main business is making widgets, it makes sense to let another company run and optimize your website and your network.

Internet Brands is just a holding company of profitable internet businesses - there is no synergy or even core market or core focus. Thats what scares me.

if you look at Google though they have been acquiring most of their new technologies. I was really just pointing an interesting fact that they manage several large communities that run vBulletin.

[Reeve of shinra]

Yes but in Googles case - those aquisitions are directly related to the enhancement or expansion of thier core business and product lines.

[IPsecure]

Internet Brands is just a holding company of profitable internet businesses - there is no synergy or even core market or core focus. Thats what scares me.

My thoughts exactly. Vbulletin is a completely different market and concept of what they currently deal with. Maybe Internet Brands is thinking of turning Vbulletin into a "large ticket" forum package. Usually with moves like this 2 things happen: the price increases and support goes by the wayside. I'm sure you will have every Jelsoft employee tell you differently, but the history of such "acquisitions" tells the whole story.

[Razasharp]

The thing that concerns me the most is that many sites using vB are actually competitors of IB's own sites!

Will they start 'crushing' that competition by holding back features? Will they just kill vB full stop and all future releases will be priced so high that only 'they' and a limited few can really use it? How much does $1,500 sound? I know lessor pieces of software selling for that much!!

There's just so much uncertainty - but I hope all our fears are unfounded and actually, it's the best thing to happen to vB.

I also hope they reach out to the community themselves (and soon) with an announcement from their own chairman/md.

[nexialys]

the only thing positive in such situation is the wallet of Jelsoft's guys... do you seriously think it would benefit anyother ?!... this is a transaction from owner to owner, not a deal with the clients...

[Chroder]

I think some of the responses in this thread are pretty unbelievable. We've been told things will continue just as they have been. Whether this is true or not is yet to be seen. This is like preemptive outrage which is just silly.

I especially resent the idea that vB modders should be paid, as if it's a matter of principle. As another member already pointed out, if you don't want to volunteer then get outta here.

At this point all we know for sure is that Jelsoft was acquired. The best scenario is things improve, worst scenario is things get worse. Given how Jelsoft has always been true in the past, I am confident they wouldn't have made a deal that would be detrimental to the community.

[nexialys]

Invision Power guys were all the same before... they always told they would not higher the price of their free forum... now it is one of the high-priced software on the market...

same for Postnuke that i'm the founder of... i quit the project when the guys decided to go commercial, in case they start selling stuff over it... they have done, and now the project is in stasis...

a lot of projects like this one are promissing and going in the right pathh until someone buy them for the marketshare...

[Dutchmang]

My point is that Jelsoft didn't go to a software shop. That's where I see the risk. vBulletin needs the systems and tools of a real software shop to get to the next level (see: 3.67 PL1 and all the thrashing around new "products"). I was kinda holding out hope that Jelsoft would do a 4.0 version with a real Web 2.0 interface, end user "drag and drop" customization, and especially fixing that half-done calendar system.

Not slagging the existing product or the people who created it, but the rusty vB user interface needs some serious updating... and I don't see IB making that investment -- or at least sharing it with the existing base. If I'm wrong I'll admit that, but I've been in the software industry a l-o-o-o-ng time and this simply does not compute for me in any way that looks positive. Hope that's wrong.

[quiklink]

I think some of the responses in this thread are pretty unbelievable. We've been told things will continue just as they have been. Whether this is true or not is yet to be seen. This is like preemptive outrage which is just silly.

I especially resent the idea that vB modders should be paid, as if it's a matter of principle. As another member already pointed out, if you don't want to volunteer then get outta here.

At this point all we know for sure is that Jelsoft was acquired. The best scenario is things improve, worst scenario is things get worse. Given how Jelsoft has always been true in the past, I am confident they wouldn't have made a deal that would be detrimental to the community.

:erm: Reading this thread is like reading the Chicken Little story all over again...

[AN-net]

Yes but in Googles case - those aquisitions are directly related to the enhancement or expansion of thier core business and product lines.
isn't the core business of a community the message boards? so buying the maker can only bring enhancements to a core function of their businesses.

[Lizard King]

I want to wait before making any decisions but as a customer if they decide to increase vBulletin price i'll not buy any other license then i currently have because if they do increase the price it will look exactly compansating the money they spend for the agreement. The company looks like an money investor , buying internet sites to a price then sell them with good profit in couple years. That's the only thing that bugs me.

[Reeve of shinra]

isn't the core business of a community the message boards? so buying the maker can only bring enhancements to a core function of their businesses.

In some cases yes... for example Google's hiring of Vint Cerf, purchasing Dark Fiber, and building out a data center were directly related to reducing the cost of their operations.

In other cases no.... for example lets use animationtalk.com - the core of your business are the users NOT the software running the site behind the scenes. Expenses aside, it wouldn't make any sense for you to buy Jelsoft. If you did, you would be forced to focus on the development of the software package as a whole when it would be easier to develop the aspects your site may specifically need. You have the extra burden of supporting the software when you really want to be talking about animation because thats what your users are interested in and its whats driving your revenue stream.

[nexialys]

sometimes i am asking myself "how Reeve is making it".... damn, you are intelligent and have the right words for everything you explain... ;)

[Roms]

Why should it change right now? You don't buy a successful company to change it. You only change unsuccessful companies.

To me, it looks like a logical move for ib so Ill reserve judgement for now :)

Exactly what I think. :)

[w1z4rd]

This is what we call "growing pains". It happens to virtually all successful businesses. I'm guessing this is going to get a lot more heated before the thread closes but imo it's going to be a good thing.

It wouldn't make sense to increase prices dramatically. This would drive away a large percentage of vb's end users and "part time" developers. Of which most would migrate to an open source alternative (SMF) or commercial competitor (IPB). In turn that would lead to an eventual scenario where VB would lose it's coveted "best community software" crown. That would definitely be bad for the company.

My guess is that VB will stay practically untouched for quite awhile to come. I'm expecting a few more commercial scripts from them though. Possibly in the CMS, Social Networking and Ecommerce genres. Again guessing but they will probably be based heavily on the VB code base and just rebranded as additional products. This would allow them to get a quick surge in profits while minimizing time and investment.

I say the price increases 10% within a year and that there will be two or three additional products available for sale. This is the only thing that makes sense when you consider what the company needs to do to continue it's growth.

My half cent.

[Dave Hawley]

Is the sky falling?

[Reeve of shinra]

Is the sky falling?

Is it better to address an issue before it happens or after?

[Roms]

Is it better to address an issue before it happens or after?

Both.. Preemptive strikes can help repel or defeat a perceived imminent offense and gain a strategic advantage. :D

[Dave Hawley]

Define "issue" for me please.

As far as I can tell, it has taken place already and even it hadn't, I don't see difference us posting in here can make? Businesses normally make business decisions based on facts and figures, not emotionally charged posts!

Don't you think it would more prudent find out IF there any "issues" rather than dreaming them up and reacting?

[Reeve of shinra]

I was speaking in a general sense as your initial statement was pretty much open to various interpretations and wasn't specific in its intent.

You are of course correct in that this action has already been taken... whats left is for the users to decide if we are comfortable with this and if we wish to continue running our communities on this platform or if we wish to take our business elsewhere. The nature of this conversation is to determine the facts and figures that will help us make this decision.

As for the "issues" there are a few dozen between this thread and the one on vbulletin.com. The concerns are being voiced, its up the company to address.

[Roms]

Define "issue" for me please.

As far as I can tell, it has taken place already and even it hadn't, I don't see difference us posting in here can make? Businesses normally make business decisions based on facts and figures, not emotionally charged posts!

Don't you think it would more prudent find out IF there any "issues" rather than dreaming them up and reacting?

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Many people have invested money, time, and more into this software and now they have concerns. It's better to sort through the problem or to see the situation "issue" more clearly.

Look at the problem in a new or different way.
Gain new insight into the situation.
Find out that you are not alone. You may find that many other people share concerns.
Identify options or solutions you hadn't thought of before.

[Dismounted]

I reckon IB's going to keep Jelsoft for a year or so, and when it's at a high value, sell it off.

[iogames]

Let me tell 'ya...

I hope NOT seeing unwanted Ads in any vB page or product...

[Dream]

I too would like it better if Jelsoft was bought by a software company. If Google bought Jelsoft that would have been good :)

But it's not all that bad, IB is a .com investor, or it looks like it to me. Investment alone could help Jelsoft grow and create more products for us to use. I'm not terribly impressed with Project Tools, but the Blogs have a chance.

As for being a volunteer at vB.org, last I heard this site is for forum administrators and hobbyists to share modifications of their boards, that should be the reward in itself. Not related, but mod users that expect professional support of free mods amuse me.

I don't think everyone should release everything here for free, and I have no problems with coders looking for paid jobs, but it's really annoying to see "lite" versions of paid mods on a forum whose intent is for sharing work.

I know I have strayed from the topic, but I think a new forum should be created, called Paid Mods, where coders would be allowed to create a topic for each paid mod advertising it. I'm going to create a topic about his on the Feedback forum right now, drop by if you like the idea.

[Wayne Luke]

If Google bought Jelsoft that would have been good :)


Google isn't a software company. They are an Advertising Company who uses vertical market search engines to sell such advertising.

[Dream]

I'm gonna quote you saying Google isn't a software company...

[Reeve of shinra]

Wayne is 100% correct here ... they are not a software company, they are an advertising company. They do a lot of software and product development for the simple reason that it helps drives advertising revenue. This is an excellent example of what I meant earlier about acquisitions supporting a company's core focus and the importance of having a single vision for each department and entity to work towards.

[Dream]

Oh well, you two are probably right. No Jelsoft for Google then.

[Zachery]

you can see it the way you want Zachery... so then you ALWAYS do the jobs here for free ?!.. .always volunteers to answer paid requests for free ?!...

please drop the idealistic visualisation, we're not in the StarTrek period yet...

most of the coders i know here are interested to make a living of their coding. most of them also have their efforts in other projects where they are paid to build vBulletin hacks and products... they are not here for smiles...
Perhaps you are here for the wrong reasons. This community was established to give users a place to share their modifications and work together.

[G0F0RBR0KE]

I really see no reason for Jelsoft to pay coders. We're the one that decided to give free support. Some coders does this for hobbies or because they're generous. Why don't you get an IPB and see what kind of mods you'll end up on your forum.

If you want to make money from coding, simply make a portfolio and hopefully someone is willing to buy it.

We have 2 section to make in-come money.

[Dave Hawley]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Many people have invested money, time, and more into this software and now they have concerns. Concerns based on what though? All I'm reading here is guess-work based on fear. Motivation by fear rarely yields fruitful results.

In regards to Google, they are are Search Engine company 1st and foremost who make most profit from contextual advertising. Google have never lost focus on the fact that without highly relevant fast organic search results they would loose billions in advertising.

To say Google is an advertising company is putting the cart before the horse.

[BigDog56]

Does anybody know of any other companies that IB has acquired and how they fared?

[nexialys]

Perhaps you are here for the wrong reasons. This community was established to give users a place to share their modifications and work together.

the funny thing is: why do you provide a Paid service request forum if everybody is SOOOOOO happy to work for free ?!...

you do not answer the question because you answer these requests yourself sometimes and make money from your own work on vb.org...

if the goal of the vb.org guys is to make this site look like the best place for volunteers, you can stop it... this would make the best of the ideas for IB to close this site and provide only one support forum, and centralize the efforts on a single site, with paid coders to give support and none of these good ideals would serve...

or maybe that's already done, because if Jelsoft never announced that they were negociating for a transaction that means that everything was darken to hide everything... they were "Aquired", not financed, not supported... aquired... that means Jelsoft no more... is vb.org was inside the transaction, and in what level ?!

if not most of the time, we can say "always", when aquirements come that fast, the whole system is transformed quickly after the transaction... so, as nobody officially announced the place of vb.org in the business, i suppose there is none... and as most of the guys from vB.org are already inside Jelsoft because they also are moderators of vb.com, they will be transformed into the New Jelsoft employees...

speculations are fun.. we can say anything, the future will give reason for one of these ideas....

[MPDev]

People often forget that the developers of software are running a business - and acquisitions are a normal part of doing business, as is taking on investors or selling out. Motivations are different for everyone, but we all seek to cash out at some time when we build a company - I myself have sold a few and it's part of making a living.

Change of any kind scares people; but it's how you look at it that defines you. Are you an optimist or a pessimist? As an optimist I think that the influx of capitol and resources will help vBulletin - although I doubt cash was a problem to begin with.

At the end of the day the only people entitled to any kind of payment are the shareholders; the rest of us are just along for the ride.

[nexialys]

you are absolutely right MPDev...

the question is not if the transaction was good or not for Jelsoft... there is no problem with that, it is a good thing for them...

but most of the projects with volunteers are managed by volunteers and "usually" are kept volunteered... projects managed by companies are usually a single bunch inside a company and the whole is sold in a single piece...

but here, we have the great vb.com project, by Jelsoft, and vb.org, by Jelsoft... for vb.com, no problem, it will be business as usual.... but for vb.org, where people are not inside the transaction... what will come of all the work done here "for the pleasure of it" ???

if this site would have been in the transaction, we'd be able to read it in the announcement... but even none of the coder, none of the volunteers have been thanked... just the clients... so get of the dream guys.

oh, and btw, Zachery... i'm here for the sake of providing support for my clients... because i have a lot of them on this site, and i support them here, because it is easy to reach the resources... i was not in the transaction regarding IB and Jelsoft, so i'm not employee of IB... what is my place then ?!... none... like the whole bunch of guys who do it for the fun of it.

[Zachery]

the funny thing is: why do you provide a Paid service request forum if everybody is SOOOOOO happy to work for free ?!... While this community was established for coders to work together on projects and share coding styles/skills/etc its also a good base of coders who may need to look for work. There are also people who'd like to pay someone for their time and efforts to do work for them. This does not subtract any value from the community as a whole.

[connkid25]

Here is my opinion. Take it or leave it... Just wait and see what happens. If VB starts going downhill, most of us will take it as a slap in the face and find another software company. I would think that phpbb would be a great place for all of you coders to start. Phpbb needs some serious help although its great for free software. Since your all doing these mods for free, why not move to a free forum?

I would agree that they should have sold to a software company. That would have been the most obvious thing to do. I think if you own a great car company and then sell it to a company dealing in lawn mowers, you may have a lot of customers raising a red flag. As for all of you coders who have put a lot of sweat and carpal tunnel into VB, your work isnt going by un-noticed.

Lets just wait and see what happens. Not that its much of a choice...

[MPDev]

Jelsoft was a company, too; and from the outside it would seem one that was doing very well for itself. Did you expect to be paid from the beginning when you started coding hacks? No. Why should that change with ownership of the company?

You own your "hacks"; if someone came along and bought them from you would those who posted in your hack thread deserve a piece of the action? No.

I wouldn't hold you breath expecting any form of compensation - if you thought the time you were spending was vesting yourself in the company you should have asked for something in return up front.

[LordDB]

It has to be said that if a Member is happy with the Mod/Hack presented, then he/she can make a voluntary contribution by clicking the Donation link in the authors thread!:)

All said and done, I don't know what's hardest to do in recognition of a great mod taken from a Member; post a 'Thank you' or make a financial contribution?:)

I do feel that a Mod/Hack/Style contribution should give the Coder/Designer extra benefits on this site though, as none is given!:(

Br.

[iogames]

Let me tell 'ya...

I hope NOT seeing unwanted Ads in any vB page or product...

[Floris]

While this community was established for coders to work together on projects and share coding styles/skills/etc its also a good base of coders who may need to look for work. There are also people who'd like to pay someone for their time and efforts to do work for them. This does not subtract any value from the community as a whole.
Plus, the paid services forum was created before the IB acquisition and not because of it. The vBorg resource community is a resource site for customers who wish to enhance vBulletin (and perhaps don't know how) and for people who wish to share ready-created solutions for them to make that easier. I don't see this change. This is a volunteer community. And those who wish to gain revenue from helping new customers by charging for help can offer these services on their own company web site, or use the services request forum and see if there's someone who could use a bit of help. I still prefer to share resources for free, or help for free where I can. I am not on vBulletin.org as a customer to make money. This is the wrong web site to make a living from.

[Regs]

This is the wrong web site to make a living from.I don't want to stray too far off-topic here, but Floris, I find your statement a bit hypocritical... you drive people to your vbulletin fans network where you have paid advertising banners... is this really that much different than the coders here whom choose to derive income through vbulletin-specific modifications?

Cheers,

~Regs.

[Princeton]

He's not suggesting that you can't make money ... just don't expect vbulletin.org (Jelsoft) to give YOU money.

The best way to promote your business, products, and / or services is to promote yourself.

There are many people here who are making a living by being active on vbulletin.org. How much you earn is all up to you.
If you are always negative ..
If you are always ... gimme gimme gimme..That's exactly how people will perceive you and your business.

My point is - You can make money. It's all up to you.

[Yours Truly]

There is all this mention of them having most of their websites run with vBulletin
, if this is the case i really can't see this being a bad problem.

Looking through some of their sites they are pretty big forums that have been going on for a long time, so more than likely they have a vast amount of experience with vBulletin from its early stages so they know the system as well as most of you claim to do.

So it's not really some stranger company coming in hearing that vBulletin is the leader with Bulletin Boards. And trying to force their ideas upon vBulletin not really knowing what vBulletin is about.

It is a company with a vast amount of experience in this field. So at the end of the day when vBulletin was going to be bought out (was pretty inevitable really) then this must have been one of the best companies you could have asked for to buy out vBulletin. Like i say they must have a vast amount of experience with vBulletin since most of their sites use it instead of IPB.

What i'm trying to say really is this is better than some money grabbing company coming in with no idea of what vBulletin is, how it works and what it is used for. This is a company who must have masses of experience with the product looking at the age of some of their sites with vBulletin on.

[Dutchmang]

What i'm trying to say really is this is better than some money grabbing company coming in with no idea of what vBulletin is, how it works and what it is used for.

This is one of the best comments so far in this thread. (Understanding that the original comment is around making money off vBulletin or remuneration for work contributed, so I'm the one who's off-topic.)

It's certainly positive that someone who actually understands the product is buying it; if this were, for example, a leveraged buyout firm (e.g., "money grubbing company") then it would be about squeezing the cash out of the carcass of vB until it's worthless. But I have to suspect vB wasn't attractive to such entities because they typically look for "synergies" (read: job cuts) for most of the profits, and clearly Jelsoft doesn't have dozens of redundant people to jettison.

My concern -- ok call it a sinking feeling -- is that what Jelsoft really needs is a professional development discipline to get it from "cool php hack" to "competitive commercial offering," and I was holding out hope that some real software shop would snag them for the brand recognition and market-leading installed base.

If I'm Internet Brands, I have two real options. The first is to pump a lot of investment into vB and add value, thereby creating more revenue from new/upgrading customers, per my hope above. (Note that pricing isn't a big concern, as I don't think vB has a lot of additional room here based on the existence of competitors including the free phbBB project.) The second option is for IB to optimize vBulletin for their own needs and not bother with the other customers... who will be asking for enhancements that don't benefit IB in any meaningful way. Logically this would be masked by statements to the contrary so that revenue would diminish slower, but eventually it would be clear to everyone.

And since IB is a WEB SITE AGGREGATOR, not a software developer.... well golly I don't think it's paranoia to worry that option 2 is in the cards.

Note that I'm not blaming IB or vB for doing this as each benefits. Jelsoft executes the classic software exit strategy, while IB gets complete control over one of its core software programs -- presumably at a very good price and leveraging future vB earnings. Me, I'm just doing the old chess thing and looking a move or two ahead. That's not "Chicken Little," that's just paying attention.

Dutch

[Yours Truly]

This is one of the best comments so far in this thread. (Understanding that the original comment is around making money off vBulletin or remuneration for work contributed, so I'm the one who's off-topic.)


Thank you =)

My ONLY concern is that since IB have 100's if vBulletin license's according to Wayne that they totally take vBulletin off the market giving them a massive edge over all competition by maing vBulletin only available to them, making existing customer's remove vBulletin from their sites.

I doubt this will happen but everything is a possibility at this early stage.

[Regs]

I understand what you are saying Princeton, however Floris prefaced what I quoted with talk about promoting on their own site and that this site is pretty much only about giving freely.

I suppose it is all about interpretation, maybe it is a language barrier - I don't know. I was just commenting on how I interpretted the post.

Cheers,

~Regs.

He's not suggesting that you can't make money ... just don't expect vbulletin.org (Jelsoft) to give YOU money.

The best way to promote your business, products, and / or services is to promote yourself.

There are many people here who are making a living by being active on vbulletin.org. How much you earn is all up to you.

If you are always negative ..
If you are always ... gimme gimme gimme..That's exactly how people will perceive you and your business.

My point is - You can make money. It's all up to you.

[nexialys]

This is one of the best comments so far in this thread. (Understanding that the original comment is around making money off vBulletin or remuneration for work contributed, so I'm the one who's off-topic.)
you are actually fully greatly right.. ;)

the first statement of this thread of mine was not directly to say i wanted to be paid from IB for my implication here... i actually don't care...

if someone think i posted this because i wanted to be paid, you really have a problem of language and interpretation... sorry if my level of language is too high for you then.

the goal of my discussion was brought some times in some posts, and it is regarding the actual situation of vb.ORG...

do you know a lot of real commercial companies like this IB who keep a fan-devoted website for support ?!... name some: Microsoft, Kodak, Toyota, Esso, Michelin .... how many of them have supported fan-sites where people get support for the original service ?!... none... for one reason: they want the service and support to be located in a single place, managed by their own professionals, dealing with their own internal protocols...

so if IB continue in their own path as a real project agregator, they will not keep an eye on the volunteered guys here, so one way or the other, the support here will change, and our role as coders will change...

the best thing would be that everything released as a good product comes to be bought by the company, so they can continue to support it, or they can even hire the coders with good potential... because i think this is their goal after all... financing the evolution of vB means also to have the best coders around, not only the original team...

[Yours Truly]

you are actually fully greatly right.. ;)

the first statement of this thread of mine was not directly to say i wanted to be paid from IB for my implication here... i actually don't care...

if someone think i posted this because i wanted to be paid, you really have a problem of language and interpretation... sorry if my level of language is too high for you then.

the goal of my discussion was brought some times in some posts, and it is regarding the actual situation of vb.ORG...

do you know a lot of real commercial companies like this IB who keep a fan-devoted website for support ?!... name some: Microsoft, Kodak, Toyota, Esso, Michelin .... how many of them have supported fan-sites where people get support for the original service ?!... none... for one reason: they want the service and support to be located in a single place, managed by their own professionals, dealing with their own internal protocols...

so if IB continue in their own path as a real project agregator, they will not keep an eye on the volunteered guys here, so one way or the other, the support here will change, and our role as coders will change...

the best thing would be that everything released as a good product comes to be bought by the company, so they can continue to support it, or they can even hire the coders with good potential... because i think this is their goal after all... financing the evolution of vB means also to have the best coders around, not only the original team...
He is actually right about my comment or his comment? :D

[magnus]

It's probably better to keep my mouth shut, but:

if someone think i posted this because i wanted to be paid, you really have a problem of language and interpretation... sorry if my level of language is too high for you then.

I found the irony in this too amusing to ignore.

[nexialys]

It's probably better to keep my mouth shut, but:
I found the irony in this too amusing to ignore.

It is not ironie but sarcasm... my level of language is not very high... we call this "dislexia"... sometimes, words are misplaced to express the opposite of the mean...

[Dream]

Well I thought you wanted to be paid. :p

Maybe I'm not very smart.

[Dave Hawley]

speculations are fun.. we can say anything, the future will give reason for one of these ideas....Or, put another way. Say enough things often enough, some are bound to become true ;)

[nexialys]

Well I thought you wanted to be paid. :p
Maybe I'm not very smart.

shit no, i'm far from being asking for a pay somewhere... lol

it is far from what i was talking about....

ok, read the title: Jelsoft is Sold, but not me... lol

at the opposite of wanting to be paid for my presence here, i'm more interested in the living of vb.org than my own... actually, my presence here is more for supporting my actual clients than for my own sake... i have my own company (actually, have more than one, but related to vb. i have the one in my siggy.).. and my living is no way related to vbulletin.. i could have buy Jelsoft myself long time ago just for the way the agregation was done.. lol

i'm not sold to the idea.

i think vb.org deserves more than just the aside part... there is no evidence here or there that this site will survive a long time.

Or, put another way. Say enough things often enough, some are bound to become true ;)

just this ... exactly... the more we speculate, the more one of us will have the truth.. lol
(and be credited for it!)

[SCRIPT3R]

i could have buy Jelsoft myself long time ago just for the way the agregation was done.. lol

just curious... was jelsoft for sale a long time ago? and if so, how much was it at that time?

[nexialys]

just curious... was jelsoft for sale a long time ago? and if so, how much was it at that time?

no, i don't think Jelsoft was for sale in any moment... actually it was about negociating for a value... long time ago they had a lower value, easier to buy.. lol

[El_Muerte]

I don't like the acquisition much. But this is mainly because the there is no clarity in the change in business model.
Internet Brands (IB) looks like a management only company, all owned sites are still more or less in depended. IB in turn is part of Idealab which operates on a similar scheme.
So I can only assume that Jelsoft can still operate in the same manor and have a larger company to back them up when needed.
For example this might give Jelsoft the power to do acquisitions on their own.

[Nutz]

sorry but i quit... for good...
Bye.

[bashy]

you are actually fully greatly right.. ;)

the first statement of this thread of mine was not directly to say i wanted to be paid from IB for my implication here... i actually don't care...

if someone think i posted this because i wanted to be paid, you really have a problem of language and interpretation... sorry if my level of language is too high for you then.

I must be totally stupid then, i would have put money on it, to me it sounded like
you wanted something out of your contribution to this community, it didnt sound like
you was after rep points either.... :D



the best thing would be that everything released as a good product comes to be bought by the company, so they can continue to support it, or they can even hire the coders with good potential... because i think this is their goal after all... financing the evolution of vB means also to have the best coders around, not only the original team...

Yep, i stick by my 1st opinion, i must be stupid or :confused: lol

Originally Posted by nexialys
actually, my presence here is more for supporting my actual clients than for my own sakeBut ya on about quitting, so where does that leave your clients?

Originally Posted by nexialys https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2011/11/11.gif (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=1282602#post1282602)
sorry but i quit... for good...
Bye.

PMSL

[KimmiKat]

I noticed that too. Funny thing I saw an article about IB about 2 months ago on one of those tech shows on TV. They didn't get good reviews.

This does not add up to me.... The buyer is a Web site operator not a software developer. While I always thought Jelsoft would get bought, I was hoping it would be to someone who could help professionalize their processes.... So I don't get it.

I work for one of those real companies and saw how "loosey-goosey" Jelsoft did things compared to the discipline required for real commercial software. Figured it was just a matter of getting to the point where "adult supervision" was going to be required. Nothing bad about that, just the consequence of success.

Instead they sell out to a media company whose president (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/26/technology/26ecom.html?ex=1308974400&en=f7ed5438875f822f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) looks like Willem DeFoe. Apparently the bidding never got very hot.

Not feeling good about this.... will watch this closely. There's another shoe to drop IMHO.