Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site.

[Dream]

I don't agree with this rule. And this is feedback about the site.

I don't understand why this rule is in place, if not only to hide bad staff decisions.

A transparent community is always the best. Not authoritative ones. If you think that leads to anarchy, you are dead wrong.

[nexialys]

hum, another thread in the edge of being deleted.. lol

[Guest190829]

I don't agree with this rule. And this is feedback about the site.

I don't understand why this rule is in place, if not only to hide bad staff decisions.

A transparent community is always the best. Not authoritative ones. If you think that leads to anarchy, you are dead wrong.

I'm sorry you do not like this rule, but it not likely to be amended. We have set rules and policies (which are all completely transparent at

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/info.php )

If the specific user in question has any comments or concerns about a policy, they can query the staff privately where they will get a final response. Having staff every staff action up to user debate is not proactive at all, and it is not how we run this forum.

[Dream]

On my forums, I let my members discuss every decision I make. I actually learn some things sometimes.

But be as you will.

[Adrian Schneider]

I follow the same policy... public "discussion" of why so and so was banned, or why a thread was deleted is always destructive. Also, members usually don't see the bigger picture, and tend to take the matter personally. When I do something as an admin, that is the bottom line; no ifs ands or buts.

As for this specific incident, I'll stay out of it. :cool:

[Dream]

I've been a forum administrator for 7 years, I used to be like that. I don't use brute force now unless it's really needed. As in, someone posting pr0n to be annoying.

But again, be as you will.

[Roms]

Also, members usually don't see the bigger picture, and tend to take the matter personally. When I do something as an admin, that is the bottom line; no ifs ands or buts.

As for this specific incident, I'll stay out of it. :cool:

I agree. Since my members are military personell I don't have the same issues others might. They know there was a reason, and don't feel a need to discuss every decision I make. Why should you need to second guess everything....

[Adrian Schneider]

I run a gaming site, pretty much overrun by stupidity. The other admin is a bit more laid back, but tihngs tend to get out of control quite quickly unless we put our foot (feet?) down. Of course it depends on the community.

Considering this is a business site, and not really a public discussion board, they have a public image to maintain. Having hacks here with security holes could hurt thousands of customers, so they treat it with the highest priority to 1) remove the hack, and 2) notify the customers at risk. 3) is a lower priority, and that's notifying the creator of the hack for it to be dealt with.

Sure it may hurt the creators reputation, but in all honesty that is the least of their worries. It's not like their own stuff hasn't had security holes - it's the fact that they are dealt with and fixed ASAP that is important.

edit,

Oops I said I would stay out of this one. Too late >.<

[Dream]

I agree with the mod being removed. I don't agree with not letting the coder express his frustration. Would it hurt the site's image? No it wouldn't... It hurts more deleting posts than letting people express themselves.

This community has intelligent people, it's not composed of nonsense babbling brats other communities might face. If you treat people as intelligent beings, they will turnout to be just that. Given exceptions, that are not the case on this board.

If people second guess every decision you make, let them. They might find out the reason you made the decision in the first place, if not try to explain to them. They are not always going to become a mob. If they do, be a man and deal with the mob.

Just my 2 cents.

ps: I run a gaming site too

[Roms]

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I respect your ideas and the way that you run your sites. I disagree with opening every decision to discussion. Everyone has an opinion, it's almost impossible to get things done if you need to have a poll or discussion for every little decision. Once you decide on the staff on your site they decide how it's going to be run, and what policy will be. Policy, like the rules is something that the members have signed off on if they want to be a member of your site. Every one of us run our sites differently, can you imagine the headache vBorg must have trying to enforce it?

They made the policy and in becoming members here we agreed to follow it.

[RedTyger]

I run a gaming site, pretty much overrun by stupidity.

Haha! Boy does that ever ring true for gaming forums. :D




Considering this is a business site, and not really a public discussion board, they have a public image to maintain. Having hacks here with security holes could hurt thousands of customers, so they treat it with the highest priority to 1) remove the hack, and 2) notify the customers at risk. 3) is a lower priority, and that's notifying the creator of the hack for it to be dealt with.

Normally I wouldn't put my oar in, a person's forum is their own and they can run it how they like. But since this appears to be open for discussion I'll expand on what I said in the locked thread.

vBulletin.org when finding a vulnerability:
- instantly remove the software
- notify all the customers and then allow the author to organise a fix and issue an update to the software
- when it's done the software back in circulation. It could be done at any speed so I can't comment.

vBulletin.com when finding a vulnerability:
- Do Jelsoft remove the vulnerable versions until a fix is released? I don't know.
- organise a fix and issue an update to the software, usually within a day or so
- notify all the customers when it's done, anywhere between instantly via an announcement and the AdminCP message to several days via email.

Well, I'm hoping the point is made there.

[Michael Biddle]

vBulletin.com when finding a vulnerability:
- Do Jelsoft remove the vulnerable versions until a fix is released? I don't know.

I do not think the announce until its fixed already.

[Dismounted]

Yea, vB.com don't announce there's any problems until a fix is out. It's better that way, as script kiddies don't catch wind of it.

[The Geek]

Isn't this post ironic? It is a discussion about not allowing discussions on the very topic it is discussing :D

I would hope that constructive threads regarding current policies would be welcomed with open arms (as I am sure all of us do). But threads reacting to specific incidents where policies were enforced only do more harm than good.

[RedTyger]

Yea, vB.com don't announce there's any problems until a fix is out. It's better that way, as script kiddies don't catch wind of it.

That wasn't what I was getting at, whether it's better or worse is up to the individual. Both have their pros and cons.

But if vBulletin.org say that this is the minimally acceptable way of dealing with vulnerabilities then it makes Jelsoft look rather slack and raises questions about why coders here should be subject to stricter rules than they are.

And if you subsribe to the Jelsoft method then it raises questions about why vBulletin.org are laying out such hardass smackdown on the coders.

I appreciate that in Jelsoft's case you are guaranteed to get a very swift fix which is not true of coders here, but surely it's only fair to at least offer them the opportunity? It would seem reasonable to me that we should be subject to the same standards as Jelsoft, otherwise as I say, questions are raised.

[Paul M]

I don't agree with this rule. And this is feedback about the site.

Actually, you agreed with it when you joined. ;)


Almost every forum I know has such a rule - (i.e. Staff decisions are final, no public discussion of them will be entered into).


Equally, there are many laws I don's agree with, but I still have to abide by them or face the consequences - this is just the same. :)

[cyberphr]

This rule should stay. And I believe those whom wrote the TOS here have more experience in these fields than almost all of the members.

[Dream]

Actually, you agreed with it when you joined. ;)

I would never agree to such a rule *shakes fist*

May you all see the light one day. I pray for your souls.

[nexialys]

actually we did not agree to these rules, because they are not in the welcome rules but in a specific section of the site...

and i was registered here even before these rules were written...

[Paul M]

Rule 1 is all that we actually require if you boil it down :D

1. Staff decisions are final. Ultimately, staff has complete discretion over what is and is not acceptable on the site.


However we do list a lot of things specifically to aid you.


You might also note ;
Members of VBULLETIN.ORG are responsible for reviewing VBULLETIN.ORG General Site Rules. VBULLETIN.ORG reserves the right to modify General Site Rules at any time. Your continued use of the VBULLETIN.ORG constitutes your consent to such changes.

:)

[hambil]

Actually, you agreed with it when you joined. ;)


Almost every forum I know has such a rule - (i.e. Staff decisions are final, no public discussion of them will be entered into).


Equally, there are many laws I don's agree with, but I still have to abide by them or face the consequences - this is just the same. :)
Just the same, if you add in being forbidden to discuss the law, or have a public trial, or a public appeal, or get a vote on the law or the law makers in the first place. I guess it depends on where you are from. I'm sure vBulletin.org has at least some members from third world dictatorships...

[nexialys]

the only way you can control that the members agree to written rules on a site like this one, is when you rewrite them, you have to reset everybody's agreement and force them to agree again to the new rules... -- if i remember right, someone wrote a code for that kind of process long time ago...

if you do not force people to agree to NEW rules, you can't tell we agreed to them...

[stinger2]

the only way you can control that the members agree to written rules on a site like this one, is when you rewrite them, you have to reset everybody's agreement and force them to agree again to the new rules... -- if i remember right, someone wrote a code for that kind of process long time ago...

if you do not force people to agree to NEW rules, you can't tell we agreed to them...


https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=122998



:):D:up:

[Chris M]

I don't agree with this rule. And this is feedback about the site.

I don't understand why this rule is in place, if not only to hide bad staff decisions.

A transparent community is always the best. Not authoritative ones. If you think that leads to anarchy, you are dead wrong.
From past experience both as a user and as a staff member on this site, allowing discussions about decisions made by staff members only leads to trouble...

the only way you can control that the members agree to written rules on a site like this one, is when you rewrite them, you have to reset everybody's agreement and force them to agree again to the new rules... -- if i remember right, someone wrote a code for that kind of process long time ago...

if you do not force people to agree to NEW rules, you can't tell we agreed to them...
What Paul M posted up is entirely accurate - If the welcoming rules stipulate that vB.org reserves the right to modify the rules, then it is your responsibility as a user to monitor and review the rules to ensure that you are following them...

Chris

[cyberphr]

the only way you can control that the members agree to written rules on a site like this one, is when you rewrite them, you have to reset everybody's agreement and force them to agree again to the new rules... -- if i remember right, someone wrote a code for that kind of process long time ago...

if you do not force people to agree to NEW rules, you can't tell we agreed to them...

Wrong. By registering, you agree to the rules. If you do not agree, you do not register.

For example; If someone were to sue a forum for a ban they see as unfair, it would be rather easy for the forum to counter-sue for the waste of time and obviousness the user did not read the rules. :p

[hambil]

What Paul M posted up is entirely accurate - If the welcoming rules stipulate that vB.org reserves the right to modify the rules, then it is your responsibility as a user to monitor and review the rules to ensure that you are following them...
This is not an issue or right or wrong, or responsibility. It's a common sense issue of polite conduct. If a rule change takes place (which it did) that effects members on the board (in this case coders) common sense says everyone benefits from making that rule change as visible as possible.

[kall]

On the subject of 'rules', many of the rules that used to be in plain english and plain sight were removed when the site was 'upgraded' to the current style, and were replaced by the blanket 'All staff decisions are final' one.

Personally, I preferred to know when I was straying. To cop a ban/infraction/demotion (;)) because you thought you were following an old rule is pretty sad.