And again a mod is gone

[masterme]

Is it not possible to make some rules for the coders?
No disresprect to the coders in general, but it irritates me big time when I install a mod and ask for support, the mod is deleted without notice.
I am very gratefull for the things coders make, but why not make a rule that when a mod is posted, it must kept here.
I understand if a coder does not want to give support anymore or whatever, but what is the use to delete it and the replys from others?

I do not think this is nice to the people who use the mods and take time to help others. Also, a topic is always handy to look back if you have a question, most of the time the answer has been given already by an other member.

I asked this before, but now it happend again with another portalmod which I could not get it to work and now I am left alone with it.
I do not think it must be allowed to remove them, they must think that before they post it.
Ok, I can understand for sertain reasons a mod must be taken out of roulation, but just take the download away, not the topic with its helpfull stuff.
Come on people, there are members who are using your good work. Don't dump them like that.

[Shazz]

Another main reason is releasing it without permission as in add-on or refixed to someone elses release

[hambil]

It makes no sense to remove a mod. I can assure you I will never remove mine. You can mark them as unsupported and basically abandon them (as I did with vbPluginOrder). There is simply no reason I can think of to remove a mod (other than the moderators and admins doing it because it breaks rules).

[RedTyger]

A vulnerability in an unsupported modification? Wanting to move support to another location? It's their property and work, they can do as they please with it whether or not you agree. But I'd rather have some kind of notice left at a minimum that something has been removed.

[magnus]

While I agree that deleting a mod isn't necessarily in the best interest of the community, it is afterall the intellectual property of the author -- whom can do as he/she pleases. Unfortunately, it's a grey area for the vBorg staff -- because if they start placing restrictions on what authors can and cannot do, they're risking pushing away the force that keeps the site up in the first place.

It's a catch 22.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would never delete a modification -- however, if vBorg started telling me what I can and cannot do with my released work, I would think twice about releasing my work to the community.

On a related note -- I could see deleting the modification. But why the replies? /shrug

[Paul M]

I'm not really sure what mod you are referring to, but I do know that Atakan KOC asked for all his mods to be removed today. If an author asks for their mods to be removed then we will do so - they "own" the work and it is their choice.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Actually Paul, that is a misunderstanding. He requested some of his work to be removed, and by a mistake/misunderstanding all where removed. I spend 2 hours yesterday on a mobile connection moving them all back again.

[Paul M]

Oh yes, I see a few have returned.

[Cap'n Steve]

A coder should be able to remove his files (although that would make him a jerk), but the mod threads should never be deleted.

[pipin]

A coder should be able to remove his files (although that would make him a jerk), but the mod threads should never be deleted.

sure. but at least an info should be left. something like: mod removed by coder ...

[Distance]

If I ever wished to remove anything I would be shocked to get a reply saying they will not remove my work.

However this is a good thread to bring up the problem with simply removing vulnerabilities.

If a vulnerability is found you simply remove the thread. I feel this is not the way to go as this will confuse users and the others won't know of the exploit leaving many forums hackable.

I feel the way to go is remove the download and instruction parts to the thread, add a big note at the bottom and close the thread.

If you wish have the thread url just redirecting to a vulnerability error page.

Also when you remove a modification users have no idea what they uploaded or what changes they made to install it meaning they have no idea how to uninstall!!

I feel this is also a big problem. The ideal thing to do would be to make something that would tell them how to uninstall and a list of the files. Also a mail of all the installs telling them of the exploit.

Feedback?

Distance

[Marco van Herwaarden]

We already do email all members that have clicked Install if a vulnerability is found.

You say that you want us to:
A) Remove the download
B) "when you remove a modification users have no idea what they uploaded or what changes they made "

Is that not he same result?

[Talisman]

While I agree that the mod, itself, belongs to the author (always) and that work can be withdrawn at his or her choosing... that ownership should not extend to everyone else's posts submitted to the related support thread...... which also becomes a discussion thread of it's own. The rest of "our" posts either belong to us or to the vBulletin.org site, depending on whatever it says in the terms for this site.

On another issue... what good does it do any of us if it's okay for someone to release a hack one day and then wipe out the entire thread whenever they want to? Isn't it in our better interest as a hacking community to encourage the coders willing to leave behind their body of work if they decide they don't want to keep doing it ... and be less encouraging to those who think it's okay to yank out chunks of our hack forum if they get mad at someone and decide they want nothing more to do with this place?

[Distance]

We already do email all members that have clicked Install if a vulnerability is found.

You say that you want us to:
A) Remove the download
B) "when you remove a modification users have no idea what they uploaded or what changes they made "

Is that not he same result?

Marco, if a vulnerability is found you obviously need to remove the download.

However a list should be replaced there (as said a) on the files that was uploaded and the install instructions.

Distance

[Paul M]

ATM any removed modifications go to a private "Graveyard" that only staff have access to.

However, we are looking at the possibility of a public archive where some could be moved to, where you would still be able to read the threads, but not access the downloads.

[Reeve of shinra]

I understand this is a tricky issue but I firmly believe that its against the best interests of the community if modifications can be arbitrarily removed.

Maybe there should be a "VB modification license" which modifactions posted here should be released under. The license can hopefully take into consideration many of these sticking points that keep occurring.

... and thats my 2 cents.

[Distance]

However, we are looking at the possibility of a public archive where some could be moved to, where you would still be able to read the threads, but not access the downloads.

Thank you! :)

[d8tabyte]

While I agree that the mod, itself, belongs to the author (always) and that work can be withdrawn at his or her choosing... that ownership should not extend to everyone else's posts submitted to the related support thread...... which also becomes a discussion thread of it's own. The rest of "our" posts either belong to us or to the vBulletin.org site, depending on whatever it says in the terms for this site.


Good point here

[Princeton]

In an idea world, leaving the information open to the public is a good choice.

HOWEVER

While this is helpful, it can also put our members (installers) at risk. For example, a scrupulous hacker can come along .. deduce who has vulnerable modification installed and cause havoc.

[d8tabyte]

Couldn't they just do that by looking through the countless threads that say "omg this hack was removed because of a vulnerability!?"

Removing the hundreds of support posts under a mod won't make the mod any more secure - remove the files, lock the thread with a final post stating the mod was removed due to vulnerability and all future support is ceased until a secure version can be released

just my opinion

[cashpath]

This is just a thought.. but wouldn't some sort of user agreement along these lines solve this problem.

"Author agrees any mod posted to vb.org will remain on vb.org and will not be removed. Author also agrees that if the hack is not being supported by the author and is found to have vulnerabilities, vb.org will allow other authors to fix those vulnerabilities in the code and re-release with no other modifications".

You could go on to allow the author to checkbox if they would like to allow thier code to become open source in the event they abandon it for more than a period of xx days. Now obviously some Authors might not check this box but some would.

Is this not something that could be done? (Of course this won't help in the case of vbbux/vbplaza, but it could save future similar problems)

Oh.. one last thing... while I understand not POSTING the vulnerabilities found for everyone to see. Could vb.org at least send in the email sent to all people who have the hack installed exactly what the vulnerabilities are?

[Princeton]

it's ok if you want to announce that you have the "vulnerable mod" installed ... we will never stop you or anyone else who wants to do that..

I would prefer to help those who are unaware of such issues.

[d8tabyte]

I see where you are coming from - I guess another way to go about it would be to only allow people who have installed that hack to have viewing permission on it. You can set it so once locked, the install button is removed thus preventing any future installs and it becomes only viewable to those that installed the hack (I don't know if it is possible, I am merely throwing out ideas)

[hambil]

It makes no sense to remove a mod. I can assure you I will never remove mine. You can mark them as unsupported and basically abandon them (as I did with vbPluginOrder). There is simply no reason I can think of to remove a mod (other than the moderators and admins doing it because it breaks rules).
Okay, I stand corrected.

The problem stems from a couple of issues. One, you cannot disable a mod. If you remove the main file vb.org will remove the mod. So if a mod presents a security risk and you don't feel like fixing it, then having it removed is your only real option.

Two, you can't transfer a mod or even merge mod threads. So, if I turn over a mod to another developer they must start a new thread. At that point having two threads for the same mod becomes problematic.

[nexialys]

Two, you can't transfer a mod or even merge mod threads. So, if I turn over a mod to another developer they must start a new thread. At that point having two threads for the same mod becomes problematic.

That's the exact reason why my products were deleted from the database yesterday...

i wanted the guys up here taking over the work i've done with the Points system, and as it would be irrelevant to have me as the thread owner then, i decided that the coders who take over will have to manage their own threads... ;)

good luck guys!

[Xplorer4x4]

Two, you can't transfer a mod or even merge mod threads. So, if I turn over a mod to another developer they must start a new thread. At that point having two threads for the same mod becomes problematic.

Not really so long as the old thread gets locked. Then the old thread is there with any fixes and such but the new thread can take over support.

[Cap'n Steve]

Exactly. I took over a mod and the original author just changed the description in his thread to say that development has continued in the new thread.

[FreshFroot]

WHy don't you guys just leave the thread up.. but leave it as Mod was removed... that way we know "what" happent...

[nexialys]

WHy don't you guys just leave the thread up.. but leave it as Mod was removed... that way we know "what" happent...

mainly because vb.org is not our site, so we can't always make it our way...

[insolentmuse]

I'd rather not see a bunch of threads where the mod was removed, especially when searching for something.

It is already incredibly frustrating to finally find a mod/addon that I've been searching for and discover 500 bugs and the modder has disappeared. I can only imagine if a bunch of removed mods started popping up in searches too. Ugh.

I really don't have a problem with something being removed completely. I mean, what if someone starts out small, learning as they go and eventually decide to turn a hack into a more robust product and want to go out on their own? Why leave the old free version with no support or updates if everything is going to be handled offsite? I think it's more responsible to take it down.

2c

[Paul M]

If you recall back about a month, we did say that we were looking at a public archive where some old (currently removed) mods could go. This is still in progress. :)

[rjmjr69]

A coder should be able to remove his files (although that would make him a jerk), but the mod threads should never be deleted.


Well I started a whole new thread with this subject not noticing this one. Thanks to the staff member who alerted me. here is what I posted. I agree with Cap. Although the mod is the coders property what the members post in the thread is not. No one should be deleting a users content without some sort of notice.

I'm really upset to see some really good coders leave recently due to "INSIDE" squabbles with the staff. Seems to be a pattern starting to develop. This is a free community that from the short time I've been here has been very pleasant aside from the straglers who come in to rouse people up.

Its just sad to see good people be run off due to a very FEW other members of the board as well as the staff.
What really gets me about the most recent I've discovered is Mr. Chad and since he has opted to not allow his worked to be posted here anymore WHOLE threads are now gone They were not even saved in the Archives? Besides his files being taken down why would anyone take down the rest of the thread some with 100's of replies from members helping one another to fix things get stuff in order. Share their findings and other small stuff that really is not the thread authors property nor his/her right to have removed.
I am missing dozens of posts WITHOUT my being asked If I wish to have them removed or before being given the chance to copy my data. This is not good and leaves me with a very sour taste in the finger tips.
I'm having troubles with a hack installed that I KNOW FOR FACT is solved in one of the DELETED threads............. This is so annoying. Is there a way to get my information back

Some rules about deleting threads and post's should be reconsidered. Why delete the uninvolved persons data?

Anyone else pissed about these happenings lately?

[Oblivion Knight]

I no longer code nor support previous modifications out of choice, not due to forum politics.

From what I've been hearing, several coders have left and removed their work since I was active here.. It's a sad state indeed, and is something that I never really expected to happen. vBulletin.org used to be all about coders exploring new ideas and helping each other out, coming up with some amazingly useful tools.

What happened? =\

[Smoothie]

I guess I'm not understanding. Why are these "coders" leaving here? Is there some hidden reason why?

[nexialys]

I guess I'm not understanding. Why are these "coders" leaving here? Is there some hidden reason why?

egos, big heads, internal fights... everything can be related to these quit...

[Luky]

Please dont be mad at me when i say this, but vbulletin.org is nothing at all without its coders! I think the coders should come at the front of the line and get to have more say in what they want, there is honestly not much stopping them from going to another site or making their own, maby even stop modding all together.

[rjmjr69]

So when are these links going to appear. And exactly where are they going to be placed? Ive been looking and have not found anything yet