Threads Ignored?

[imported_infitech]

90% or more – im not sure of the exact %age of the threads I’ve started have been ignored. I was just wondering if anyone else had the same issue… I mean – I’ve had to revert my forums to pretty much the defaults because of this. 50 % of the problems – ive had to resolve on my own. Anyone else?

[Kirk Y]

Instead of giving you the "This is a free website, whose members provide support to vBulletin Users in their own free time and receive little, if anything, in return" speech, I'll just tell you that you're not alone in your threads being left unanswered - in fact, I've got a thread open that needs an answer too; you've just got to be patient.

On the brightside, you're learning how vBulletin works as you fix your problems by yourself -- at some point, you won't need to ask for help. :)

[Paul M]

The simple fact is that the number of people asking questions far exceeds the number of people able to answer them. If someone sees a question they are able to answer, then generally they do, we cannot ask for any more than this. :)

[Freesteyelz]

1. An "About" page or an insert - a statement of some sort that is readily visible (e.g., FAQs, forum descriptions, homepage) - indicating that this community is maintained by volunteers may help. *These are just some suggestions.

2. Bearing the "vBulletin" name, vB customers and guests may easily mistaken this site AS an official vBulletin site. From my observation it seems while people quickly come to understand that the mods released here are offered voluntarily, they view the support forums as sections of the site to get answers to their questions (modding and standard). Both newcomers and community veterans get frustrated with the lack of replies, let alone answers to their questions.

From the (outer) appearance, vB.org looks commercial. That can be a good thing. Though, until there's clarification of what this site is all about, people will mistaken this site for something else and problems will continue to resurface.


*Mark my 1000th post here. :)

[Kirk Y]

I try to offer help whenever I can, but I'm not Superman -- even though I may have dressed up as him for Halloween.

*On a side note, Firefox caught a typo for me! Gotta love 2.0! :)

[harmor19]

I only help people when I'm going to ask for help myself. Since I don't need help I haven't really helped anyone.

[Freesteyelz]

With your talents, Harmor, I'm sure many community members can benefit from your help; even if you're in a position where you don't need the help. One day, those members may remember your generosity and in turn help others if they're able to. Never know...

[MRGTB]

I have to agree with the thread starter here. I've noticed when asking for help on this site recently over the last few months with coding stuff. Lots of post go totally un-answered. I know you can't expect an answer to everything you post. But considering the size of the site and the members here, I do find it a little unhelpful most of the time if I was to be totally honest. And the ratio of un-answered posts on coding problems is too high really.

I kind of expected better from a site so huge with so many members who have good coding skillz. I don't know what this site was like 3 years ago. But I hear it was much more helpful then and a better place to be. Becuase of all this, I refuse to install a hack now unless I feel I can fix things myself in it without needing help. Which usually means installing very few and very simple hacks.

I've all but given up now asking for help here these days, and don't come as often as I used to anymore (which used to be daily).

[Adrian Schneider]

I think the problem lies in the number of coders vs the number of non-coders... you can't expect less than 10% of the community to take care of the other 90%.

[imported_infitech]

ok here is the thing.... if vbulletin.org doesnt want to be looked at as an "official" support site - i dont think vbulletin.com should link to u guys as the "official" hack/mod site.

[Paul M]

I don't see any reason why not, Jelsoft have always made it clear that they do not support 3rd party add-ons.

[Freesteyelz]

With respect to you, Paul, I think imported_infitech brings up a valid (but not new) point.

[Cap'n Steve]

It's one thing to not officially support this site, but they really should put some work or money into it. It has all the drawbacks of an official site (lots of traffic) but none of the benefits.

[imported_infitech]

It has all the drawbacks of an official site (lots of traffic) but none of the benefits.
I tottaly agree

[Razasharp]

To be honest I don't see why they don't hire one full time php coder as part of (the start) of a help team. And then people can put requests in for _simple_ hacks which this coder can do in turn. They can be part of the official vB catalogue. I'm not an experienced coder but I think a full time staff member could produce at least one simple hack per day.

This is afterall a business for Jelsoft and yes they do make money out of it.

I have always thought of this is an official Jelsoft site, they own it, and they ultimately decide what goes on here, and I've never really been fussed on the way it is 'cut-off' from vb.com (when in fact it is part of the same company).

[Kirk Y]

The coders here already produce at least 1 modification per day. On any given day, you can look at the Latest Releases column on the Portal and you'll see something new - I'd almost be willing to guarantee it.

[Razasharp]

I am thinking more along the lines of hacks that are requested as opposed to hacks which are released that you can take or leave.

[Kirk Y]

The hacks the users request on these forums are mostly anything but simple.

[Razasharp]

Well maybe that's what needs doing then..?

Or maybe a bunch of possible hacks can be thought of and people vote on which ones get done first?

There's bound to be loads of things we as a community can use a full-time, vb-approved coder for :p

[Freesteyelz]

Let's play devils advocate :D...

If the staff of vB.org is paid, who will be the ones who'll pay them? If it's Jelsoft, it'll place the company in an awkward (and legal) position. By that I mean Jelsoft will then be obligated to support the content that are posted here at vB.org.

Another huge factor is the econimical side. Heck, with paid employees come benefits, insurance, work compensation and so forth. Employee liability = $$$.

The way it is now, Jelsoft can legally wipe their hands clean from vB.org; but the company is pushing it. Here's why. They have (paid) staff members who are the bridge to vB.org. From my understanding they support the internal structure and have helped in the past whenever problems arised. In a way, and in the eyes of many vB community members, Jelsoft supports vB.org.

This is why I've made some suggestions on post #4.

[da420]

To be honest I don't see why they don't hire one full time php coder as part of (the start) of a help team. And then people can put requests in for _simple_ hacks which this coder can do in turn. They can be part of the official vB catalogue. I'm not an experienced coder but I think a full time staff member could produce at least one simple hack per day.


I don't like this. Thats the next step to closing the code and selling all these add-ons as their product as add-on products rather than open free add on products. If they have to hire someone they have to charge something for this service they have to make that money back somehow. I do not think vBulletin will or should do this. I don't mind things the way they are now, if you have a hack that you really want or need coded and can't get it here, maybe try to inquire about it at rentacoder.com or something.

As far as threads and posts being ignored. It's a very valid point that A) this is not vbulletin's official support site B) Everyone on here is providing their service, knowledge, and time for free. C) the sheer number of non-coders out number those that are not coders therefore not all questions will get answered as quickly as desired, or necisarily at all.

Things can be done, and no system is going to be perfect, all you can do is strive for the best solution for the community. I enjoy coming to this site and getting hacks and picking up neat new things for my forum, and my own knowledge.

[Razasharp]

If the staff of vB.org is paid, who will be the ones who'll pay them? If it's Jelsoft, it'll place the company in an awkward (and legal) position. By that I mean Jelsoft will then be obligated to support the content that are posted here at vB.org.

If they write a hack and release it then I'm sure it would be up to standard. With regards to supporting those official hacks, it would be no different to how things are done on vb.com - the staff get to it in turn, but in this case it will be the paid staff doing so.

Thats the next step to closing the code and selling all these add-ons as their product as add-on products rather than open free add on products. If they have to hire someone they have to charge something for this service they have to make that money back somehow.

I doubt they would sell minor hacks, but if they did sell other larger ones, then I'd be glad they were available at a small cost than not at all ;)

With regards to the wages of just one full-time php coder for vB.org, I'm pretty sure they can afford it - remember they are a business making money, this isn't open source we're talking about.

[Freesteyelz]

@Razasharp: I was outlining the legalities of the argument. Now for the practical aspect...

If they write a hack and release it then I'm sure it would be up to standard. With regards to supporting those official hacks, it would be no different to how things are done on vb.com - the staff get to it in turn, but in this case it will be the paid staff doing so.


Then what's the sense of having vB.org? :D

[da420]

I doubt they would sell minor hacks, but if they did sell other larger ones, then I'd be glad they were available at a small cost than not at all ;)

With regards to the wages of just one full-time php coder for vB.org, I'm pretty sure they can afford it - remember they are a business making money, this isn't open source we're talking about.

Why not sell minor hacks? If you need a hack in particular there are many coders that are willing to assist for the right price, and that's what you have to find.

We are talking about open source. The code is open for everyone to view and has nothing with it being free or providing a paid for product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

Yes, they are a business, like all businesses they are out to make money. If their costs go up, either prices will go up, or they will charge for their services. I do not see Jelsoft providing a php coder a wage to support the hacks on this website or providing any type of free hack service at all. My .02 cents anyways.

[Razasharp]

@Razasharp:Then what's the sense of having vB.org? :D

It will still be the same, but there will be this additional aspect to it :)

Probably to begin with there could be just one coder, and if so, it will be a first come first serve type basis - if it takes off and makes vB even more popular (because people can get this new stuff) then maybe Jelsoft will add more coders.

At the end of the day, anything that makes the customers happy is helping strengthen the products position in the market. Which of course means more sales more profit for JS.

Why not sell minor hacks? If you need a hack in particular there are many coders that are willing to assist for the right price, and that's what you have to find.

If people want reliable hacks they would prefer offical code - I know I would, and from experience, the last two hacks I installed didn't work properly so, some might say it's a bit miss and hit with hacks that people have mainly written for themselves but decided to share - which of course everyone is grateful for but beggers can't be choosers right?. Obviously there are some exceptions but again, it's a chancing it if a) they actually work or b) u hope they won't mess things up on your particular set-up.

Yes, they are a business, like all businesses they are out to make money. If their costs go up, either prices will go up, or they will charge for their services. I do not see Jelsoft providing a php coder a wage to support the hacks on this website or providing any type of free hack service at all. My .02 cents anyways.

Yes I talking about them as a business as opposed to open source projects like phpBB which you can download for free.

I don't see why it should be assumed that because a product or service is improved that the cost to the customer is automatically increased. If a company is already making enough money to improve it's service in such a manner they don't need to charge more just because.

[Freesteyelz]

It will still be the same, but there will be this additional aspect to it :)

Probably to begin with there could be just one coder, and if so, it will be a first come first serve type basis - if it takes off and makes vB even more popular (because people can get this new stuff) then maybe Jelsoft will add more coders.

At the end of the day, anything that makes the customers happy is helping strengthen the products position in the market. Which of course means more sales more profit for JS.


Anything outside the core of vB will be a risk to the main product (the forum software). Anything official would possibly be a feature of vB; and not an extension to or a separate product.

[MRGTB]

Some ideas are taken from here and introduced as main products into the core of vbulletin though. Take the RSS option in vBulletin now, that was originally a hack posted here.

[Razasharp]

Anything outside the core of vB will be a risk to the main product (the forum software).

How would it be a risk?

Anything official would possibly be a feature of vB; and not an extension to or a separate product.

Why not? Why can't there be 'official' hacks? These could be popular (by demand) hacks that don't nesc have to be part of the main script.. but there in official status should users want them. Say in an offical hacks catalogue :)

Try looking at how things can be done, rather than, how they cannot ;)

Some ideas are taken from here and introduced as main products into the core of vbulletin though. Take the RSS option in vBulletin now, that was originally a hack posted here.

In addition, I think it opens up avenues for hackers like you guys who may one day be taken on/rewarded for your work too. I definately think Jelsoft needs to be spending more money here at .org - it really is one of their most important and biggest assets....

[Freesteyelz]

How would it be a risk?


More code = higher risk



Try looking at how things can be done, rather than, how they cannot ;)


My (future-telling) reply to that...

Let's play devils advocate :D...


*Cough* :)

[Cap'n Steve]

If the staff of vB.org is paid, who will be the ones who'll pay them? If it's Jelsoft, it'll place the company in an awkward (and legal) position. By that I mean Jelsoft will then be obligated to support the content that are posted here at vB.org.

Another huge factor is the econimical side. Heck, with paid employees come benefits, insurance, work compensation and so forth. Employee liability = $$$.

What? Why would they be forced to support something just because they paid for it? And why would they have to offer insurance to someone they commisioned to write some stuff? Companies hire consultants to do extra work all the time. Also, they host this site along with the official one so they're already technically paying for it.

[Freesteyelz]

What? Why would they be forced to support something just because they paid for it? And why would they have to offer insurance to someone they commisioned to write some stuff? Companies hire consultants to do extra work all the time.

I was referring to (hired) staff, not consultants. I thought that was obvious but I guess not. Next time I'll post with more clarity.

Also, they host this site along with the official one so they're already technically paying for it.

vBulletin (as far as I know) is paying for the site's upkeep/maintanence, not the hacks. Unless you know something that I don't, vB.org is not a commercial site and authors of mods that were submitted here have not received a dime.

[Cap'n Steve]

I'm just saying Jelsoft can support whatever they want. There's no law saying "you contributed to this project, you have to support it".

[Freesteyelz]

/me scratches head in disbelief...

We're not on the same page, Cap'n Steve. You continue to argue points that I have not made.

[LaCN]

This is a free site, with free mods/hacks.
unlike those companies that sell hacks, they don't have payed staff to take care of things.

If alot of people want to have more help, what abt small fee per download.
Say.. 2$ paypal-donation per download.
Where of 50% could go to the hack-maker, if (s)he whishes.

[ForumDog]

Officially supporting hacks makes no sense on any level that I can think of. But that's not to say that they couldn't put some serious professional Jelsoft-employed development into the .org site itself. They will be fully aware that the community contributions of third party developers increases their sales and makes them more money, how much I couldn't guess but I'll bet it's a figure that wouldn't be sneezed at. I'm sure the costs of running this site are not insubstantial but is that enough?

I wonder.

As for threads going unanswered, people do their best. I've had some answered some not, my last by an Admin no less on an entirely trivial coding question. Ultimately there's for more requests for help than answers given because the expertise can't keep up with inexpertise (not to mention that it's a good deal easier to ask a question than answer it ;)) and there's no real way to avoid that. Best thing you can do is remember that you get what you paid for and be grateful that there is such a resource as this forum and the internet in general.

[Cap'n Steve]

We're not on the same page, Cap'n Steve. You continue to argue points that I have not made.

Then explain to me what this means:

By that I mean Jelsoft will then be obligated to support the content that are posted here at vB.org.

[Freesteyelz]

Rather than taking my posts out of context quote them in its entirety; only then will it make sense.

[Cap'n Steve]

I reread it and I'm still not seeing it. Regardless of whether Jelsoft pays hack authors, moderators, or whoever, they still have no obligation to support hacks. They don't even have to support vBulletin if they don't feel like it.

[Freesteyelz]

/me is tired...

1. Jelsoft is obligated to vBulletin, their staff members, investors (if applicable) and any other business-related associates until they relinquish ownership of the company or product.

2. Hired (in-house staff) is different than hired consultants (third-party); here's where you've been mixing the two. I've been referring to the former; you, the latter. In business there are protocols and laws to follow. I've listed a few in post #20.

[criscokid]

If alot of people want to have more help, what abt small fee per download.
Say.. 2$ paypal-donation per download.
Where of 50% could go to the hack-maker, if (s)he whishes.
A good idea and afforadable to most people. The other option would be to make some of the forums subscription based and charge a low fee of $12 or $24 a year - banking on the hope that a lot of people will go for this as it's really affordable they'll hopefully have more than enough money to take on another person that would be able to answer our forum posts and maybe take on a bit of coding.

[Zachery]

The simple way to get less threads ignored, instead of trying to figure out subscriptions, and hiring more people, would be to just help out where you can, and if you cant, learn untill you can.

[criscokid]

be able to answer our forum posts and maybe take on a bit of coding.
What Zachery says is true... in my experience it's the more complicated questions that sometimes go ignored though so we do need more knowledgeable people on here.

[imported_infitech]

What Zachery says is true... in my experience it's the more complicated questions that sometimes go ignored though so we do need more knowledgeable people on here.
this is true....
i can sometimes KNOW - can tell - even before im done posting a thread that it's going to be ignored based on how complicated my question is....

[Zachery]

More complicated questions, generally will get a response if you've shown some sort of initiative.

I've tried x y z and its not doing what I wanted, or I thought I' could do it this way etc.

People posting for someone else to do everthing they want gets the least ammount of responses.

[tgreer]

This is an old discussion, and I doubt it will ever be resolved. JelSoft directs everyone seeking help with customizing their forum, to this site. Yet this site is overwhelmingly focused on hacks/hackers, rather than general programming help and assistance. In fact, the discussions that would be most beneficial to those wanting general coding support is hidden from the general user. The price of admission is, of course, publishing a hack: quite the insular, protectionist little circle.

I have no problem if this site wants to be "Hack Central", but JelSoft shouldn't direct people here for general customization questions. Too many users are being bounced from here to vBulletin.com, and from there back to here.

There are several vBulletin related "coding" forums, but they have become obsessed with and overwhelmed by SEO, AdSense, forum promotion topics, or they try to be .org clones with their own "hacks". They all recycle the same topics and even the same userbase endlessly.

The forum owner interested in learning the software and coding their own modifications is pretty much left to learn on their own. That's not a bad thing, of course, but JelSoft is setting the wrong expectations about the role of .org.

[Calibre_k]

these guys are not robots be patient. you will get your answer when someone is free.

[Lionel]

From my experience here since 2001, the more you are specific in your request for help, the faster you get an answer.

Myself I can't really complained. Everything that I now, I learned from other people here and other forums. Marco for example has been instrumental in helping me understand arrays in coding. Paul M and many others have helped me also.

[oz_moses]

Perhaps a lot of threads go unanswered because they are posted in the wrong thread. If someone has a question about a hack and starts a new thread it's unlikely that the author or any users of said hack who have subscribed to the release thread will read the question.

For example if the following threads had been posted in the vbookie thread, then they would have got support.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=127408
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=131075
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=124185
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=129721
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=126491
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=129007
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=126733
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=126219

Or then again they may not have gotten support as if they were already in the vbookie thread they could have used the 'Search this thread' option and read the results instantly!