+ Modification Database :Please *VOTE*POLL+

[bigmonay2k]

First I do appreciate the work that goes into the site to keep it great. However .I know I am not the only who dont like this....Maybe if we vbulletin community come together and vote on it...they might change it back,now all the hacks are together is a mess..,I am lost with this system; I like when the Plugin forum was by itself..all the forum categorising..if you like the way it is now its fine also, you can vote...

Thank you for your cooperation and support!


ps:
I am asking if admin or mod can merge this thread (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=118628)with the poll thanks again, love U

[tnguy3n]

Frankly, I dislike the currently Hack Database. It's hard to navigate and finding stuffs.
vB.org coding team could have done better. ;)

[Ntfu2]

im sure they'll change it right back based on this poll :roll:


But i voted change it anyway :D

[The Chief]

im sure they'll change it right back based on this poll :roll:


But i voted change it anyway :D
haha, yes, unfortunaetly, same :)

[Roms]

^ Same... it's a pain.. :(

[Paul M]

There is no need for a poll, we are aware that lumping them all together has not proven to be ideal, and will be looking at ways to improve it prior to the actual hacks database being live. :)

[Ntfu2]

Cool :D

[Roms]

There is no need for a poll, we are aware that lumping them all together has not proven to be ideal, and will be looking at ways to improve it prior to the actual hacks database being live. :)

Thank you. :)

[Talisman]

Aww, no. Not a poll! I was hoping someone would circulate a petition, this time.

[Brad]

hehe everyone hates my index. ^^ O well it was just a hold over anyway, they'll do something better just give 'em some time. ;)

[john1744]

Sorry Brad, but when I come here I usually know what I'm looking for and the way it is now makes it difficult to pin down that stuff.

[Shelley_c]

hehe everyone hates my index. ^^ O well it was just a hold over anyway, they'll do something better just give 'em some time. ;)

I'm not being funny brad but you may think it's something to laugh about, but it's all but your actions (with regards to the database) that have stopped me from contributing to the database (Graphic database). Becuase of your actions and the lack of knowledge from your staff to structure a database that's both benficial to the members and contributors have basically destroyed and made life harder for everyone.

Again, I don't find it funny because the community is very much divided and arguing amongst themselves because of mistakes you and your staff have made. Funny? I don't think it's a laughing matter, I personally think it's time for staff to come up with a solution. BTW, I suggested several, which of course, were/are ignored.

Ps Don't forget there is still a graphic database (it's not all hacks people want).

[bairy]

Brad,

I don't think many people hate (as in loathe) it. I personally dislike it the same as everyone else but it's not completely unbearable.

The thing that bugs me about it is: When this whole thing blew up before and around the time Erwin quit, the staff were saying a lot of "We've got plans" and "We're figuring out what system to use". It's been weeks since then and nothing's happened about the hack db except this 'merge' thing. Of course I appreciate everyone's busy, there's a lot of recovery and reorganisation to do and that's fine.
The thing I don't understand is why the decision was made to merge everything. Since 3.5 and the plugin system came out, I've seen lots of posts in the code modification area "I'll wait until it's a plugin" "Can you make this into a plugin". People don't want to modify the source php files anymore, they want plugins. So it's a little daft merging both together with no clue as to which is which without going into each thread.
I realise that for people who don't care about altering their source code it's probably a little better, but the "group the lot" was always available using the search - well, it was if you had an idea what you were looking for.

Aside from the actual practical differences in old vs new layout, it is likely to read to some people that yet again, the staff do what the hell they like and stuff the members - we can cope because that's our role {trots something out about privaledge not right}. I don't know if that was intentional, but that's how it comes across to me and I should imagine many others.

[Paul M]

There really is little point in arguing yet again over what is already done. It's already been stated that improvements are planned - continually bashing the staff (most of who have only been here 4 to 5 weeks) and making comments about being ignored (again) are not going to make things go any faster. :cool:

[Floris]

hehe everyone hates my index. ^^ O well it was just a hold over anyway, they'll do something better just give 'em some time. ;)
I don't hate it, I love it!

[Shelley_c]

There really is little point in arguing yet again over what is already done. It's already been stated that improvements are planned - continually bashing the staff (most of who have only been here 4 to 5 weeks) and making comments about being ignored (again) are not going to make things go any faster. :cool:

I'm not arguing Paul. I'm just stating facts. I may have been here 5-6 weeks but I've given more to this community than the majority of members have given. I'm not saying they should contribute but simply because I've been here for over a month doesn't make my opinion invalid.

Why do you need time? I'm serious, All it takes is to move the modification areas to a better location. I wouldn't question my motives paul because as far as I'm concerned I'm one of the tru contributors that expect nothing from my contributions. When staff makes it hard for me and other people to contribute staff come in and try to make people look inferior. Just like you stated by saying "no point in arguing". I'm not arguing, people want to have a nice browsing experience and contributors want to contribute without the extra workload that is involved because of mistakes that staff have made.

[The Geek]

Its being reworked. Hell, at least they tried to do something as an interim measure.

The only thing that grips me is that thing took a year to do!

Cut them some slack

[Shelley_c]

I'm (again) making my suggestion to them (not that it is going to be much good). I'm very much entitled to express my concerns with regards to the graphic database because the longer staff prolong this bad experience the longer users suffer from it.

Wern't you one of the coders that argued your case about wanting respect? and you certainly argued your case which brings me back to my suggestion, I'm stating my concerns (because I take whatever staff say with a pinch of salt).

[Hornstar]

I dont mind it. It looks appealing ^^ hard to find what your looking for but looks good :D

My idea was liked by everyone. Keep it the way it was before.

and give the authors the option to choose this for there hacks.

[vB 3.5.x] or [vB 3.5.x/3.6.x] or [vB 3.6.x] That way we know what version it is compatiable for, and there would not have had to been a whole new 3.6 forums made, which is not going to be that active.

[The Geek]

I participated in the discussions about the need to incentivise contributors, but I don't see how that fits in here.

Ive wanted a hack db here for ages, even went as far as to try to start the project off as a community thing - but it fell on its face. However an attempt has been made, it hasn't worked and as Paul stated, they know it doesn't work so they are working on an alternative solution. I'm not sure how much more you can ask other than maybe a discussion on what users want from the system (however I think that has been done too). Debating (and holding a poll) that it isn't good enough is a moot as staff have already acknowledged that it isn't good enough.

[Brad]

What is there now was never meant to be the 'hack database', I think the wording in the intro is throwing people off.

I designed that on my own to solve a few issues with the layout we were using. It was designed to be a hold over until the coding team finished the modification database, nothing more, nothing less.

The 3.5 forums were merged because of complaints going back for a year or more, way back when people said the three forums confused them. That is why I merged them.

People voiced complaints about the graphics section getting the shaft, that's why it got it's own section, and was one of the main reasons for placing an index there.

This was my thinking when I created that, obviously others do not agree with it. The current staff (outside of Danny) had no say in this index. It was entirely my idea, I designed it, I installed it, blame me if you're looking to blame someone. I'm willing to take the blame for it, and I don't feel bad about hearing feedback on it, does not bother me one bit.

I know for a fact the staff is now planning a total re-write, which is needed. Changing things here is not as simple as going to the admincp, it often requires making modifications to many .php files and plug-ins. Just adding new versions to the drop down on newthread.php requires two code changes to a plug-in for example.

So many people have had their hands in the cookie jar over the years that the back-end is a mess.. Cut the staff some slack and give them some time, you'll see good things if you give them some time, I promise.

[Ziki]

I don't hate it, I love it!

I second you!It is much better viewable.But Add ons for 3,5 and 3.6 should be categorised into Plugins, extensions, code mods, and misc hacks (option changes,bbcodes...)

[Shelley_c]

People voiced complaints about the graphics section getting the shaft, that's why it got it's own section, and was one of the main reasons for placing an index there.


If we are being honest, the graphics Area did get the shaft. When I post my concerns it's primarly to do with the location.

If you look at it from a contributors perspective, you've essentially made it hard. I've already stated this but I'll say it again. With graphics you have members requesting for alterations/colour changes etc, point being, the contributor has to constantly be able to view the thread for new posts/requests and with the graphic location beinng buried you just can't tell whther there is any new posts without going through 3 sets of links/areas to bypass. In short, it's simply to much work (if you're submitting 10 sets of graphics per day) which i was doing. I would have to be mad to increase this kind of workload without constantly refreshing in the modifications area. I'm simply advising that the graphic area somehow gets moved to the index page (like before).

Why would this entail any kind of coding? all your doing is moving the area to another location (in it's original location). Unless I'm missing something that to move the graphic area to a more prominant position that major coding work needs doing to it. The way I feel towards anything you say is "pinch" "salt"

Suggesting anything here always puts me in a foul mood so I'll glady take you up on your offer and officially blame you.

[MThornback]

Personally I don't see it much differently than I do a collapsable group of forums....I understood going in that it wasn't its final form so I didn't get myself all worked up over it....excuse them for trying....are you gonna burn them at the stake for making the changes as best they can in the time span they have? I think that things are on the road to recovery and all the mud slinging is doing more harm than good.

Your not happy, fine, we can all see.....your an Admin...what would you do if someone did this to your community? I just checked...the PM system is working...

$0.02

[Princeton]

yes, I agree. The Mod section needs revamping.

We have been working on many changes (this is one of them) ... you will see the changes as they are completed.

[bashy]

Well im sorry but i like it, i dont have any problems finding what i need.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Let me make a few points here based on remarks made in this thread:

The current shape of the site is far from optimal. A lot of members have addressed their concerns over a period of time. Staff have been listening to this but was for many reasons unable to change it on a short notice.
Like Brad mentioned there have been many people disliking the old 3.5 layout. He tried with both a layout change and by merging some categories to improve this a little with some more "easy" changes. Despite his efforts, this didn't mean it was an improvement for a large part of our members. We are currently looking into some easy changes again to get some improvement on the short term.
We had and have a lot of plans to improve this site, and it is being worked on. There are many reasons why this isn't progressing as fast as we would all like. A lot of changes in our Staff not only ment that our internal organisation was not totally stable, but it also ment we lost a lot of people who had knowledge of the inner works. We are now first building up the knowledge inside the teams again, so we can deliver the quality we are aiming to reach. But this also cost time.
Inspecting the current code of the side, made us come to the conclusion that spending a lot of time on improving the current code, is not the most effective approach. We will very likely first rebuild a lot of the current features, removing hard-coded solutions, transfer them to make full use of the posibilities that where introduced with vBulletin 3.5, such as the Plugin system. This might set our improvements back in time, but it will allow us to develop much faster in the future. Also upgrading to a new vBulletin version would be a lot easier.
Once we have a stable new code-base, we expect that you will start to see new features added faster.
Since the merge with vBulletin-Templates, the Design categories didn't always get the attention they deserved. Changes will be made to ensure that both the Coding sections and the Design section get equal attention.In short, changes might start slow and in the beginning maybe mostly cosmetic, but we need the time to prepair a more flexible environment so we can faster react on changing demands.

[Kirk Y]

This poll doesn't cover the entire spectrum of problems with the hack db. I like the new layout -- just not how the Plugins, Extensions, and Code Modificiation Forums were combined, that's really the only thing I wish would be changed.

[gothicuser]

This poll doesn't cover the entire spectrum of problems with the hack db. I like the new layout -- just not how the Plugins, Extensions, and Code Modificiation Forums were combined, that's really the only thing I wish would be changed.
here here, my thoughts exactly.

[Brandon Sheley]

i like it..

and i find it funny the number of threads I've seen thu the years I've been here asking when the hacks database will be back..

now it's back, and already a thread to remove it loooooolz

some tweaking may be able to be done, but I hope it doesn't get removed :)

[Antivirus]

Although i woudl like to see a centralized db for hacks, i currently find it more difficult the new way then older setup. I used to like to browse by Plugin category or by Add-ons, etc... currently it seems like it's rather difficult to do so anymore :(

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Please help me understand something.

If i am looking for a modification, then i know what that modification should be doing, it is something i need on my board. After i found the 1 or 2 modifications that do what i need, i will look if it is done in a way that i am willing to install on my board.

I just don't understand why people would go search for "Plugins" if they have no clue what functionality they need. It just don't make sense to me, unless you are installing modifications, just for the sake of having a lot of modifications on your board.

Could someone please explain me why they so badly need to have it grouped by their technical implementation instead of functionality.

[Freesteyelz]

Could someone please explain me why they so badly need to have it grouped by their technical implementation instead of functionality.

Actually, I'd like to know both. :)

The ideal setup, for me, is to have the modifications grouped by their functionality (first) and then categorized by the technical implementation. It doesn't have to be an issue of either or. At least on the front-end the layout should be simple and clear.

[Azhrialilu]

I don't have a problem with the layout *shrug* I don't go looking for mods specifically, I just mooch around and read whatever one takes my fancy, then check out the kind of installation it is. Maybe having the ones that use file edits separately would make things a bit easier - I don't really want to mess with the files now the plug in system is available, but overall, it's easy enough to use.

[Talisman]

Please help me understand something.

If i am looking for a modification, then i know what that modification should be doing, it is something i need on my board. After i found the 1 or 2 modifications that do what i need, i will look if it is done in a way that i am willing to install on my board.

I just don't understand why people would go search for "Plugins" if they have no clue what functionality they need. It just don't make sense to me, unless you are installing modifications, just for the sake of having a lot of modifications on your board.

Could someone please explain me why they so badly need to have it grouped by their technical implementation instead of functionality.

Marco,

The newer people to vB are more apt to skim through the wide assortment of hacks available. And no, they really don't know what they're looking for to begin with -- not until something catches their eye and they realize how the hacks they find could enhance their forum. (Or not...)

If they're new to vB, they can't imagine the range of customizing possibilities that exist here until they browse around first.

[Ohiosweetheart]

i like it..

and i find it funny the number of threads I've seen thu the years I've been here asking when the hacks database will be back..

now it's back, and already a thread to remove it loooooolz

some tweaking may be able to be done, but I hope it doesn't get removed :)

ummm.. I think it's been stated at least a couple of times in this thread alone, that what we have right now is not the hack database. They are still working on it.

[Paul M]

ummm.. I think it's been stated at least a couple of times in this thread alone, that what we have right now is not the hack database. They are still working on it.That's correct - the true hacks database will not be seen for a while yet, first we have to document and update a lot of the internals of vb.org to get it ready for new additions (like the database, and of course vb 3.6).

[Ohiosweetheart]

That's correct - the true hacks database will not be seen for a while yet, first we have to document and update a lot of the internals of vb.org to get it ready for new additions (like the database, and of course vb 3.6).

I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into such an undertaking, Paul. Knowing that it will be worth the wait, I can wait..... tho I'm not sure how patiently ;)

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Marco,

The newer people to vB are more apt to skim through the wide assortment of hacks available. And no, they really don't know what they're looking for to begin with -- not until something catches their eye and they realize how the hacks they find could enhance their forum. (Or not...)

If they're new to vB, they can't imagine the range of customizing possibilities that exist here until they browse around first.Ok, i can imagine that.

Now i try to understand a bit more where the cry for seperation between code hacks and the rest come from.

Ok, let's asume that i feel i should stay away from code-edits.
If i was for any reason just looking through the list, and would find that half of the titles that look interesting are code-edit hacks, so they don't fit my criteria, then i would be frustrated that i had to look at all those only to find that they don't fit my criteria.

But is this reality? Open 100 random 3.6 & 3.5 Modifications, how many of those are code-edit hacks? I guess less then 5. So chance that i hit those in my search is very small. Hence i don't see the cry to create seperate subforums for them. If i am wrong, please tell me, i just try to understand what drives people to this request.

PS If a hack is a code-hack, chances are big that the functionality you are looking at, simply can not be done without code-edits.

[luroca]

Hello, if a hack is a code-hack it has to be really, really good and usefull for I install it. At the moment, I have installed no code-hack and a pair of my 3.0.5 hacks are not updated to 3.5 because they have to be code-hack.

The simple fact of to edit a template disturbs me and I´d wish thah the hook system would be available for templates and queries. The less changes in code/templates, the best hack.

In any case, I appreciate your works and efforts.

Regards

[Talisman]

Now i try to understand a bit more where the cry for seperation between code hacks and the rest come from.

I wasn't saying that to agree the hacks need to be split up that way. On that question, it wouldn't make any difference to me whether they're grouped together as plugins, code changes, or whatever else. (Which is why I didn't vote here.)

Overall, I probably fall more within the group that wants them separated by function or utility. Back when I was more active here, I never missed anything. The layout we had in the 2.x days worked great for me. Every day or every couple of days, I would come to the site and:

1. Check the 'new hacks released' box on the main page. I'd figure out what they were for and keep tabs on ones I might want to install later on. (Then just wait for the inital wave of bug reports to be resolved before installing anything so I wouldn't create problems I couldn't fix.)

2. Then I'd look through function sections... mainly studying Security Hacks, Admin CP Hacks, Forum Mod Hacks. These modification threads taught me alot about my own board.

3. Then, I'd click on the 'get new posts' button to see what was going on in some of the latest discussion threads.

I missed out on alot of development (and understanding) being gone for a couple of years. I came back during the latter phases of 3.x beta releases. Back then, I was still expecting to make "insert here" and "replace this" code changes, while trying to figure out how conditionals work. But the whole site and temperament was different here ... plugins, hooks, major hack packages ... I got lost in all the changes and the complaining was too discouraging. I still poke around a little now, but tend to hold off yet trying to learn more. The signal-to-noise ratio here still runs a little high for me.