[TOWN HALL] Supporting the entire Member Base.

[Guest190829]

vBulletin.org has grown to support a large spectrum of members.

In order to fully support the wide spectrum of members here, vBulletin.org must adapt to make visiting the community a fun and resource extensive place for every member. This ?Town Hall? thread will allow every member to voice their opinions on this topic.

What new features will be beneficial for you? What would you like to see from the new Staff and Administration?

Your input will help tremendously. Please take your time in posting here, as this is a Town Hall thread, which means you can only voice your opinions once in the thread, and can not react on posts made by others.

For those who don't know what a Town Hall thread is:
1. You may post one reply to address the proposal. If I update the proposal or post within the thread, then the count starts over. No editing of posts is allowed, so make sure you fully address your argument.
2. You may not address other community members at this time. Keep it on topic and directed to the proposal.
3. Any multiple posts will be deleted.
4. You are to remain civil at all times.
5. There will be no deviation from these rules.

Thank you for participating. It is certainly appreciated.

[noppid]

Since all of us have to buy a license to play here in any of the code forums. All of the code forums should be open to all license holders.

If you don't have a license, no code forums. If you have a license, access to ALL code forums should be granted.

Jelsoft verifies our license when we register here. With the .org being tied to the .com by private license information, this service is a part of our fee. We should all have equal access.

The private coders forum membership terms are a farce. There are already members in there that are not coders, but instead people that posted code someone else wrote. This is not fair either.

Open it all up or cut the ties to the .com and have a club. As long as our licenses are tied to access here, we all deserve equal access accross the board.

Thank you

[Revan]

I think a proper hacks database and not the useless and IMO pretty counter-productive forum layout we have now would be a viable asset to the site.

Even wBB with wBBMods.com have such a database (though it's not half of what it could be).
Quite frankly, no matter what you add to the threads in order to get a database feel to it, the only thing that's going to cut it in my book is an actual database.
Much hype was generated for nothing.

I think it would be highly beneficial to have a database with a powerful Search feature and a bug tracker because this would help users to find hacks, and coders to manage their hacks.

Please make it the Coder Team's first priority to develop a Hacks Database worthy of the greatest forum software on the Intar Web.

[tgreer]

Which issue is being addressed here? A Town Hall thread regarding the Private Coders Discussion was publically announced, but has never materialized. I think all of the issues about which people feel strongly have already been aired in the Site Feedback forum... so I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, other than for everyone to re-hash existing issues. No stance on any of the issues already brought forward is given, and no actions as a result of this thread have been outlined.

I would suggest that this thread, since it is basically toothless, be closed, and new Town Hall threads on the following issues be opened:

Site Organization - Mod Database
Paid Hacks
Private "Coders" Discussion Forum
Thread Moderation / Posting Policies


In each, the current administrative policy should be defined, poll options for possible changes be given, a time limit for each thread established, and some statement as to what actions will be taken with the poll results in each case.

While I have very strong feelings about how inappropriate, on so many levels, it is to have a Private Coders Discussion, I've already said all I have to say about it. In fact, I think there has been enough debate for the site administration to make a decision on that matter. It's high time to stop discussing these same issues, and start addressing them.

[Reeve of shinra]

Its clearly apparent that finding a "modification" is not an easy process for a variety of reasons.

On the front end we need a page where users can drill down and find mods based on whatever criteria is relevent to them.

File Edits: yes/no
Template edits: yes/no
Files to upload: yes/no
DB changes: yes/no
VB Version: [#]
Drill down box to whether its an admin option, a front end feature enhancement or a full enhancement like a gallery or cms

Now that users can find the mods they want, how can we make the experience better?

* bug tracker for mods
* a "box" where users in the community can verify that a mod works with specific vb versions
* a "box" where users in the community can post a FAQ that links back to an answer.

Next up, we need a disclaimer when users are registering. Nothing to long or they wont read it but something that will get the basic point across that most mods are created by people for use on thier own site and contributed as a benefit to the community and that if they are looking for the next "myspace" or "utube" they may need to learn how to code themselves.

Onto other matters.

Service Requests -- alot of people complain that they never get filled... obviously thats because not everyone wants to commit the time for developing a super complex script for free which is understable. As a community however, we should be active and try to offer alternate solutions on how to accomplish the same thing or in the worst case, just say that this is a complicated hack and that they may want to learn how to code it themselves with some guidance from those of us with more coding experience. Its thier project though, they are running with it.

I think thats it for the moment.

[MJM]

The vB.org community has been a great source of inspiration and in so many instances has been a step ahead of ongoing development at vB.com. I hope it continues in this direction. For me it has served as the eyes and ears of what this software can potentially achieve.

I would like to see a greater collaboration between vB.com and the vB.org community, with hopes that this would expedite the transition of ideas into practical solutions and the implementation of these into the core product or as add-ons.

I 'd also like to see improvements in the methodology in which suggestions for features and functionalities are made, providing customers with an opportunity to take part in polls or surveys of possible inclusions so that we can can truly feel part of the ongoing development of this product.

I'd love to receive a periodical vB.com/.org newsletter, containing various news, community going ons, tips and tricks etc.

This would be very helpful for busy admins who often don't have time to visit vB.com/.org as frequently as they would want to, giving them an opportunity to take part in surveys without the need to be embroiled in debate etc etc etc.

This could also be developed as an add-on that I'm sure many vB customers would want to use at their site.

Well, that's all for now folks!

[john1744]

The current way to find hacks is horrendous.

This site needs a proper database for hacks. I've seen other sites develop one in a months time with one user working on it. Why can't a forum full of coders not have one after how many years?

I cannot find anything and frankly can't stand to browse the hacks right now. The previous way of seperation were better at least.

[Asi9ine]

Hey,

I would like to add my input as someone who is developing various small programs for vBulletin. I guess I would be much more able to adhere to the rules in question if I was higher up in the hierarchy as a "coder" myself. So until that happens, I shall swear by ignorance. Until I release the programs in question, of course.

I think that the site has undergone too many changes to be stable as it is. Every other day, you see a member who now posts with a coloured/italicised username, and you are compelled to visit the Forum Leaders page before you can read the rest of the thread, just so you know where you actually stand.

I did, however, read the thread that was posted on vBulletin.com, in the Site Feedback area. The threadstarter there made some excellent points, one of which was getting some continuity here. I know that this would severely restrict the time that the people have in question to be able to run the official vBulletin resource (vb.com), but if they run the 'unofficial' one too (vb.org), there is some continuity and at least some stability. And as I have noticed with these members, Steve and Freddie, etc, they are older and wiser people and don't get into arguments and throw away their Staff spots on a whim. They're adult, mature and responsible people, and that's all you can ask for. I would ask that that suggestion is taken into account.

I just think that vb.com and vb.org should be more similar. I think that (criticise me for this if you will, I don't care) anyone who visits/joins here should pay a subscription fee (say, monthly or whatever) and they are free to download whatever hack they like. Some of said money then goes to heach HOTM winner, and we have the element of motivation that Revan talked about in another thread. I think that this site should be freely twinned with vb.com, then there won't be any kind of separation going on. We know that motivation is low, and many projects have stopped here due to the amount of coders who have left. That breeds inactivity, and won't be solved unless there's some kind of incentive for them to stay and be recognised.

Just my two cents.

[COBRAws]

I would like to see hacks easily divided into sections like "plugins/file edits/template edits" and "forum home enhacements, forum home enh, admincp, thread ehnhacements, etc."

Now, if I want a plugin so I can do something diferent to the SHOWTHREAD, and make no file edits nor template edits. I GO MAD, becaus there is now quick way for doing it.

I would also suggest the closing of the entire Hacks secction to GUESTS. Why you may ask? I run a privacy report group, and everyday I find illegal copies of vBulletin and hacks everywhere.
I see forums asking people to download this or that hack from vB and they post the URLs.
If guests couldnt enter vb.org (im not saying that vb.org should be 100% closed to guests, just the hacks sections), there wouldnt be so many illegal copies elsewhere. Its not the solution for nulled copies around the world, but they would be reduced because you excluse non-lincense-holders, access to vb resources.
One final statement about guests & hacks sections, I know that granting access is benefical for the publicity of vBulletin, but its a side effect too, a big breach in vB privacy security IMHO.

About the current staff I have no complaints so far, im not very involved with their actions so I can not make a comment.

What I would also like, is a better showoff of the new hacks in the Portal. Right now you see any hack there, even if you exclude 3.0 hacks from forum search. I also happen to run across skins, and for me, skins are no good for no use because I have my own designers for my forums. It would be great to open a few "Blocks" for diferent new hacks released, on the portal, or at least, be able to exclude those we dont want.

Finally and not less important, I really really dont like the release of hacks for vB BETAs. Its useless. OK, they are really usefull for some members who run beta boards. But most of the people i believe, cant use them, because like me, run big boards and cant take the risk to install/upgrade to a Beta release of vB on they live forums. What I would suggest when the final 3.6 is out, moving all those Beta 1, 2 and 3 hacks, to another category, because when 3.6 is out, its a pain trying to find some good hacks fro 3.6 final, but you only find them for 3.6 Beta 1 for example, and it doesnt work. And the coder doesnt support it anymore. If it was up to me, I would wait untile the final release of vb was released and then, open the 3.6 hacks secction.

This is it, thank you very much for letting us tell you (the staff) the changes we would like to see happening.

Sorry for my english, im Spaniard. Cya,
Jack

[Logikos]

Heres my input. Jelsoft should get rid of all the staff here, and hire staff members to run the site. This site can't handle a voluntary staff, simple as that.

[joeychgo]

I own 6 vBulletin licenses, and will have 2 more shortly. I am an administrator on 2 additional vBulletin forums.

One of the reasons I purchased vBulletin in the first place was because of this site and the thousands of hacks available here.

I'm not a coder. So my personal feeling is that I dont care about having access to a 'Coders Forum'. However, if I choose to learn about coding, I shouldnt be forbidden from entering that forum. I paid my license fees and should be able to access that forum.

A bigger issue, IMO, is what feels like a Coder / Non Coder division here. It feels as though since I am not a coder, I am not considered to be important enough to listen to, or be cared about. Some people have indicated that this place is made by the coders. Lets keep something else in mind. There are many more non coders - and they pay the bills at Jelsoft, which is why this site is here. This site is for the benefit of the vBulletin license holder, not a place for coders to get together and hang with their buddies.

Tempers have flared here for some time. Obviously there has been quite a bit in inter-staff tensions as well, since the staf has changed over and over lately. I have seenthis exact problem in other forums before. I'm sorry to say that every time I have seen it, the forum died not long after, not being able to recover from the strife.

I dont see that happening here. Most members dont really care about the political goings on. They care about a resource for their forum. SO let me turn to that subject.

Better Organization of Hacks:

First, I believe we need a better way to organize the hacks. Be it a database or whatever. There needs to be better organization. Think about it from the standpoint of a newbie forum owner. He doesnt know the difference a plugin or a template modification. Those terms are meaningless to him.

The way things were organized Pre-3.5 were a bit better. The forums were self explanatory. The hacks were organized in a more related manner. Hacks that involved altering the Member Profile were mostly in the same palce. So if I wanted to jazz up my profiles, I could go there to see what was available.

That was a better system, IMO. And again, it shows that coders setup the forums, not thinking much about the non coder.

An improvement Idea:

I would like to see tutorials about HOW to write a hack. Why not HELP guys like me learn how to write hacks if we want to learn? Maybe then we could contribute as well. How about a section of forums for non coders to go and learn how to code. Have helpful mods that will hand hold new coders while they learn.


Listing Paid Hacks

This site is a resource for vBulletin forum owners. So, I think there should be a directory. It should have a set of criteria to gain a link, and should have a disclaimer that the sites are not associated with Jelsoft and are provided as a courtesy.

It also shouldnt be limited to paid hacks. ***URL Removed*** is a site that is a great resource for vBulletin owners. So is ***URL Removed*** (at least I would like to think so since I own that site :D). These kind of sites should be listed also. There are skin designers out there that should be listed in such a directory.

The idea being, a directory of outside resources for vBulletin forum owners.


vB.org Staffing

Personally, I dont care if blimpie the clown runs the place. But, let me express my opinion as an experienced forum owner, and business manager. Please understand, there is no offense intended toward anyone.

The monkeys are running the zoo.

And every time I see monkeys at the zoo they are busy throwing feces around.

Whats happening here, isnt all that different.

Forums such as this CAN NOT be run by committee sucessfully.

Marco is the new "Head Administrator" (no jokes, please) Good move Jelsoft. I dont mean about choosing Marco, I dont know him and have no opinion of him. But appointing someone who is in charge is important.

Now, Marco - (or whoever is the Head administrator next month) you need to take command of the staff first. They need to know what you expect them to do. Start with the staff, and that attitude will filter down to everyone else.

Moderators, Marco is the Boss this month. Dont argue with him. Offer your suggestions and then support the decisions he makes. Dont overstep. And remember, ever member here is ultimately one thing. A PAYING CUSTOMER. Treat them as such.



Ok, thats my .02.

[soniceffect]

I enjoy vbulletin.org and despite the numerus arguements people have on here, I`ve always found it to be a usefull and friendly site for the most part.

The hack layout at the moment is great in theory, however in practice is quite difficult to navigate through. I personally found the forum option from the 3.0 hacks a lot easier to go through. The database could still be run even if the forums were layed out in this way. I do think a great addition to this however would be a field for the coder to enter keywords that he/she feels fit for the hack that he/she is putting up download, and also the option to add a hack to more than one of the current catagorys

[Serial Killer]

Errr...I actually quite like it here.

[MThornback]

Aside from whats been mentioned...(most of which I agree could use a tweak here or there to say the least):

my biggest suggestion is that along the same lines as installs....coders could be rated on things like receptiveness to taking custom requests etc....

Another thing might be to change the layout of the search page and allow for more advanced searches to help accomodate the people looking for specific things....i'm probably putting my foot in my mouth...but I can't see it hurting....

General comment and vote of confidence:

....Supporting the Member base to me means pleasing the most possible people....some of the loudest voices here do a lot of bashing...some of their points ARE valid, I disagree with how they go about it....but by and large I hope the staff realizes they don't speak for everyone.

Personally, i'm quite happy to be part of this site as it is now, and willing to go along with the staff on most things....and i'm looking forward to the improvements that voulenteers can make. My site is run entirely by voulenteers too....so I can empathise when people want everything at their fingertips right away.

[dartho]

One simple suggestion - change the search function to only search through the first post of each thread - this would make looking for hacks much easier and filter out a lot of the crud.

[SaN-DeeP]

A hack database and a better forum design *not the default design.

[Borgs8472]

Make the coders forum entirely public, allow coders to abuse people who ask newbie questions in there who are not coders. :)

That's what you call a self-reguating system :)

[Brad]

The underlying problems of this site (and the vBulletin community as a whole) are not going to go away because you add a new feature or make changes in the way the staff conduct themselves in public. The problem goes much deeper than this and anything you do a long these lines may put in a dent in the problem, but it will not solve it.

I would like to point out three things, and while it won't cover everything (I honestly don't have the time) and I can't say everything I want (regardless of what some people say I'm not one to leak information).

1) Decide who this site is for, and serve them.

This site is a mess, for one reason and one reason alone: it can't figure out if it wants to be a site for programers, or if it wants to be a site for distributing vBulletin add-ons....so it trys to be both. This is why you have questions going un-answered on all fronts, because the "why does x not work in my php script?" question will get buried by the "How do I install this?" questions which in turn get buried by the "Can vBulletin do x?" questions which in turn get buried by the "How should I write this SQL?" questions...see where I'm going?

You have programmers who understand the underlying code and users that have no intention of learning how to understand that code attempting to share the same space. True you have separate forums for some of these questions, but that can only go so far and is a stop-gag approach to this problem.

If Jelsoft would set up some type of "developer zone" on this domain, or a new domain I would gladly pay extra to access it. This new area would not be for the customers that have problems installing modifications. It would be for people that want to develop applications that work with vBulletin, that want to understand the code, that want to discuss these matters with other people without having to deal with "newbie" questions (note: the word newbie was used for lack of a better word, if that offends you then get over yourself). I would like to see better documentation of the code behind vBulletin (so far we have little, the api docs leave much to be desired).

It would be nice to get more information about up-coming versions before they go into public beta, this way I can already be working on updating my modifications for the new version long before the public gets their hands on it. A 'private developer beta' program would also allow us to give Jelsoft feedback before the code is more of less 'locked' for beta/RC/gold releases. Who knows we might already have had things like plug-in execution order in 3.5 if such a thing was in place at that time, instead of waiting around for 3.6 to be deemed stable (and waiting on users to adopt it wildly).
I understand Jelsoft doesn't want anyone leaking information about new releases to ipb, or whoever...but that is all a little paranoia in my mind. So what if ipb finds out about something in a new version a few weeks before the general public because someone leaked that information? Do you honestly belive they would have time to "rip" that idea and package it up before Jelsoft gets what they've already been working on out the door? Assuming ipb does, will it be better than the code Jelsoft has been working on for weeks (months maybe?), the answer is probably not.

The pay-off here out weighs all the reasons to be paranoid about it in my mind! You've shown that you want to support developers that use your application (the plug-in system alone is enough to show that). You've made it possible for us to develop things that are more or less a 'no brainier' to install. It's now time to take this a step further and reach out to the people that program modifications, and create custom styles for vBulletin. There are a lot of people making a lot of money off your user base, and there is no doubt in my mind that they would be willing to pay just a bit more every year to get access to the type of resource I am speaking of.

I know a lot of people might be thinking "But I don't sell my work! What about people like me?" well I would hope such a thing would not cost an arm and a leg, else no one would use it. Currently I don't sell anything I have coded, but I'm more than willing to update my licenses to a "developer license" if such a resource was available. The important thing to remember is if people are paying to access this resource, it would mean jelsoft would have some extra income to spend on paying people to run this resource. People will work harder if they are getting paid, no question about that. Put some employees in charge of this developer zone and it will run smoother than it ever would as a volunteer run site. The problem is people tend to only work as hard as they have to, and if they are getting paid nothing they are likely to move on to something that brings them some form of income.

So what of vBulletin.org? I say replace it with what it's becoming: A site for hosting free modifications, linking to commercial modifications, and a support forum for helping people install/run modifications.

This will cut the fat for both sides. The people that simply want to download modifications will stay at vBulletin.org and won't have to shift through pages and pages of coding discussion. The people that know how to program will embrace the developer zone, and the ones willing to learn will find their way to it in time I'm sure (it would help to have some links at vB.com to it, no doubt). The developer zone will allow programmers to discuss things without to much noise from the regular customers, and that can only mean better things for the community as a whole.

As an example: When vBulletintemplates.com was still alive we did not have as many users at vBulletin.org, but the discussions we had about working with the templates, style manager, and graphics were far more meaningful and useful. vBt was merged into this domain so the customers didn't have to run back and forth to download modifications (they honestly don't care if it's a template mod or a hack). What happened to the good discussions about working with the style manager? They stopped after the merge for the most part because they got buried by php/sql/how do I threads. In short it was a move that was good for the regular customers, because they got their fix at one site instead of two, but as far as designers go it really just left them out in the cold.

That is just one example of a 'fix' causing another problem, and that's the cycle you will continue to have it you attempt to appeal to everyone with one domain.

2) Don't depend on the forums

Once you figure out what you're going to be, develop a site for that focus. The front page here should not be a portal that links endlessly to threads in the forum, just like the 'hack database' should not be a portal that links endlessly to threads in the forums. I attempted to fix this many times when I was on the staff here, but it always got put off for pressing issues, and anything that did get approved was always stuck in dev hell. You have a team of programmers/designers now, so I hope you use them wisely instead of allowing them to get caught up in moderating the forums.

The front page should have a few things....

There should be an FAQ linked that deals with all the common problems/questions one has when it comes to working with vBulletin. I think you'll find there are far less "How do I?" questions when you have such a resource, and even if they do get posted (they will) you have something you can link to that remains in a static location. I don't have to go searching for that thread that answers x question that was posted months ago, I click the link to the faq, find the item in question, and can post the link right off.

Good discussions (not just the latest) should be linked on the front page. Look at sitepoint's forum index if you want to see an example of that working in action. It's great to go there and find a few threads that are 'recommended reading' in the eyes of their staff. It makes the OP feel good, it gets more people involved (better answers), and it gets far more people reading important information.

Get a team of people together to write articles about vBulletin and have them linked on the front page (again articles should be hosted outside of the forums). This way you can cover more 'exotic' problems that won't be possible to include in a basic FAQ. Conduct interviews with modification authors, I'm sure they would love to share their ideas with us in these interviews, talk about things they have planned, and answer questions submitted by the community. Write reviews about commercial/non-commercial/open source software that integrates with/is built for vBulletin, I shouldn't have to search around the web or in the forums endless for that sort of stuff.

Set up a wiki so people can contribute solutions for common problems without having to post them in the forums. Once again that provides a static link, but it also gives anyone the ability to come in and improve the work others have already posted. I don't know about the rest of you but I fancy the idea of having the 'correct' solution right in front of me, and not buried under 60 posts in a 'how-to' thread.

I'm sure I could think up some other things, but I'm honestly bored with this already. Incase anyone is curious yes I tried to get everything listed above done when I was staff here, but every time there was some sort of problem that delayed and/or prevented it. Again maybe this new staff can pull it off, I'll willing to give them the chance.

3) Quit with the bullshit

This is aimed at everyone: There are too many egos here and people throwing around their weight. That has to stop because it makes this place seem not worth visiting. I can't belive some of the things I read when I come here, or visit other vBulletin websites (I'm not a member at most of them because they thrive on bashing this place, or the staff, or the clueless newbies, or the programmers with a god complex). My advice to all the people that like to stir the shit: I hope you enjoy the smell, and the backlash that you'll get from the people that don't.

People moan about how everyone is ruining this place and yell about things that don't effect them then turn around and wonder why no one is answering their questions! They don't answer them because you've run them off! I can't even keep count of the number of people that have left this place because certain people (or a group of people) had a grand olde time toying with someone's emotions until they said "I've have enough of this, it ain't worth it anymore, think I'll find some place with less static".

It's madness I tell you, madness. Why do you guys have such a big problem discussing things without it turning into a flame war? Why do you guys have to be so abusive to your peers? Why can't you bring up valid points and leave it at that? Why do you have to defend your point like it's a child stranded in a battlefield? Why can't you give someone the benefit of the doubt from time to time? Why can't you accept that you won't always get your way? Why can't you listen to the advice your parents gave you?: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I'm honestly starting to question if some of you people had good parents or parents at all....yes I took it there, I said it, it had to be said.

Maybe they were good parents, maybe you guys just never learned to respect them. Me, I don't have a problem with showing respect to other people (I always do unless they decide not to show it to me in return). You know why I don't have that problem? When I was a kid my dad would whoop my ass with a big leather belt when I got out of line, or if he couldn't find the belt he went outside and cut a nice green switch off a tree (hurts twice as much, lemme tell you, I was whiped so hard sometimes it left scars). It was great punishment, I plan on using it on my own kids if the day ever comes. I never had time out, I didn't get sent to my room, I was punished.

I learned at an early age that there were consequences as a result of my actions, so I learned get things right the first time! Else I may end up getting an ass whooping, doing extra work for that day (or week, or month..and I lived on a farm in the south. Plenty of nasty, real hot and/or freezing cold, and hard work to be done) and losing most of the 'fun' things I had for that time (as a kid that would mean all my gaming consoles, my PCs, my RC cars, bb guns, 4 wheeler, fishing poles, and slot car track). My dad ran a strict house, but we only had a few rules: Don't lie, Don't cheat, Don't Steal, Always show respect to everyone and everything at all times.

The point I'm trying to make is the point I've been trying to make for months now: Act like adults for once! You guys aren't kids (for the most part), you guys are administrators of your own forum for crying out loud! Act like it for once! There is no reason why this staff should have to do the amount of baby sitting it does here daily, no reason.


- In closing: I've said everything that I care to say, at least for the moment. I look forward to seeing this post end up on every "we hate vBulletin.org" site on the net. I look forward to hearing about how a former admin just "flamed" the general user base. I look forward to hearing about how I'm a bad, lazy, un-educated idiot, and how you're happy I left when I did. But no matter what they say they can't take away this: I always told the truth, I always gave it my all, I always showed respect to anyone that was willing to do the same for me, I always stuck with it through the good times and the bad, I always accepted the blame even if it was not directly my fault, and I always had the balls to speak my mind even if it wasn't the popular opinion.

Happy coding..

[edited for spelling]

[smacklan]

I would like to see this site become mostly a site for free modifications, links to commercial modifications and a support forum for users of modifications...

I am frustrated at how vB has financially enjoyed the fruits of the labors of many around here while letting this site get in this condition. It's troubling that they can remain at arms length, aloof and yet benefit so from the cottage industry of coders and designers (whether they charge for their efforts or not). It's time for vBulletin to step up, change their corporate "mindset" about this site and utilize it to it's full potential...they, along with their customers, will benefit greater than they can imagine!

Cheers!

[tnguy3n]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but can it be set that ex-coders can still access to their threads (hack releases) to continue provide support/update? My license is about to expire. :(

[Shelley_c]

I would like this site to take notice that the forum doesn't only revolve around coders and should take notice and implement a system to compensate graphic designers . Implement some kind of structure so designers can easily contribute to the database which benefits them thus benefits the community.

Diversity is the key here. There's no rule that this site has to be a dedicated coders haven. It may have started as a coders forum, but tapping into a new niche and vb.org step up to a new level.

Without a doudbt the code/modifications side is the best around. A graphic image database to match would give vb.org what it's been lacking since it's creation.

Location is the biggest downfall to a structure that is really flawed and this should be acted upon sooner rather than later.

edit spelling.

[UncoderMom]

UserGroups are our friends ;)

Create user group.....
COMMERCIAL HACKS (please lets have a usergroup for these!!!!! I want to know my options!! Make em pay a subscription fee or sumfin lol but PLEASE let them post produdts)!! Nothing worse then finding them after you dont need them and wishing you had gone with that!!

Community, with all the chit chat. (default)

2.x hacks and discussion

3.x hacks and discussion

3.5 hacks and discussion

3.6 and soo on.

There is nothing more frustrating then looking for a 3.5 hack and only finding hacks that dont mesh with your platform...very agrivating! I would love to apply to a 3.5 and only get 3.5 on my search (I 90% of the time use the search feature).

As for the drama of the site. Its a large site and people will always find something to be unhappy about! It is important to allow them to vent (vent forum) and not be cut off!

I bought my vb licenses because of the .org and had even read a long huge post about devision on this site and purchased anyway. Post like that should be contained rather then deleted and or even worse CLOSED! I come across closed posts all the time in search and not realizing they are closed till I go to reply or get to the page where I see its closed! Grrrr! People want the option to be heard or express there view point and if you try to control ones ability to do so you only make matters worse and its likely that this may have started this whole mess in the first place. If you close or delete two more will pop up in there place ;) JMO

I love this place but fear that all the tention will drive all the coders away! and even though Im a paying customer I lean heavily on coders here with both commercial hacks and .org released!

THANKS TO ALL THE BRILLIANT CODERS AT .ORG

I look forward to many a years at the vb.org!

Great to have an appointed admin!! Congrats BTW!

[sabret00the]

I'll be as concise as possible


A slashdot news area for all things related to vBulletin (including programming news, php/html/javascript/etc news).
Interview area for big board admins/hackers/etc.
Review area for hacks/commercial add-ons/commercial software useful for programmers.
Wiki for common problems/code snips.
Sourceforge like release area for add-ons.
Firefox like plug-in site area for finding add-ons.
Contests with real prizes (no free vB licenses..you guys already have one!).
Less use of the forum expect for discussion. and tons of other littles things...
review all the current modifications and give them titles: "Best use of CSS" "Best original idea" "Best in show" etc. in exchange for prizes. Would be like a once a year thing. Think of it like the summer of code, but for vBulletin.


Bring in a project manager for this new wave of changes who can work independently of the current vB.org administration, he sets out his goals and timelines and it's up to him to get a team together to achieve it (volunteers much like the coding team). His job wouldn't be to code the project but to manage the project. (I recommend Brad, he's perfect for this project. he's been around the community long enough to know exactly what's wrong with it and what needs to change and how to carry it forward, I believe he has the drive and ambition to reincarnate this site in the way it once was done so under Chen. I believe in the progress vBulletin.org can make under Brad).

Ultimately vBulletin.org needs to be split, on one hand there needs to be a hack portal, then there needs to be a developer community, i.e. end users wouldn't ever need to move past the portal and coders use the rest of the site, for this reason i think Developer Licenses are perfect.

*Please note the list of ideas are not my original ideas, they are indeed Brad?s.

[ronoxQ]

First of all, I think I REAL mods database should be first on your list. Separate mods by beta/not beta, so we can go right to finished hacks if we want. Let us sort by data added, or by alphabetical. Make better sort-by-function stuff.

Also, I know this isn't likely, but let us get updates for mods we've installed, even once our license expires. I'd hate to be stuck with a faulty mod and no support, and have to pay another $160 to get a fix. I'm not that rich, you know.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Also, I know this isn't likely, but let us get updates for mods we've installed, even once our license expires. I'd hate to be stuck with a faulty mod and no support, and have to pay another $160 to get a fix. I'm not that rich, you know.I will react on this now (other suggestions will not be reacted upon until we close this topic), to rectify it.

If you have an expired owned license, you will still have full access to vbulletin.com & vbulletin.org, so it should be no problem to download modifications.

If you have an expired leased license, then you can not be running a vBulletin board, so there is no reason why you should have access to modifications.

PS If you feel the need to discuss this, you can send me a PM, or start a new thread in the Site Feedback.

[eXtremeTim]

I feel we need to be allowed to talk about and have at least a links directory for our paid modifications. Jelsoft is making a fortune thanks to us coders that are making all the free modifications that really steps this software up to the next level. So basicly they want us to help make them money but they wont help us make money. Some of us have products that compare to vBulletin in size or even bigger then vbulletin. Which is why im tired of people saying we are just out to make money. The fact is we work hard for our products. If I have addon products for vBulletin that I have made that is the size of vBulletin or even half the size of it you are crazy to expect me to release them all for free. I should have a place here where I can tell people about them so that the community can enjoy them. I spend on average 80-120 hours a week coding on my products and hack and clients sites. I work extremely hard on the code that i make. I have bills to pay just like Jelsoft does.

I am also tired of hearing people say that if we had a paid modifications database here that it would stop the free hacks. No honestly it would allow me to make more free hacks becuase I would spend less time having to work on clients sites to cover my bills.

I am also fed up with the attitudes of people on this site. The non coders love to pm me for support on hacks that I didnt even make and when I reply to them and tell them nicely that im not the person to talk to about it becuase I didnt make it I have had several people go off on me. I am not going to deal with that. I mean I dont even support my hacks via pm. I support my hacks on my site and when possible on here. Yet when I dont support a hack here I get ranted at for hours and hours at times by people who are pissed becuase they couldnt follow simple instructions or were trying to modify it and broke the code, all becuase they feel like they paid for vbulletin which to them means they paid for my support and time as well.

[RMS-Chef]

Personally, I have never gotten into the politics so I can't really speak to that subject. I have always been treated well here by everyone I have come into contact with.

That aside, I think the new "system" is not as good as the previous. The previous setup was easier to find what you were looking for when you were looking for something specific and also easier to browse when you were looking for just "something". It is discouraging when trying to locate a specific hack and can't find it....and I am not a vB search noob either.

A few bullets:

A more structured database system is required
It's nice that in each hack thread there are the check boxes for the items such as "Supported", "DB Changes", "Installer Included", and so on. It would be nice to be able to use the search function with these to filter results based on them
Rather than bring back the previous SHOWTHREAD, FORUMHOME, ect. broken down into individual forums perhaps just have a new series of check boxes so the hack author can select what the hack fits into and be able to again filter searches based on the selections.
There should be at the very least a directory listing for paid hacks. I am sure there are some paid hacks out there that I do not know about that I may find useful. I would even support a separate release forum where the author releases the paid hack here with info and screens etc. (not the actual hack) and then users would be able to comment on it's functionality and the authors level of support and such. How ever it's done, it should be done in some way.Whatever happens, I will continue to visit nearly daily as I have for the past three years to see what's new. No matter how tough it may be to navigate or find things I greatly appreciate the work both the staff and the hack authors do here.

[Jei]

For many years, vBulletin has remained the market leader among the BBS. However since the times of vBulletin2 when vB was recognized for its innovation , and member base in creating thousands of hacks, I feel that the vB mod scene has deteriorated.

Not that there is anything wrong with selling one's work, but I believe there has been decrease in the amount of quality hacks due to the some highly skilled and experienced coders stepping into a commercialized system.

To encourage more free hacks and support people who make them, I would like to suggest that perhaps Jelsoft invest a miniscule percentage of their profits to hold bi-monthly contests to challenge experienced coders and encourage the creation of quality hacks. I believe this would renew the vB community and bring it closer together.

Additionally, recently I've been tracking a number of hacks and have arrived at a suggestion to implement a bug-tracker system for each hack, rather than having users reply, nag with their problems.

This bug-tracker system could be similar to the one at vBulletin.com for bugs related to major releases except be for each thread. This way, authors of hacks will not have to deal with uncooperative, ungrateful individuals and would be more compelled to further continue their work for the community.

Additionally, I think a feature similar to the '[AJAX] Post Thank You Hack' should be implemented if a bug-tracker system is put into place. This would allow people to give their thanks to the author and filter out problems with the praises increasing the effectiveness of the entire system.

Thanks for Reading my Suggestions, and though my Join Date is relatively new, I've been an on and off customer of vB and have seen the high tides which is why I've become a customer again hoping to be apart of the affluent community it is.