I think I've had enough

[sabret00the]

In One Piece the Arabasta arc, there's hot camels there.

[MPDev]

Does camel really taste like chicken? Someone told me a rattlesnake did, I tried it and it does not; unless maybe it tastes like a rubber chicken.

[Seiken]

...This i stupid. You guys are real dumbasses to turn this thread into hot camel talk.

[MPDev]

That, sir, is uncalled for. This is a civil website with a code of conduct that does not include calling other members "dumbasses" - with a mere 20 posts to your credit in the last year and a half, I would suggest that you take the time to reconnect yourself with the rules of this site.

...Now back to the hot camel talk...

[hambil]

They are just trying to lighten the mood because it's gotten so tense around here. However it is a serious thread, and enough is probably enough IMHO :)

[Kihon Kata]

Hmm balls and a turkey dinner. cool

[Seiken]

That, sir, is uncalled for. This is a civil website with a code of conduct that does not include calling other members "dumbasses" - with a mere 20 posts to your credit in the last year and a half, I would suggest that you take the time to reconnect yourself with the rules of this site.

...Now back to the hot camel talk...

I dont want to hear it. I come here and I post when I find it needed. I install hacks and acknowledge the creators with their proper install copyrights and the install buttons. So dont strat about a year and a half and measly posts because I really don't care.

I dont need to re-connect with anything, I come here and see how people act all the time. So preach elsewhere.

[0ptima]

Optima, I'm sorry I didn't see what part of your post was meant for me? Could you please elaborate?

I sent you a PM.

[MPDev]

I dont need to re-connect with anything, I come here and see how people act all the time. So preach elsewhere.

Don't make me call your mother....

[Billspaintball]

Can we get this thread back on track please.

[Boofo]

I'd rather not get it back to what is started out as, please.

[Freesteyelz]

Ah, the old "ya had to be there" line.
The posts are all here, in context. Anyone can review them. Not to mention, the comment was made last night.
Maybe the "" comes in handy after all?


While my profession is in Child Psychology I'll take a stab at analyzing, I meant reviewing, them. :D

*Freudian slip. ;)

[Erwin]

Please stay on-topic - if you want to chat, go to the Lounge. Thanks for understanding.

[COBRAws]

...but the fact of the matter is. Jelsoft does not recognize coders for the great work they do. Alot of features you see in the vBulletin package now, came from hardcore coders from the past.

damn true.

Im not coder, I dont have the time to learn all about coding so I have to depend on free code from coders like you for example. I've even downloaded hack from your board even when it was a small one!

But hey, as someone else stated, even a "hello world" script can be uploaded. There are dozens of scripts that do the same, such as the "autoresize image" or stuff like that.

About the hacks database... well, even a customer an non coder like me, is still waiting for it.


Bigboards if they arent taken care of day by day, end up having problems like this.

[Oddjob]

If you wanna make money off your hacks, open up a site for them like a few others have done.

Simple.

[COBRAws]

So, if I kill all coders, vb.org will still prevale because it will be turned into a... mmmmmm grocery store? LOL

c'mon guys. Think wisely before hitting the Post Reply button ;);););)

[Erwin]

The admins and staff have listened to the concerns in this thread and we are actively finding solutions right now. It's sufficient to say that there will be major changes implemented very soon - I know people are tired of hearing merely words with no actions to back them up - we basically need to look at different options - do we do this in an evolutionary way (slow and steady), or in a revolutionary way (radical changes)? It may be that we need radical changes. We shall see. Things are being discussed. So be assured that we are listening.

[Tralala]

Thank you, Erwin. That's one of the most positive-sounding posts I've read on the subject in a while now.

[Roms]

Thanks Erwin. :)

[MThornback]

Agreed...its the most productive post thus far on either side of the fence....Erwin's had the last two or three most honest post....go team Erwin :p

[Ntfu2]

So like today i released a pretty cool mod, and i dont think everyone appreciated it because i only got 8 installs all day and they even reported a bug, how could there be a bug in my mod? can you beleive the nerve of some people

I think i'm going to leave now.... and take my lightbox with me

/sarcasim

[Cloud Strife]

Im glad to hear that there are going to be changes... Its been needed fir a while now. Thanks for listening to the customers :)

[kall]

Shortly thereafter, i recieved a couple pm's telling me i could not release another's code without his permission. With out wanting to get into the he said she said, i backed off and removed my zip from the site.
Hmm.. according to this post (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=895424&postcount=65) you took it down because it was a core vBulletin file that you had edited in some way.

That's not stealing another's code, that's breaking the TOS of both this site and vBulletin Software.

[COBRAws]

The admins and staff have listened to the concerns in this thread and we are actively finding solutions right now. It's sufficient to say that there will be major changes implemented very soon - I know people are tired of hearing merely words with no actions to back them up - we basically need to look at different options - do we do this in an evolutionary way (slow and steady), or in a revolutionary way (radical changes)? It may be that we need radical changes. We shall see. Things are being discussed. So be assured that we are listening.
Sometimes heads need to be chopped. Its a shame, but its the truth

[The Geek]

I think an analogy more apt than the grocery store one would be that of a pot-luck dinner at a church that has gone very, very wrong. In a pot-luck dinner, every family brings a dish of their favorite food to share with the group. People eat a bit of this and that and talk and maybe swap recipes. There is no menu. There are no waiters or short-order cooks.

Now, imagine you take your dinner to the pot-luck dinner, and out of the 100 people who come, 4 bring food. Most of the other 96 people come and very quietly eat some of the food and leave. A few smile and say thank you. And, because it's a church and you have some food there, you really don't mind.

A few people who don't cook try to help out. They wash dishes, and pick up the trash. They help the small kids and older people who can't fill their own plates. They try to add something to the party.

But, 2 or 3 of the people who don't bring food start asking for stuff that isn't there. And, they get angry when you won't dish out their plates and serve them at their table. And, they yell at the people who did cook and tell them that the food is no good and it would be much better if you served steak instead of baked beans.

Those 2 or 3 people are far from the majority, but they certainly aren't much incentive for the 4 people who were willing to share their food to do so again.
I just had to quote this as I think it's pure brilliance.
Easily one of the best analogies I have read around these parts.

[Revan]

The admins and staff have listened to the concerns in this thread and we are actively finding solutions right now. It's sufficient to say that there will be major changes implemented very soon - I know people are tired of hearing merely words with no actions to back them up - we basically need to look at different options - do we do this in an evolutionary way (slow and steady), or in a revolutionary way (radical changes)? It may be that we need radical changes. We shall see. Things are being discussed. So be assured that we are listening.First of all I would like to say thanks for taking action. It's most appreciated.
But I do have to state one thing: It would be nice if we could hear a little more than "changes will be implemented". All we've heard is "the hack db is coming" but thats about it. Any attempts to re-kindle it gets the thread locked (seperate thread that is).
What I would like is to hear a little more details. Specifically, a what and a rough when.

I applaud changes being made (if they are for the better :p) :)

[TheMusicMan]

The admins and staff have listened to the concerns in this thread and we are actively finding solutions right now. It's sufficient to say that there will be major changes implemented very soon - I know people are tired of hearing merely words with no actions to back them up - we basically need to look at different options - do we do this in an evolutionary way (slow and steady), or in a revolutionary way (radical changes)? It may be that we need radical changes. We shall see. Things are being discussed. So be assured that we are listening.If you always do what you did, you will always get what you got.

Given that you would possibly be looking at a cost/benefit or risk/reward analysis of what's 'most right' for vB.org... radical would, in my humble opinion, seem to be the most pragmatic approach here...

[Erwin]

First of all I would like to say thanks for taking action. It's most appreciated.
But I do have to state one thing: It would be nice if we could hear a little more than "changes will be implemented". All we've heard is "the hack db is coming" but thats about it. Any attempts to re-kindle it gets the thread locked (seperate thread that is).
What I would like is to hear a little more details. Specifically, a what and a rough when.

I applaud changes being made (if they are for the better :p) :)
I can't give details as the discussion is still going on. It may require a change of staff. It will take a lot of time and effort. It may involve many people. Really, until we sort it out for ourselves, I can't really tell you much more.

[davidw]

To be serious on the matter, aside from hot camels, I am compelled to agree with Amy and with good reason too. She makes a very good analogy. I will provide my hacks for free and if people don't like it, I will assume there's something better they can purchase elsewhere - which is fine by me, I'm happy I can help someone out that can't afford to pay, such as myself.

[Ohiosweetheart]

To be serious on the matter, aside from hot camels, I am compelled to agree with Amy and with good reason too. She makes a very good analogy. I will provide my hacks for free and if people don't like it, I will assume there's something better they can purchase elsewhere - which is fine by me, I'm happy I can help someone out that can't afford to pay, such as myself.
and rest assured, you and coders like you, are very much appreciated by me and people like me, who can't afford to pay for hacks.
God bless you sweetie ;)

[Rich]

That, sir, is uncalled for. This is a civil website with a code of conduct that does not include calling other members "dumbasses" - with a mere 20 posts to your credit in the last year and a half, I would suggest that you take the time to reconnect yourself with the rules of this site.

...Now back to the hot camel talk...

This is something I can't stand on this site. This guy has the audacity to tell people to read the rules when he himself was provoking a situation and tossing out some name calling yesterday. (Which the thread ended up closed.) THAT is also getting old and I wish something would be done about it.
I TRY to avoid situations where I can but as of late, this site has more kindling for flames than the campsites I visit.

[Ohiosweetheart]

This is something I can't stand on this site. This guy has the audacity to tell people to read the rules when he himself was provoking a situation and tossing out some name calling yesterday. (Which the thread ended up closed.) THAT is also getting old and I wish something would be done about it.
I TRY to avoid situations where I can but as of late, this site has more kindling for flames than the campsites I visit.

It's in the water... or the air... or something...

[MPDev]

Oh, you just had to quote the guy didn't you? Now I can see his text (mental note: need to improve ignore to include quotes). He's just angry because I told him what he could do with his "advice" when he felt a need to sent me a rather nasty PM. What else can one expect when trying to wrestle with the Big Dog?

Seriously, go back and see who was doing the name calling. Guilty of poking angry kittens with sticks, sure, but I am above name calling. It's so much more entertaining to watch people go into meltdown mode without having to resort to calling people, oh, I don't know - dumbasses?

New day, new priorities. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if people want to throw temper tantrums in an effort to get some attention; in the end it's up to the Admins to sort it all out and figure out the best path going forward. (Which I am sure they will do.)

[Smiry Kin's]

problem is its vb.org that makes vbulletin what it is.. tbh the software is ok, it could be ALOT better.. but its hacks and the vb.org commuinity which make me some times stay up all night just messing about with me forums.. =-/

if the coders from vb.org go on strike or remove all hacks..

vbulletin will die?..

[libertate]

My suggestion... before you all rush out to create, modify, code, re-program, arrange, calculate, compile, compute, design, draft, edit, process, or whatever you normally want to do to vBorg...

Elect, through registered members' vote, a Board of Advisors. Create Advisory Committee(s) within the Board.

Set up ad hoc committees (for example hack DB deployment) as needed, then disband once the project is completed.

Allocate space on the Board for non-coders, coders, designers and whatever the flavor of names call today. Get a reasonable cross-section of the community.

Allow the Board and the advisory committees to provide a concise and specific feedback to vBorg direction. vBorg should respond why or why not implementing the feedbacks/direction to the whole community.

There is no reason vBorg cannot run herself as thousands of non-profits do.

Add some structure to how things happen at vBorg, and the majority of displeasures will fade.

[Mikecp421]

I appreciate all the coders here and would pay a subscription if I had to, to get the hack info.

[MPDev]

Hmmm... I'm not sure I'd want a site to profit from my work without some form of compensation.

[hambil]

vb.org is owned by vb.com. You can't post here or download hacks without a license. You pay $150 for that license, and $30 or so to keep it every year. You already subscribe to this site.

[Zachariah]

vb.org is owned by vb.com. You can't post here or download hacks without a license. You pay $150 for that license, and $30 or so to keep it every year. You already subscribe to this site.

Sorta true. You pay 30$ a year for VB updates not vb.org / vb.com access or right to keep the software.

[Rich]

Sorry, I have to post it:

Seriously, go back and see who was doing the name calling. Guilty of poking angry kittens with sticks, sure, but I am above name calling.

Its one thing to be a man and admit when you are incorrect, its another to lie. On the board you had to be warned by Floris and your response to my PM telling you to grow up started with "Livewire is a pu$$y". If that isn't name calling, then I don't know what is. Yes, that was a PM. It wasn't on the board. The fact is though, you apparently aren't above name calling so please don't try to put up a facade for the members to believe you are something you are not.

Your a great coder but you have some serious growing up to do bud.



.

[hambil]

Sorta true. You pay 30$ a year for VB updates not vb.org / vb.com access.
Are you sure that's true? If I don't pay my $30 I can still download from vb.org? Of course, even if it is, as soon as there is an upgrade and all the hacks start converting I'd be screwed anyway.

[Rich]

Once you are licensed, you are licensed I believe. I don't think you will lose support here so long as you have an owned license.

[Zachariah]

Come on Kids ... Lets have a Sing Along !

Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.

:bunny:

Who has my big red rubberball ?


* Zachariah goes back to his code cave.

[Paul M]

The admins and staff have listened to the concerns in this thread and we are actively finding solutions right now. It's sufficient to say that there will be major changes implemented very soon - I know people are tired of hearing merely words with no actions to back them up - we basically need to look at different options - do we do this in an evolutionary way (slow and steady), or in a revolutionary way (radical changes)? It may be that we need radical changes. We shall see. Things are being discussed. So be assured that we are listening.
Back to reality - good news Erwin - I hope things will have changed when I return full time in mid June. :)

[kall]

Once you are licensed, you are licensed I believe. I don't think you will lose support here so long as you have an owned license.
Not true.

You are licenced for a year, then you have to pay the $30.

You DO lose your vb.org priviledges, I did when my first licence expired.

[Paul M]

Not true.

You are licenced for a year, then you have to pay the $30.

You DO lose your vb.org priviledges, I did when my first licence expired.Not if you have an owned licence.

I did not renew my support when it expired until the next version of vb was released - there was no point.

[Brad]

Not true.

You are licenced for a year, then you have to pay the $30.

You DO lose your vb.org priviledges, I did when my first licence expired.
As far as I know this is only true for the leased license. If you have an owned license your access to the support forums (including vBulletin.org) won't expire. The only thing you do lose, is the ability to download new versions of vBulletin.

[hambil]

The offtopic point still being though - this is already a subscription forum. Now what where we arguing about? ;)

[amykhar]

I don't think we're arguing anymore. That was so yesterday.

[hambil]

I don't think we're arguing anymore. That was so yesterday.
I could not disagree with that more! And I have no idea why!

[MPDev]

Are we having pot luck tonight, Amy? :)

[Tralala]

I'll bring the pie.

[PennylessZ28]

man this whole thread sounds like a bunch of women at a femist ralley who are going through PMS and just found out their lesbian lovers were really men.

[Zachariah]

man this whole thread sounds like a bunch of women at a femist ralley who are going through PMS and just found out their lesbian lovers were really men.

dude you crack me up. :knockedout:

[MPDev]

Ooooooo. lesbians.... much better than hot camels....

[Erwin]

problem is its vb.org that makes vbulletin what it is.. tbh the software is ok, it could be ALOT better.. but its hacks and the vb.org commuinity which make me some times stay up all night just messing about with me forums.. =-/

if the coders from vb.org go on strike or remove all hacks..

vbulletin will die?..
I agree with you that vB.org modifications is the heartbeat of what makes vBulletin the best. At the moment, the heart is not that healthy.

In any case, the Admins are discussing restructuring staff here to get more people involved especially the coders.

[Erwin]

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.

[hambil]

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.
That is fantastic news!

[MPDev]

Great news. Thank you.

[smacklan]

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory
That will make The Geek happy ;)

[PennylessZ28]

Ooooooo. lesbians.... much better than hot camels....

i just love when I'm sandwiched between too beautiful large breasted lesbian lovers who want to know more about God :confused:

[peterska2]

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.

Could be interesting.

I'll be watching how this pans out.

[Freesteyelz]

A Paid Mod directory? I agree with everything that you said, peterska2. :)

[Paul M]

I agree with you that vB.org modifications is the heartbeat of what makes vBulletin the best. At the moment, the heart is not that healthy.

In any case, the Admins are discussing restructuring staff here to get more people involved especially the coders.
FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.
Thank you - I see communication is improving as well :)

[Roms]

I agree with you that vB.org modifications is the heartbeat of what makes vBulletin the best. At the moment, the heart is not that healthy.

In any case, the Admins are discussing restructuring staff here to get more people involved especially the coders.

That's great, it sounds to me like this will all work out for the best.

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.

I know that many people have wanted this. Many coders/designers start here in hopes of getting noticed and starting their own sites to commercial sites..... vBAdvanced for example... ;)

[0ptima]

FYI, we are moving ahead with a Paid Mod directory, and discussing the best way forward with the Hack database as well. So things are happening.

I hope the authors have an "Opening Sale" :banana:

[Kihon Kata]

oh, quit a - brown - nosin', geek lol :)



I just had to quote this as I think it's pure brilliance.
Easily one of the best analogies I have read around these parts.

[Erwin]

We are discussing the best way to implement it - to facilitate time, we'll probably not code our own and use an existing script. We're looking.

[Marcus Lau]

Come On give vB some time, they have do us good and serve the community a great deal!!... Have Faith! Have Faith!

[Logikos]

Sounds good Erwin!

Nothing happens over night, I sure understand that! :)

[Erwin]

But it's no excuse to make people wait for months and months based on a promise we haven't delivered too. It's time we have some action rather than just talk.

[Marcus Lau]

well, ok let wait for some cool action to get the act together.

[The Geek]

Wow - thats fantastic news.

[Logikos]

vBAdvanced Links Directory would be something to look into. I'd give you my license if needed :p I'm sure Jelsoft could cover it though, but the offer stands. :)

[john1744]

Wow... Administrative response due to "customer/user" complaints. I love that in a forum.

Thank you all for working with the users on this one.

[Revan]

But it's no excuse to make people wait for months and months based on a promise we haven't delivered too. It's time we have some action rather than just talk.I actually get chills of joy running down my spine whenever I read this. This is what I call improvement, and you have my respect for doing this.
I think I speak for everyone on vBorg and their underage sisters when I say: Thank you.

One small suggestion though: Would it be possible to place golden posts like this in a Sticky and Locked thread in the Announcements section? As you have seen, posts is this thread gets buried under pointless bs rather quickly when both sides ran out of gas to throw on the fire, and I would hate for anyone to miss your posts.

[Ohiosweetheart]

But it's no excuse to make people wait for months and months based on a promise we haven't delivered too. It's time we have some action rather than just talk.

I'm luvin' it!!


One small suggestion though: Would it be possible to place golden posts like this in a Sticky and Locked thread in the Announcements section? As you have seen, posts is this thread gets buried under pointless bs rather quickly when both sides ran out of gas to throw on the fire, and I would hate for anyone to miss your posts.

QUICK.. someone quote it in their sigline!

[Martin]

I just wanted to pipe in here and say that I agree that the coders at vB.org make vBulletin a more appealing product. I handle a lot of the presales calls and tickets, and most times when a person asks about functionality that doesn't exist in vBulletin I've seen it as a mod over here and refer them to that.
There are literally hundreds of hacks over here I would love to see in the base product, but as you guys know, developing a base product is a balancing act between putting in functionality that people want and keeping the program light enough to operate on most shared hosting solutions without overloading the server.
By offering the hacks you guys do you allow us to achieve that end while still being able to point to vB.org and telling people that X function is available there.

I just wanted to thank all the coders here for all the hard work they put in. Sorry for being so long-winded about it.

[The Geek]

Thanks Martin. Its comments like this (and Erwins) that make contributers feel more appreciated than even install counts and w00t posts can.

[Martin]

aww shucks. it weren't nothin...

[Logikos]

Thanks Martin! Glad to see Jelsoft does appreciate us lonely coders. :p

[Razasharp]

I've read just the first few pages of this thread and must post in support of the coders here at vb.org - without them this site wouldn't really exist.

I personally feel Jelsoft should give something back to the coders because they actually enhance the product they sell, that essentially makes them money.

Of course being a 'coder' doesn't give them a right to talk down to, or dissrespect other users (but I don't think I've ever seen that happen) but it should mean they are respected here (even by mods), after all without them the rest of us wouldn't come here (no hacks = no vb.org).

I respect a lot of the coders here, Amy, Paul, Livewire to name a few and especially all those who release hacks for free - these coders are vB.orgs biggest assets.

Paid hack developers are not so important to vb.org - perhaps to vb.com as 'compatible' products but not to vb.org which has always been about hacking and sharing (not selling).

If a directory was added for paid hacks - I think they should expect to pay an annual listing fee with perhaps options to take out banner advertisements too, and any income should either be redistributed to the 'free' hackers or used to employ a hacker to release free hacks.

Jmo.

[Freesteyelz]

Whoa. Martin is from Honolulu. Local boyz represent!

OK...Back on topic. :classic:

[Martin]

Whoa. Martin is from Honolulu. Local boyz represent!

OK...Back on topic. :classic:

yo bruh, where you stay?

[hambil]

I just wanted to thank all the coders here for all the hard work they put in. Sorry for being so long-winded about it.
Thank you Martin, this was very good to hear :)

In return, I want to thank you and vb.com for making a product that is fun to hack :)

[Freesteyelz]

yo bruh, where you stay?

Hawaii Kai side. :classic:

[joeychgo]

I just wanted to pipe in here and say that I agree that the coders at vB.org make vBulletin a more appealing product. I handle a lot of the presales calls and tickets, and most times when a person asks about functionality that doesn't exist in vBulletin I've seen it as a mod over here and refer them to that.
There are literally hundreds of hacks over here I would love to see in the base product, but as you guys know, developing a base product is a balancing act between putting in functionality that people want and keeping the program light enough to operate on most shared hosting solutions without overloading the server.
By offering the hacks you guys do you allow us to achieve that end while still being able to point to vB.org and telling people that X function is available there.

I just wanted to thank all the coders here for all the hard work they put in. Sorry for being so long-winded about it.


AMEN!

I just have one question. Why is putting together a paid hack directory so complicated?

I built one - it wasnt very complicated: vBulletin FAQ Product and Services Reviews Directory (http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/reviews/)

It's free. Anyone can add their hacks, or leave reviews of hacks. Clearly with all the great coders here, something similar could be developed here in short order.



-

[noppid]

AMEN!

I just have one question. Why is putting together a paid hack directory so complicated?

I built one - it wasnt very complicated: vBulletin FAQ Product and Services Reviews Directory (http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/reviews/)

It's free. Anyone can add their hacks, or leave reviews of hacks. Clearly with all the great coders here, something similar could be developed here in short order.



-

Fine, you'll want access to the private coders secret forum now I bet?

[joeychgo]

Fine, now you'll want access to the private coders secret forum now I bet?


Nope... Im no coder.

[noppid]

I think I've reached the point to no return. I've been trying really hard to not come to this dissuasion, but with the way things are around here; I feel like I have no other choice but to stop releasing my work here, and supporting the hacks I have here now. Nothing around here is the same anymore. vBulletin.org used to look at the coders as the gas that runs this site, when FireFly was around. But times have changed. Now, coders are just people who release some random scripts here. The community here gives nothing back to the people who spend hours beyond hours coding something that will never make them a dime.

Yea, we got ourselves our own forums. WOOT! well this only took 5 years to happen, and now anyone who releases a hello world script can access it. What happen to this hacks database system? When are we going to see this happen? Has this even been half way coded? Will it be months beyond months until we can use this? I can totally understand that a hack like this will not just code itself, and people have real life things to deal with. So why not hand it off to a team? There are hundreds of users here that would gladly dedicate some time to help code. Instead, you leave this in the hands of one person. Who hasn't been active in god knows how long.

I'm also really really sick and tired of customers coming to this site and demanding, bashing, and degrading what this site once was. Not only do the non-coder customers do it, but lately I've seen this in allot of the staff here.

For the most part, allot of the staff here do a fine job I'm sure. When it comes to moderating the post and what not. Though the unfriendliness and lack of professional attitude amongst the staff here disgust me the most, and that's the main reason for my dissuasion to leave. Just because you have a staff title, does not make you any better then anyone else. Staff seem to forget that we are coming here as a customer and releasing our work here FREE OF CHARGE. You need to think about that every time you reply to a customer. Stop treating people that post here like a baby, or some idiotic person.

Lately Paul M has been getting alot of heat from the staff, so it seems. Why is this? Maybe because when he post he is blunt and tells it like it is.Though when you post like that, that is considered a bad thing to some of the staff here. Well you know what? Get over it and move on and keep your mouth shut or just +++++ about us in your private forums or something. I don't spend hundreds of dollars a year to come here and see others treated with disrespect. Not only others, but myself has been treated with a great deal of disrespect in the past. Directly from 3 of the staff members here now. 1 which is no longer staff anymore. (Dean).

vBulletin.org is losing allot of talented coders and something really needs to be done. Jelsoft really needs to look at this site, and control whats going on around here. Yea, Jelsoft owns this site, but they certainly don't control whats going on around here. So I'm going to continue doing what one of the staff members here said. I'm going to continue waisting my money on my own forums and open a site for commercial hacks. Yes, I'm going commercial since allot of people look down on that. But TheGeek said it best in his own post awhile back, and on the vBCast show as well. Everyone hates when people go commercial, and show know sign of support. Yet they support a commercial product such as vBulletin itself.

I'll continue to check in the coders forum from time to time. To help fellow coders out, but you will not see any more work produce and released my me on vBulletin.org. I also don't want my previous work to be trashed or deleted as allot of new members can still benefit from them. So long and farewell. Need to get ahold of me, well you can PM me or read my profile.

I'm sure this thread will eventually get closed, in hopes for it to get buried like the rest.

--
Best Regards,
Ken Iovino Jr


Historical reference.

[Martin]

AMEN!

I just have one question. Why is putting together a paid hack directory so complicated?

I built one - it wasnt very complicated: vBulletin FAQ Product and Services Reviews Directory (http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/reviews/)

It's free. Anyone can add their hacks, or leave reviews of hacks. Clearly with all the great coders here, something similar could be developed here in short order.
-

And as an individual, that's great for you to do. If someone puts a script in your directory that contains server level backdoors and that script is added to a site like mypsp.com and Sony winds up losing a lot of customer data you're not going to get sued for it since you're an individual, not a for-profit company. Your reputation as a company is not going to be dragged down all over the internet, causing you to go into bankruptcy.

[joeychgo]

And as an individual, that's great for you to do. If someone puts a script in your directory that contains server level backdoors and that script is added to a site like mypsp.com and Sony winds up losing a lot of customer data you're not going to get sued for it since you're an individual, not a for-profit company. Your reputation as a company is not going to be dragged down all over the internet, causing you to go into bankruptcy.


True. However, you dont upload hacks to my directory, only a link to your hack. Users can freely add comments regarding the hacks listed.

[Logikos]

Certain measures have to be taken in order to project Jelsoft as a company. These mesaures don't take a year, but I belive vB.org has finally got the okay from Jelsoft to add this. So I'm sure the measures are now being looked into. I'm going to assume this will take a month or two at the latest. Don't quote me on that though.

[MPDev]

Yeah, that "So long and fairwell" thing was a bit premature on your part. Better to add qualifiers like "Don't quote me on this" in the future to avoid confusion. "So long and fairwell, although don't quote me on that. I probably won't leave for more than a few minutes, really."

[kall]

For God's sake. Stop it.

The whole message here is 'Community Fixing'.

Your constant picking at it is far from achieving that aim.

[Cloud Strife]

Yeah, that "So long and fairwell" thing was a bit premature on your part. Better to add qualifiers like "Don't quote me on this" in the future to avoid confusion. "So long and fairwell, although don't quote me on that. I probably won't leave for more than a few minutes, really."

:Yawns:

[Logikos]

What can I say, MPDev loves me! :)

* Logikos huggs MPDev

[Revan]

Yeah, that "So long and fairwell" thing was a bit premature on your part. Better to add qualifiers like "Don't quote me on this" in the future to avoid confusion. "So long and fairwell, although don't quote me on that. I probably won't leave for more than a few minutes, really."Did that post have a point or were you just being a general a-hole?
If you have a problem with him sticking around after finding out his issues will be addressed, you are free to leave. And I do mean in the sense of now.

[hambil]

If you have a problem with him sticking around after finding out his issues will be addressed, you are free to leave. And I do mean in the sense of now.
* hambil agrees

[MPDev]

Don't get your panties in a bunch, girls; try to get a sense of humor and learn not to take yourself or others so seriously.

My only goal is to inject some levity in an otherwise blown-out-of-proportion event in our small world.

You drink, you fight, you get beers the next night... its what men do.

[Boofo]

/me checks his "panties" to make sure they are NOT in a bunch

[hotwheels]

lmao boofo............

I for one think that the new set up is a great idea and hopefully .org will continue to be an awesome site...........

[Boofo]

Not if I have anything to do with it. I suck, trust me on that. :cross-eyed:

[MPDev]

Look, you guys want respect, right? So, how do you think the best way is to go about getting that? Do you think you do it by making demands on the people who own the site or volunteer their time to keep it running? Have you been on the site so long that you now feel a sense of entitlement and that somehow your leaving will cause the site to crumble beneath you?

Get real.

All of us run our own sites - how do you respond to people making these kinds of demands on you or on your time? And when they get upset, complain and tell you they are leaving; how does that make you feel? All your effort, all your work is trivialized and comes down to a few posts that make the difference between enjoying a site or leaving.

Do you consider losing an Admin a positive step forward?

You may not like me making light of this situation, but pointing out the absurd is something that had to be done. I would be shocked if any of you would have put up with half as much on your own site. And that's what it comes down to, doesn't it?

My site, my rules, its not a democracy and people do not have the right to say whatever they want and say it's 'free speech'. People cannot make demands of my time anymore than I can make demands of theirs. If someone says they are leaving, I'll tell them "Thank you for your contributions and good luck in all your future endeavors.".

I would suggest the same applies here - like it? Great, we'll hang out, share some mods, talk some smack and post some more mods. Over it? Leave the way you came, with a wave and a nod. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those of us who have been around a long time have seen many posts like this and, yet, the site continues. It's evolution, folks; the site of today may not be the site of tomorrow and yet the site itself hasn't changed - the members have.

Hey, I've had my beef with the policies and the Moderators here myself. I'm a commercial developer and would like the site to be more open to those kinds of add-ons. I expressed my opinions and moved on; its up to those who pay the bills to decide how they want to proceed.

vb.org is a resource - we post our work, we take pleasure in the positive feedback and we keep doing this cycle until such a time as our schedule or the demands on our time no longer suit us.

You don't need to make demands or empty threats to get your point across; nor should your involvement take away from the pride of ownership that those who work on the site have earned.

Peace out.

[Rich]

If you have a problem with him sticking around after finding out his issues will be addressed, you are free to leave. And I do mean in the sense of now.

*Rich agrees and waves goodbye with one finger

[Boofo]

@ MPDev - Very well said, sir. ;)

*Rich agrees and waves goodbye with one finger

LOL You crack me up! ;)

[Rich]

My goal for the day was to put a smile on Boofo's face. My mission is complete and he gets a hello wave with all 5 fingers. :D

[Boofo]

Thank you, sir. Mission accomplished. ;)

[Logikos]

*Rich agrees and waves goodbye with one finger
Now thats is some funny shit!

[Revan]

Look, you guys want respect, right? So, how do you think the best way is to go about getting that? Do you think you do it by making demands on the people who own the site or volunteer their time to keep it running? Have you been on the site so long that you now feel a sense of entitlement and that somehow your leaving will cause the site to crumble beneath you?

Get real.

All of us run our own sites - how do you respond to people making these kinds of demands on you or on your time? And when they get upset, complain and tell you they are leaving; how does that make you feel? All your effort, all your work is trivialized and comes down to a few posts that make the difference between enjoying a site or leaving.

Do you consider losing an Admin a positive step forward?

You may not like me making light of this situation, but pointing out the absurd is something that had to be done. I would be shocked if any of you would have put up with half as much on your own site. And that's what it comes down to, doesn't it?

My site, my rules, its not a democracy and people do not have the right to say whatever they want and say it's 'free speech'. People cannot make demands of my time anymore than I can make demands of theirs. If someone says they are leaving, I'll tell them "Thank you for your contributions and good luck in all your future endeavors.".

I would suggest the same applies here - like it? Great, we'll hang out, share some mods, talk some smack and post some more mods. Over it? Leave the way you came, with a wave and a nod. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those of us who have been around a long time have seen many posts like this and, yet, the site continues. It's evolution, folks; the site of today may not be the site of tomorrow and yet the site itself hasn't changed - the members have.

Hey, I've had my beef with the policies and the Moderators here myself. I'm a commercial developer and would like the site to be more open to those kinds of add-ons. I expressed my opinions and moved on; its up to those who pay the bills to decide how they want to proceed.

vb.org is a resource - we post our work, we take pleasure in the positive feedback and we keep doing this cycle until such a time as our schedule or the demands on our time no longer suit us.

You don't need to make demands or empty threats to get your point across; nor should your involvement take away from the pride of ownership that those who work on the site have earned.

Peace out.You keep stating that we shouldnt expect to see changes just because we cry out, at least that's what I managed to dechipher from all the fat. Yet changes are happening. Do you think that the staff we resurrected would have simply awaked on their own and went "nah sod this, we're going to make things better for coders even if they don't complain."
In your own words, get real.
Also I can hardly see the comparison between another forum and this site. Is your site owned by a respectable company that sells their products, and your site the sole reason why a good portion of the company's customers choose that product and not one of its competitors? I think not.
Even if we disregard the Jelsoft benefit aspect of this site, I doubt your users contribute to your forum with actual hours of work that could easily be sold for a small fee.
Comparing a random forum's users to the coders at vBorg is like comparing a nugget of iron to a key. The key could be used to unlock great treasure (Jelsoft sales) and the nugget of iron can be painted yellow and sold to some dumb bastard that believes its gold.

[The Geek]

A pessimist and an optimist sit next to one another whilst reading this thread. The pessimist turns to the optimist and says "Man, this couldn't get any worse". The optimist turns to the pessimist and says "Why sure it can!".

[stinger2]

site the sole reason why a good portion of the company's customers choose that product and not one of its competitors?.

agree ..:up: .........thats also one fingure up.....but a good fingure

[Boofo]

A pessimist and an optimist sit next to one another whilst reading this thread. The pessimist turns to the optimist and says "Man, this couldn't get any worse". The optimist turns to the pessimist and says "Why sure it can!".

LOL Good one! And true. ;)

[mholtum]

Sorry to hear this. I for one hope you reconsider.

[Transverse Styles]

If you go commercial, you can guarentee your stuff will be supported

[MPDev]

A pessimist and an optimist sit next to one another whilst reading this thread. The pessimist turns to the optimist and says "Man, this couldn't get any worse". The optimist turns to the pessimist and says "Why sure it can!".

Good one, Geek. :)

I'll take Rich off Ignore now, he seems to have finally figured out how to have some fun without being ignorant.

Have fun and every day is a new one - do what you like and don't sweat the small stuff.

[Rich]

I'll take Rich off Ignore now, he seems to have finally figured out how to have some fun without being ignorant.

The finger is still waving goodbye, feel free to keep me on ignore. You aren't the first person to toss me on ignore and you likely won't be the last. I call it as I see it and some people just can't deal with that.

[MPDev]

Does this mean I can look forward to another unsolicited rambling PM laced with profanity and suggestions on how to improve myself as a person?

[The Geek]

This is what I use in times of distress or for self improvement

http://www.newrafael.com/sites/misternicehands/pmf.swf

[Boofo]

Does this mean I can look forward to another unsolicited rambling PM laced with profanity and suggestions on how to improve myself as a person?

And you might want to take notes this time. :cross-eyed:

The finger is still waving goodbye, feel free to keep me on ignore. You aren't the first person to toss me on ignore and you likely won't be the last. I call it as I see it and some people just can't deal with that.

Rich, please put that thing away before you poke someone's eye out. :cross-eyed:

[MPDev]

I bow to your wisdom, ancient one.

[Rich]

lol @ Boofo. I just have a hard time when the pot is calling the kettle black.

[Boofo]

You guys BOTH crack me up! LOL

Now go to your rooms!

[MPDev]

Let us not forget who wrote whom first, Richard; did you honestly expect anything but an equally offensive reply? Next time, ditch the profanity and keep your advice to yourself.

You will encounter a time in your life where you will need to grow up. I think its time you start displaying a bit of maturity. Its getting old seeing your lips wrapped on a staff members ass.

Not sure how one wraps their lips around someone's ass; but Rich seems to know how to make that happen.

Edit: Yes, grandfather.

[smacklan]

This is what I use in times of distress or for self improvement

http://www.newrafael.com/sites/misternicehands/pmf.swf
that is soooo perfect! (and oddly familiar) :p

[Rich]

If you are going to quote that, you should at least have quoted the entire thing! And while you are at it, why not post your response. The first line wasn't even directed at me. It started with "Livewire is a pu$$y".

The fact is you were going after someone whos points were valid and agreeing with whatever the staff had to say. That is called "brown nosing" which in turn is called "kissing ass".

The difference between you and I is that i have no problem tossing my stuff right out there for everyone to see. Like I said, I call it as i see it. You on the other hand have been on the defensive since I told you to grow up. Seems I struck a cord and you know the tune!

[MPDev]

I wouldn't call my digs at you as being defensive.... lol

Honestly, I don't have much of an opinion about you either way; you're an easy target, but now I feel like I'm taking advantage of you.

[Lottis]

Cant you two, get a room. And lock the door please. Its a flirting on high level here.
*runs out of the thread again*

[Rich]

You make my point for me MPDev. You initially posted:

I wouldn't call my digs at you as being defensive.... lol

but you just had to go in and add to it with a wise comment. You make my PM to you more valid with each post.

Lottis, who are you? Its one thing for people we know to make humerous comments, but when a stranger comes in and makes comments its like your trying to fuel a flame.

[Boofo]

You make my point for me MPDev. You initially posted:



but you just had to go in and add to it with a wise comment. You make my PM to you more valid with each post.

Lottis, who are you? Its one thing for people we know to make humerous comments, but when a stranger comes in and makes comments its like your trying to fuel a flame.

Calm down, buddy. It's all good. ;)

Lottis is fine. Good people. ;)

Let's all calm down and keep it civil, please. Discussions like this are great if we can keep them as that. Just agree to disagree. ;)

[Rich]

I thought we had Boofo when he initially posted ........ before he went in and again added another wise ass comment.

And nothing against Lottis, I just don't know who he is so his comment appears like he was trying to fuel the flames. If you say he is good people, I will believe you.

[Logikos]

/me sneaks a peek at the thread, laughs and walks away

[Rich]

<font color="SeaGreen">*Rich points at Livewire and says "It's all your fault!"</font>

[Logikos]

/me slits his wrists

[Lottis]

Lottis, who are you? Its one thing for people we know to make humerous comments, but when a stranger comes in and makes comments its like your trying to fuel a flame.
Well, it was not meaning to step on your shoes.

And fore the record, i am not trying to fuel a flame.
I am a member here, just as you. If you took it the wrong way, i really apologies.

[Revan]

* Revan rejoices
Saves me the hassle of killing him myself. He promised to put my quote back in his sig but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO :p

[Rich]

lmao @ Livewire

Lottis, I just didn't know who you were so I did take it the wrong way. no need for applogies. Thats the problem with the net in general. We can never see how people are acting when they post.

[Logikos]

* Revan rejoices
Saves me the hassle of killing him myself. He promised to put my quote back in his sig but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO :p

Link me to the post lol. There are 26 pages man. I'm a lazy dude! :p

[Boofo]

Rich, the secret to a good discussion is not taking it personally. And buttons get pushed very easily under pressure. Just relax and discuss. If someone else gets out of line, don't stoop to their level, or them to yours, whichever the case may be. It demeans the whole thread and ruins it for everyone else involved. Haven't we all had enough turmoil in the past few weels to last us for a while? I know I have. ;)






And don't make me come in here again!

* Boofo loves the power! He can crush at will!

[Lottis]

Lottis, I just didn't know who you were so I did take it the wrong way. no need for applogies. Thats the problem with the net in general. We can never see how people are acting when they post.
Members: 128,935, Active Members: 11,906
That is a very good skill, if you know who all the members here are.
Nice to meet you, i think.

[Feckie (Roger)]

And then there is me, wanting to learn more at the grand age of 55 years young. and you lot can't can't even get it together. what hope have i got to learn if you are not here to help me.

[Boofo]

Watch him Lottis, he cant be trusted, But don't tell him I said that. Shhh.....

[Lottis]

Lottis is fine. Good people. ;)

*mohahaha*
Thank you, Boofo.

Watch him Lottis, he cant be trusted, But don't tell him I said that. Shhh.....
Il take notes.:cool:

[Rich]

On this site you get familiar with certain usernames being around. I didn't recall seeing you around, so to me you were new. (I visit frequently especially as of late.)

Your right Boofo. But you should be careful about who you try to crush. From what i have heard, your a walking wrinkle and I would hate to see you throw out your back.

*Rich ducks from the cane swinging

[Lottis]

On this site you get familiar with certain usernames being around. I didn't recall seeing you around, so to me you were new. (I visit frequently especially as of late.)

I am really affended, that you dont have notice me before. *dramaqueen*
I dont have the habbit of making so mutch fuzz around me. :nervous:
Im here just to se that Revan behave him selv. Actually, im his grandma.*mohaha*

[Boofo]

/me stoops and swings again.

[Logikos]

Stop using your cane like that boofo!

[Rich]

*Rich jumps over the canes and counters with a :p

[Shelley_c]

On this site you get familiar with certain usernames being around. I didn't recall seeing you around, so to me you were new. (I visit frequently especially as of late.)

Your right Boofo. But you should be careful about who you try to crush. From what i have heard, your a walking wrinkle and I would hate to see you throw out your back.

*Rich ducks from the cane swinging

I heard he was a strapping young hunk of a guy, maybe it was chunk, hmmm. Anyhow, I was always brought up to respect my elders so be sure to change boofos nappy 3 times daily and in bed by 8. His bottle feeds are every four hours.

[Revan]

I am really affended, that you dont have notice me before. *dramaqueen*
I dont have the habbit of making so mutch fuzz around me. :nervous:
Im here just to se that Revan behave him selv. Actually, im his grandma.*mohaha*I thought you were my e-mom :p

[Lottis]

I thought you were my e-mom :p
Sorry, my mistace. Its the age thing, that makes me a littel bit fuzzy sometime. Go to bed!

[Boofo]

I'm not giving any one of you in here the satisfaction of my leaving so you can all stop trying. :cross-eyed:

[Rich]

We don't want you to leave boofo. We NEED someone to poke with a stick!

[Shaliza]

problem is its vb.org that makes vbulletin what it is.. tbh the software is ok, it could be ALOT better..

Don't get me wrong - there are some fantastic hacks, but the board by itself is great, IMO. It has a lot of features that most other boards only have as hacks.

Because I switched to vB, I only need about five hacks now. With the other board I was on, I would've needed around 14, some of which would've used up a ridiculous number of queries.

Perhaps vB could use a little more, but I like how they don't clog it up. Some people like the board the way it comes & those that want more can download hacks. It works out for everyone.

[Freesteyelz]

And buttons get pushed very easily under pressure.

Amateurs... :bunny:

[Chousho]

Don't get me wrong - there are some fantastic hacks, but the board by itself is great, IMO. It has a lot of features that most other boards only have as hacks.

Because I switched to vB, I only need about five hacks now. With the other board I was on, I would've needed around 14, some of which would've used up a ridiculous number of queries.

Perhaps vB could use a little more, but I like how they don't clog it up. Some people like the board the way it comes & those that want more can download hacks. It works out for everyone.

True true. Call me a voyeur, but I think a naked board is fine. I used to really love hacks and download them as soon as I could click, but soon I realized members didn't need a "email this to your pet's cell and have it read in a feminine voice for only a dime" hack. Basically, I just mean that alot of features are nice to have extra, but if I can't think of a purpose for them to be used with my site, then no need to have them. I still love the hackers for putting all of their time into them, though. Without your work, who knows where we'd be? (prolly back with UBB, haha).

[Marco van Herwaarden]

We don't want you to leave boofo. We NEED someone to poke with a stick!And what can we ask more for then someone who brings his own stick. ;)
:banana:

[Boofo]

LOL @ Marco

[Corriewf]

Boofo is actually a woman.... pass it on!

[Shaliza]

True true. Call me a voyeur, but I think a naked board is fine. I used to really love hacks and download them as soon as I could click, but soon I realized members didn't need a "email this to your pet's cell and have it read in a feminine voice for only a dime" hack. Basically, I just mean that alot of features are nice to have extra, but if I can't think of a purpose for them to be used with my site, then no need to have them. I still love the hackers for putting all of their time into them, though. Without your work, who knows where we'd be? (prolly back with UBB, haha).

Ha, or phpBB. *cringes*

[Dean C]

Just because things are said to be changing, doesn't mean that people still shouldn't tell it like it is.

[yessir]

A little late to this party, not a veteran admin or coder, but I have quite a bit of experience in e-commerce and webmastering. I hope those credentials pass muster.

It's too bad this thread devolved for the most part into OT joking around. This is a very important thread for vB.com, vB.org and licenced users.

I must admit that when I got my lisence I was quite excited about vb.org and what will offer me. And I have been rather disapointed. The number of mods available is fantastic, I don't have a problem with that, it is the fact I have had a lot of trouble getting help and feedback on things.
I'll agree. I found some of the coders who offer a modification and abandon support really disheartening. The fact that JumpD has jumped (pun intended) sets my upgrade and expansion plans for the summer back significantly. Enough so, that I may look at another software to provide the functionality I need because paying for custom dev will eat up all of my budget.

Was he right to jump? Was he wrong to jump? It's really not my place to say. But it does affect my board because we have become reliant on the functionality one of his mods provided, and our expansion path because we planned to utilize more of his contributions. I can guarantee that if his mods become commercial, I will be paying for them rather than take the hard road of migration and re-education of my members to a new forum system.

I have posted several threads asking for help and feedback on various things and they have all pretty much been ignored. You try asking the same question at vb.com and they keep telling you to come back here. That tells me that this place has an obligation to offer vBulletin customers quality support with modifying their forum, something I haven't been very happy with and it doesn't make a good impression for Jelsoft.

vB has an obligation to manage this forum and custom development properly. There is no way I would have purchased vB without the functionality available here, and in fact, the plugin/product system was the largest part of my decision making process. I realize that it is all non-staff contributed code and unsupported by the mother company, yet all the same they do monitor and own this site, and provide it as a *potential* avenue for custom solutions. You can't have it both ways selling a base product and then expecting to in some way control the development of 3rd party add-ons without responsibility for the value, availability or quality of those add-ons.

Perhaps look into getting more dedicated support staff? You can't rely on members to be offering support as the vast majority don't know coding, hence why they come here in the first place.
The worst thing that can happen is problems with staff. My take on this in the brief period that I have been a vB owner is that this site is the refuse bin for the stuff that .COM doesn't want to deal with. They just send you over here rather than release add-ons themselves. The core product is commercial, with an API and yet the developers themselves does not make use of their API in a commercial sense (at this time) besides providing the functionality as a key feature. It smells a little of, "go develop and beta test at vB.org" because we don't want the added hassles of enhancing our own product.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that vB is run or owned by bad people. I just think they have taken a bad business approach to the development of add-ons and the management of the community that has turned into the biggest selling feature of all time.

The good news is that they can address it. The fact that this thread wasn't locked and trashed makes me feel great about their attitude. I used a shopping cart system with both the support and 3rd party development handled through a forum. That the mods and veteran members had to provide all of the code solutions and support wore out a great many of us. Once they banned, ran off many off the great folks who built the board and developed their software that company is now in a freefall hemorraging users to competitive solutions that are less fully featured but maintain a better customer/moderator/supporter rapport.

There should be a lot of staff here. They should feel like they have an open and constructive channel to the mother company. They should be in teams, and there should be room for camarderie amongst them. And some paid staff, who have to be civil, constantly prowling in customer service mode would be a tremendous benefit to the vB business. Even if they are just guiding members towards "how to install a plugin" stickies or addressing redundant request threads by linking to the original discussion.

Take it from someone who did the volunteer thing. Cutting back that workload on the volunteer staff would probably make them more effective. Gee, effective volunteers. What an asset!

Just because things are said to be changing, doesn't mean that people still shouldn't tell it like it is.
Folks should tell it how it is. But being right, is never an excuse to be mean/rude/crass/short/ignorant. I'm not saying you are (barely read many of your posts), just that I saw too much of that early in this thread. Folks more concerned with being right than effecting change. Ego is the enemy of change.

Communication of great ideas is salesmanship and marketing. No positive results come from having a great product (idea) if you can't effectively tell (sell) people about it.

[Boofo]

Folks more concerned with being right than effecting change. Ego is the enemy of change.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

Excellent post, sir. ;)

[Freesteyelz]

Now that quote is telling it how it is. :)

[Adrian Schneider]

This is the thread that never ends,
Yes it goes on and on my friends,
Some people, starting posting not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue posting forever just because

:banana:

[Freesteyelz]

Of "Peanut Butter Jelly Time"?

[Adrian Schneider]

Of "Peanut Butter Jelly Time"?
Nope. He is just dancing to the tunes. Don't mind him.

[Freesteyelz]

All threads of such nature should end with a dance.

[Roms]

I realize that the staff is probably keeping this thread open as to not look like they don't care about members opinions.... but I think it's run its course...

I think I've had enough of the I think I've had enough thread.....

[Paul M]

It has rather served it's purpose now.

[Chris M]

I agree - If anyone feels this has been closed incorrectly please feel free to PM me with an explanation as to why you feel this way, but for now, closed :)

Chris