So...You have $7000 to go into developing a site based on a forum, what do YOU do

[John Diver]

Hey,
This is actually a situation I am in right now.

I am putting $7000 towards the development of one of my sites, www.DeuceAce.com

The site is a poker forum mainly with a few extra things, articles, reviews, directory etc. but nothing else major.

The forum isn't exactly new, there are 200+ members and just under 3000 posts, but I would still consider it as very new and will be working on it as if I just launched it.

I am starting to budget what I will use the $7000 on.
I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.

So..you have just over $6000 to build up a poker forum, it?s a highly competitive industry but I feel there is still space for another, quality forum.

The money can be spent on development, content advertising/marketing or anything you think would help improve and develop the community.

So...what are your first steps and what do you use the money for?

[Asi9ine]

Well.

I wouldn't recommend you spend all of that mate in all honesty. I believe you can find a top-notch designer for 1500-2000. I have no sites to recommend sadly, but I would hope that you don't waste what strong money reserve you have in the preliminary stages.

[amykhar]

I would put most of the money in the bank and buy a good php book. :D When the forum got big enough, I'd pull out some of the money and pay for a dedicated server.

[AlexUK]

I dont think you need to spend all that money to make your forums or site better.
There are lots of good communities out there that spent much less than that and are good.

I would advise you to be very careful how you spend it and do not tell everyone you have that much to spend as you dont want people charging you extra because they know you have more.

Try and get good deals and dont accept first price.

[smacklan]

I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.

They're good...but no custom skin is worth $800 lol. You've gotten some good advise here...don't throw your money away on things that won't bring you a return.

[Princeton]

For starters:

A design should be the last step in this process -- right now, you are throwing your money away. I gaurantee that you will need modifications/additions done to it later on.
Products that you should have:
Dedicated Server
Custom Portal
Custom Articles System
A Sponsors System (a system that is simple and which a member has control over ... eg. options, etc)
Try to stay with vBulletin products (products run by vb core files/functions), adding 3rd-party apps will only increase your workload.
Get yourself a good copywriter - this is where all sites fail ... without a message you will never increase conversion rate. Your message should pass the AIDAS Test:
A - Grab their ATTENTION.
I - Strengthen INTEREST.
D - Stimulate DESIRE.
A - Get them to take ACTION.
S - SATISFY them.Only after you have done all of the above should you advertise. Advertising in a poker magazine will drive traffic to your site. You will be surprised on how much traffic advertising in the right place can do for a site.


Good Luck

[Princeton]

They're good...but no custom skin is worth $800 lol. You've gotten some good advise here...don't throw your money away on things that won't bring you a return.
I disagree ... with the right design, $800 or more could be worth the price.
It all depends on how user-friendly the design is.

[smacklan]

I disagree ... with the right design, $800 or more could be worth the price.
It all depends on how user-friendly the design is.
Coming from the industry I am in, with the contacts and knowledge I have, I guarantee you that $800 is too much to spend on a custom design. You can have a design created by a top designer for less than $400 (probably more like $300) and coded by top coders for less than $250.

[Princeton]

anyone can create a "design" ... only a few can create a "winning design"

[AlexUK]

It all depends how unique the design is I believe.

[smacklan]

anyone can create a "design" ... only a few can create a "winning design"
This is true...but I will stick with my previous post. Too many people are duped into believing that it takes ridiculous amounts of money to get award winning, unique designs and that simply isn't the case. With a little research, networking and patience affordable outstanding and unique designs are readily available. The best vB skin coder in the business doesn't charge more than $250 to code designs either.

[kartik786]

Aah.. I am a management student and run a forum for management students.

Here is what I feel should be done.

Use google adwords, and the like for marketing the site. Get into some good banner exchange programs .. that takes care of marketing part .

Put some interesting features like cash prizes or tshirts custom made having your site name on it ... for the winners who score ***** points . ( which should be very hard yet achievable ) .. this takes care of marketing as well as makes it interesting.

Well.. busy rite now.. wil try to post more tips later.

PS : Tip intellegent people like me a $ or 10 to give you suggestions. My paypal id (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=kartik%2eraichura%40gmail%2ecom&no_shipping=0&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8)

[SaN-DeeP]

For starters:

A design should be the last step in this process -- right now, you are throwing your money away. I gaurantee that you will need modifications/additions done to it later on.
Products that you should have:
Dedicated Server
Custom Portal
Custom Articles System
A Sponsors System (a system that is simple and which a member has control over ... eg. options, etc)
Try to stay with vBulletin products (products run by vb core files/functions), adding 3rd-party apps will only increase your workload.
Get yourself a good copywriter - this is where all sites fail ... without a message you will never increase conversion rate. Your message should pass the AIDAS Test:
A - Grab their ATTENTION.
I - Strengthen INTEREST.
D - Stimulate DESIRE.
A - Get them to take ACTION.
S - SATISFY them.Only after you have done all of the above should you advertise. Advertising in a poker magazine will drive traffic to your site. You will be surprised on how much traffic advertising in the right place can do for a site.


Good Luck
nice recommendations princeton.

[DirectPixel]

This is true...but I will stick with my previous post. Too many people are duped into believing that it takes ridiculous amounts of money to get award winning, unique designs and that simply isn't the case. With a little research, networking and patience affordable outstanding and unique designs are readily available. The best vB skin coder in the business doesn't charge more than $250 to code designs either. There's a big difference between simply making a skin for vBulletin and actually doing custom integration work and doing more than just giving the vBulletin a pretty look.

I can personally tell you that of all the vBulletin-related projects I've worked on over the years (at least 50 or 60 by now), I'd say only a small 10% of them were below $800. Those are generally small and quick projects that I do in my spare time on my own for my own enjoyment.

Site evaluations, usability studies, user scenario testing, and the various other elements of the design workflow in and of themselves is often worth more than $800.

The best vB skin coder in the business doesn't charge more than $250 to code designs either.So you mean to say that somebody has to code the designer's work? A good designer needs to know more than just how to create Photoshop mockups. They need to be extremely familiar with the software and be able to implement whatever they come up with. How can you design an effective user experience if you don't even know how to code your final product?

But then again, I believe we cater to two different sets of customers with different budgets. ;)

[Tony G]

$7000 on a site? I think there's much better ways to use that money to be honest. If you want to make more money - invest in something a bit more worthwhile.

[smacklan]

But then again, I believe we cater to two different sets of customers with different budgets. ;)
We do ;) Many of the people who come to my site looking for custom work (which I don't do) are just looking for a unique look on a limited budget. The world is full of top notch freelance forum skin designers who do not code. Additionally, there are many who code but don't design.

[Logikos]

I fall into the "I can code anything, but can't design much" category. Also, I would take Princeton suggestions ;)

[vol_freak]

For starters:

A design should be the last step in this process -- right now, you are throwing your money away. I gaurantee that you will need modifications/additions done to it later on.
Products that you should have:
Dedicated Server
Custom Portal
Custom Articles System
A Sponsors System (a system that is simple and which a member has control over ... eg. options, etc)
Try to stay with vBulletin products (products run by vb core files/functions), adding 3rd-party apps will only increase your workload.
Get yourself a good copywriter - this is where all sites fail ... without a message you will never increase conversion rate. Your message should pass the AIDAS Test:
A - Grab their ATTENTION.
I - Strengthen INTEREST.
D - Stimulate DESIRE.
A - Get them to take ACTION.
S - SATISFY them.Only after you have done all of the above should you advertise. Advertising in a poker magazine will drive traffic to your site. You will be surprised on how much traffic advertising in the right place can do for a site.


Good Luck

I think that is a great post, thanks. How would a peson go about getting a custom article system and a sponsor system?

[yinyang]

1. since it is a poker site, i'd spend some money on a one-of-a-kind POKER game that is fully integratable with vbulletin.

2. put your server off shore so you don't get your server seized since now you're running a gambling site.

3. since you're house, you take 10% of all pots played.

4. advertise advertise advertise.

[Ziki]

Hey,
This is actually a situation I am in right now.

I am putting $7000 towards the development of one of my sites, www.DeuceAce.com

The site is a poker forum mainly with a few extra things, articles, reviews, directory etc. but nothing else major.

The forum isn't exactly new, there are 200+ members and just under 3000 posts, but I would still consider it as very new and will be working on it as if I just launched it.

I am starting to budget what I will use the $7000 on.
I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.

So..you have just over $6000 to build up a poker forum, it?s a highly competitive industry but I feel there is still space for another, quality forum.

The money can be spent on development, content advertising/marketing or anything you think would help improve and develop the community.

So...what are your first steps and what do you use the money for?


whoa.I got only 31 members and about 2000 posts O_O
You got 200 and only 3000?

[b34ch3r]

That really doesn't mean anything - especially considering the difference in subject matter.

I'd say they were both good statistics.

Delving into it, I may have come across a reason why you've got such a better ratio of posts to members:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2006/04/6.jpg

[Ziki]

Yeah I would like more members but I rather like it this way :D

[pcoskat]

I think that is a great post, thanks. How would a peson go about getting a custom article system and a sponsor system?
Yeah, I'd like to know that, too.

Only after you have done all of the above should you advertise. Advertising in a poker magazine will drive traffic to your site. You will be surprised on how much traffic advertising in the right place can do for a site.
I really like these ideas, however, with the exception of Google AdWords, I would put a PR campaign OVER advertising in magazines.

A magazine or newspaper article 'about' you or your site...or even a quote from you with your web address will go FAR further when it comes to traffic (and credibility) than an ad. Plus PR costs WAY less than advertising.

My site has never advertised, but we've benefitted greatly from regular press mentions in national magazines and newspapers. Plus when it comes to people who want to advertise on your site, they are more likely to spend more on sites that get good press. Good press for you, is good press for them.

Getting good PR can only be helped by a nice-looking site. Of course, nice-looking is a subjective term, but if for your $800 you get the 'vision' you want to convey - I say it's money well spent if your entire site is built on vb 'portal'.

If, on the other hand your board is just part of a larger site, a prefab skin is fine (in my opinion).

Going back to the PR issue...it's an area worth looking into. You'll thank me later.:bunny:

[PennylessZ28]

pay myself $7000 for 1 hour of work

[influence]

That really doesn't mean anything - especially considering the difference in subject matter.

I'd say they were both good statistics.

Delving into it, I may have come across a reason why you've got such a better ratio of posts to members:

http://imgfly.com/files/130406_012336/hmm.JPG



OWNED*

that right there cracked me up

[Razasharp]

anyone can create a "design" ... only a few can create a "winning design"

Completely agree. The look and feel of a site is extremely important... it's what can set you apart from your competitors. However I'm not talking about forum skinners here I'm talking about professional companies creating fresh eye catching designs for your entire site. Unfortunately for most people it's not easy finding a world class desinger these days, and it's certainly not as cheap as $800.

[pcoskat]

Completely agree. The look and feel of a site is extremely important... it's what can set you apart from your competitors. However I'm not talking about forum skinners here I'm talking about professional companies creating fresh eye catching designs for your entire site. Unfortunately for most people it's not easy finding a world class desinger these days, and it's certainly not as cheap as $800.
I dunno...

PlentyOfFish is about the most unattactive site on the web, and it does rockin' traffic.

My site didn't have professional designs until we were well over 25,000 members. Even today, the members don't like me to mess with the design too much.

I like a pretty site, as much as the next person, but design never trumps content.

[Razasharp]

I didn't say it did - just that if you have two competing sites which were roughly the same, but one was designed professionaly and one was not... the better designed site would do better :)

The more competitve the market the more you need to stand out - lots of people can add hacks and plug-ins to get similar functionality, but 'winning-designs' are not so easy to come by.

[pcoskat]

I didn't say it did - just that if you have two competing sites which were roughly the same, but one was designed professionaly and one was not... the better designed site would do better :)
I still disagree. Especially if the 'lesser designed' site has a better marketing/pr plan...

[Razasharp]

....just that if you have two competing sites which were roughly the same, but one was designed professionaly and one was not... the better designed site would do better :)

I said if all else was roughly the same. Obviously the whole package plays a part but most other things 'can' be equal (when you knuckle down to it) but winning design is much harder to come by.

[Princeton]

I still disagree. Especially if the 'lesser designed' site has a better marketing/pr plan...this is not about comparing sites ... this is about what makes a site a BIG success

content (most of your resources should go into content)
good design / usable interface / colors
marketing/prJust imagine where you would be today if you started with a 'professional' design.

You could have 2 out of the 3 (from the above list); but, 'success' would take longer and it would be harder to achieve.
0

[Freesteyelz]

anyone can create a "design" ... only a few can create a "winning design"

Heh. :banana:

[pcoskat]

this is not about comparing sites ... this is about what makes a site a BIG success

content (most of your resources should go into content)
good design / usable interface / colors
marketing/prJust imagine where you would be today if you started with a 'professional' design.

You could have 2 out of the 3 (from the above list); but, 'success' would take longer and it would be harder to achieve.
0
I completely understand the point you two are trying to make. What you fail to understand, however, is that I disagree.

My site started around the same time as one with a more 'professional' design, however, we currently have double the members. Mainly due to very good content, excellent site structure and navigation, and very good PR. (By good PR, I mean good articles and mentions in national press)

There's no need to try to convince me of what you feel is the huge importance of a so-called 'winning design'. We'll just have to agree to disagree. k?

[Princeton]

LOL ... you didn't have a "professional" design if you had to drop it

my 8 year old could make a "professional" design

I agree ... let's leave this as-is.

[kriscad]

build the site for 1k, then spend the other 6k on the small ads in the back of CardPlayer Magazine

[Adrian Schneider]

Hey,
This is actually a situation I am in right now.

I am putting $7000 towards the development of one of my sites, www.DeuceAce.com

The site is a poker forum mainly with a few extra things, articles, reviews, directory etc. but nothing else major.

The forum isn't exactly new, there are 200+ members and just under 3000 posts, but I would still consider it as very new and will be working on it as if I just launched it.

I am starting to budget what I will use the $7000 on.
I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.

So..you have just over $6000 to build up a poker forum, it’s a highly competitive industry but I feel there is still space for another, quality forum.

The money can be spent on development, content advertising/marketing or anything you think would help improve and develop the community.

So...what are your first steps and what do you use the money for?
DeuceAce eh... you're famous ;)
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375113&highlight=Deuce%20Ace

[pcoskat]

Design, notwithstanding, I HIGHLY recommend spending a significant portion of your budget on PR. Not advertising. Not marketing. True Public Relations. By that, I don't mean press releases, either.

Join a good media service so you see what journalists are writing about. A solid mention in an article about your site will be worth more than any ad (or so-called winning design)

Are you an 'expert' in poker? Offer quotes and commentary to journalists on the topic.

Back when my site was just a 'patch work quilt' we were mentioned in USA Today, and the traffic from the article nearly crashed my site. Years later, I'm still getting traffic from the online version of the article.

You might even want to hire a good ghostwriter to write a few articles about your site, and submit them to online poker magazines, or other magazines looking for poker-related content.

Don't JUST go for poker magazines...also consider places like 'airline' magazines. Their readership is high, and many readers take articles of interest with them.

DeuceAce eh... you're famous ;)
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375113&highlight=Deuce%20Ace
Thanks for posting this...very interesting.

[John Diver]

Sorry, but what is a ghostwriter?

I know nothing about the PR side of things but I'm starting to realise that its a lot more important than I thought.

If I can get some attention to the site by methods that isn't actually advertising, some articles on sites with links to the site would be great.

I'm going to take a good look into getting a writer to do articles and include links to my site.

My budget has actually gone up now so I really need to start getting a plan into action.

My new design is almost complete, I just PMed the person that started that thread on SP, that wasn't a design I got from vbulletinskinz.com, not sure if it was just filler text or what..My skin is totally different from that.

Thanks for posting that link SirAdrian, I didn't see that post before :)

Thanks to EVERYONE that is giving suggestions, I have put a lot of thought into a lot of them and I will be using them :)
Still looking for any others if anyone has ideas floating around ;)

[Adrian Schneider]

If I had $7000 dollars to invest in a website, I would probably spend most of that just buying an existing one because in 10 months or so you have already made that money back. I guess it kind of acts as a nice secondary income.

Since this is about forums and not just a random site... I would probably start a community site for my local area, because the one we have pretty much stinks... Maybe even something like Craigs List so users can buy stuff. Just looking at the school district marketplace (my father is a teacher), there are a ton of people selling/buying things here.

As far as spending goes: I would build it myself, maybe pay someone to design it, but not 1000$, because most of the great sites have simple layouts (few graphics!). The only thing I can see costing money is hosting fees if it grows large, but the ad revenue should cover most of that.

[pcoskat]

Sorry, but what is a ghostwriter?
A ghostwriter is someone who is hired to write something on your behalf. It's done all the time in the publishing business. If you ever wonder how some authors crank out so many books, or how celebs write their books - many times they're ghostwritten.

In your case, if you're an expert in one or more aspects of poker, but you're not necessarily a writer, you could formulate a great 'outline' of an article, and have a ghostwriter pen it for you. Then submit it to publications with your byline and website.

Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).

It may 'seem' small, but one mention like that in an article in the entertainment section of USA Today will go far - trust me ;)

[Kurisu]

Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).


Sounds interesting. Could you give us a few sites?

[gavinzac]

Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).
that sounds good, i run a psychological help & advice site so mentions in articles about those issues would be great.

[pcoskat]

Sounds interesting. Could you give us a few sites?
The one I've used for years is domestic only.

You might want to check with PR Web to see if they're international (I notice you're in Germany)

There are some VERY good ghostwriters at elance who can write some awesome stuff for reasonable prices.

[John Diver]

Taking a look into this today :)

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Smiry Kin's]

Some one could prob code you your own poker scripts/styles/mods/ and give you support forever for that amount of money..

[John Diver]

I am interested in getting poker mods done but I just need to get the ideas first ;) hehe

Do you have any ideas yourself?

Thanks everyone!

I think that is a great post, thanks. How would a peson go about getting a custom article system and a sponsor system?

I'm interested in knowing some more info on what your thinking for the sponsor system as well :)

[masons]

Its great to read this thread... more so since the guy obviously had his skin made, and very well, and now the forum seems to be very busy indeed..

Can you please give back some advise on what you did and didnt do, and help this community by allowing others to learn from your obvious success.

[CDarklock]

Seconded. I'm always interested in hearing others' success stories, especially as I'm just beginning to put some muscle behind my own community-in-development.

And I don't know what people are on about with $7K being too much to spend on a forum so just buy one. By the time a forum is worth buying, you're looking at price tags in the $20K range, and the owners have invested quite nearly that in professional services. It's not at all dumb to invest $7K in a new business opportunity, and it's pretty smart to ask advice before you decide how to invest it.

[no mods]

7K$, oh my, haha, never ever would I spend that much money on ONE forum, nope, no way no how.

[CDarklock]

7K$, oh my, haha, never ever would I spend that much money on ONE forum, nope, no way no how.

With that attitude, how much do you want to bet you'll never have a forum that makes anything remotely approximating a real income?

A well-built community site can provide three to five people with a reasonable annual salary. Trouble is, it takes real time, money, and effort to make those sites work.

[no mods]

I have a forum for fun, not for money making, dont even have adds on it.

[CDarklock]

I have a forum for fun, not for money making

So... doesn't that mean I'm right?

I don't see your point.

[chanthuyen]

I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.



Expensive skin, but looks bad. :cool: