Amend Service Request forum description

[Princeton]

THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION BETWEEN FREE AND COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS.

I hope you'll agree that vb.org is a good place to find "help" or "beta testers" for addons that are under "construction".

With that said, we (coders) need a place where we can invite the community to become "Beta Testers and/or Helpers", etc for upcoming addons.

Beta Testers / Helpers are good for...



test product
review code
write FAQ/Manual
marketing
etc
Yes, this is ignoring the fact that a product can be released freely (posted here on vb.org) or released commercially.

Yes, I do believe that these requests should be allowed here. However, I don't believe it should be up for discussion -- such as it is here: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=104043.

In the above thread (provided link), all Ron1n is asking for is help to improve his addons .. nothing more. Right away, we have a few people questioning his intentions. Can't we just have a place where we can post such requests without people discussing our "intentions"? Is there anything wrong with such a request?

NOT ASKING FOR A LOT
What I recommend is rephrasing the Service Request Forum description to allow such requests within this forum.


Requests are not open for discussion.
"Service providers" are usually the ones interested in this forum.
"Service providers" are the best fit for such a request.

[Paul M]

:up:

[Corriewf]

Beta testing would bring a lot to the community. I love beta testing. GOOD IDEA!

Lemme know if you need a beta test btw. :)

[Regs]

2 days.

[Tony G]

With that thread you were referring to, it was perfectly fine for the intentions of the person requesting beta testers to be asked. Why on earth would we allow someone to use our community to get beta testers and then see them not release the hack here but somewhere else, for example?

In my opinion, General Mod Discussion is still a suitable place to post these requests. If the mod is going to be released on vB.org, we'd encourage discussion about the hack on our forum. That is, after all, what vB.org is for. With Service Requests where no discussion occurs, changes occur elsewhere, and it usually only involves 2 people. With beta tester requests, it involves a lot more people and its probably easier to have a public thread to use.

[nexialys]

i'm ok with that myself, i never intended to attack Ron1n, as my post stated that IF it was supposed to be released here there was no trouble...

my point on that thread was that i've seen 2 or 3 times this year (2005) some guys asking for testers and never release the codes here for some reasons...

this site is not intended to the coders that need testers for their own purposes, but for a community that share ... there are so many people complaining about paid hacks, these questions have to be asked, that's all...

[Princeton]

With that thread you were referring to, it was perfectly fine for the intentions of the person requesting beta testers to be asked.Could you explain what do you mean with the above ... and (here's the contradiction) below.. :confused:Why on earth would we allow someone to use our community to get beta testers.Sorry but I don't see how this will hurt the community?

If the mod is going to be released on vB.org, we'd encourage discussion about the hack on our forum. That's the point ... no one really "knows" if a mod will be released freely. This is why everyone is questioning the author's intentions.

That is, after all, what vB.org is for.Can anyone tell me exactly what is the official description of vb.org?
Since there are so many (I hear everybody saying something different), I will add mine to the pot.

Nice and simple ;)
vB.org is the premier place for vBulletin code-hackers to congregate.
vB.org is the place where vBulletin administrators can find or request addons to extend or add features found in vBulletin forum software.


In Summary
When someone makes a request for beta testers ... regardless of what the author says there is still no assurance that the product will be made freely available. This is why I recommend that the SERVICE REQUEST forum be amended. When posting such requests in a closed forum, such as the SERVICE REQUEST forum, it will limit the backlash that has been occuring; it will give the authors what they need while providing addons (free or otherwise) to the vBulletin community; and, it will decrease the staff workload on something that shouldn't have to be addressed.

[Lizard King]

I think this discussion started after vbseo. He claimed that he is going to release a beta version of his vbseo hack but he never did. What happened he used vb.org for free and targeted advertisement.

Of course noone can know if the coder will release the hack for free or not but therer can be a deadline for the coder to release the code. Even if it is not finished the coder can release it as a beta and if the coder will not release the hack within the allowed time limits then the thread can be removed. The time limit shall not be so quick but it also shall not be so long like 1-2 month.

[Ron1n]

Actually, Princeton started this discussion for me (view thread here: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=104043%29).

We already have beta forums for 3.0 and 2.0... why not get one for 3.5?

I know you can checkmark a release in 3.5 as a "beta" but no one even looks at that and 90% of the users think that beta means "it works great - just dont +++++ if you havbe problems." The word beta has been bastardized by google who still has gmail in beta even though millions of people use it worldwide (same with maps, froogle, etc).

Coders can make hacks that work perfectly on their own boards but then run into trouble when installing on other peoples boards because of hack conflicts, styles, missing instructions, operating systems, mysql and PHP versions, etc. We need a place to post REAL betas or even post requests for beta testers.

In my opinion, General Mod Discussion is still a suitable place to post these requests.Yea, except that the only people that look in General Mod Discussion are coders (for the most part). If we had a BETA or SERVICE section then there would be a much larger pool of peopl to whom your hack might appeal and by which it may be tested.

[Tony G]

Sorry but I don't see how this will hurt the community?

You don't, do you? vB.org is based around people contributing hacks to this forum. That's the purpose of vB.org after all. These hacks have brought quite a few people to this forum, as you can see. Now, if people USE (I don't use that term lightly) us to get beta testers and then release their work elsewhere, it ends up not contributing anything to vB.org after using its very valuable resources. This in turn harms our community. It is using our resources and not giving anything in return for them - like a nice, helpful, handy hack for the community to use. Oh, and I like how you completly cut out the next part of my sentence in that quote, did you perhaps not realise it was the most important part?

Can anyone tell me exactly what is the official description of vb.org?

-Release modifications (hack and template)
-Talk about vB

Nice and simple. :)

Back to the purpose of this thread, I can't really tell you whether this idea will go ahead or not. I doubt it, as we hardly ever get beta tester requests and it wouldn't warrent a whole new forum, but the admins and other mods together can decide that.

[Princeton]

As stated on my first post, this has nothing to do with commerical or free addons. It has a lot to do with supporting vBulletin code-hackers at all levels.

I do not believe that these requests should be available for discussion.


In some cases, this only leads to "promoting" the product.
Some beta-tester requests (products) are never made available to the public (free or commercial)
Some professionals would prefer not to have beta-testing available to the masses. eg. Beta forums
Some professionals would like to get help on creating FAQ and/or Manual writing etc vb.org does not have the resources (nor should they) in providing authors the ability to track such events.
SOLUTION

Do not allow discussion of such requests here on vb.org.
Amend the SERVICE REQUEST FORUM and allow such requests to be submitted there.
Do not allow the inclusion of product name. (minimize the promoting of product)
Such a solution would promote better addons (free or commercial).
Such a solution would promote the request for a limited time only. eg. It will not be bumped because of "discussions" going on.

-Release modifications (hack and template)
-Talk about vBJust curious ... Is that the official description of vb.org?

[Ron1n]

Or they could just run it like they run 2.0 and 3.0...

Now, if people USE (I don't use that term lightly) us to get beta testers and then release their work elsewhere, it ends up not contributing anything to vB.org after using its very valuable resources.So... lets just take this small risk and use it as an excuse to have coders release crappy first mods with tons of bugs.

If it were in a forum, you could have actual releases that were betas (like 2.0 and 3.0) and you wouldnt have to worry about people not releasing it to the public or trying to sell it because the beta would be available to everyone.

And to your comment about not being used... what look at the 3.0 and 2.0 forums which have 150-250 threads and several thousand messages. Thats not even including all of the threads that were posted and then moved to the appropriate forum once they were completed.

[Tony G]

Just curious ... Is that the official description of vb.org?

No. Go ask at vB.com if you want an official description for whatever reason. But I told you what vB.org is and I would have hoped you'd know by now too. :p

[Princeton]

No. Go ask at vB.com if you want an official description for whatever reason. But I told you what vB.org is and I would have hoped you'd know by now too.

Sorry, I don't mean to be pushing your buttons... :squareeyed:
but don't you think that should be here? :o

No need to reply to that ... just something you guys should think about.
(let's get back to the subject)

[MRGTB]

Well I think if a person wanting Beta Testers wants to advertise for them here. He should provide certain information by default. Remember vBSeo used Beta Testers and he still made them pay for his product in the end. But then he never said they "WOULD "get a free version for helping to beta test it!

So, if a person wants "Beta Testers" they should!

1: State if the hack is going to FREE or PAID. And if it's going to be a commercial paid hack, they should let possible beta testers know if they will get the hack for free in the end for helping beta test the paid product as a reward for helping to beta test it. (that should be made quite clear if it's going to be a paid commercial hack). Otherwise beta testers are just being used for free to help a commercial hack make money for that person who created it only, with no gains for the beta testers efforts!

2: Say if the hack is being beta tested to be released on vB.org (If not he or she should not be allowed to ask for Beta Testers here). We don't need every man and his dog from other sites using vB.org as place to poach beta testers for there own personal gains on other sites away from vb.org.

4: Is the hack FREE or COMMERCIAL, and will there be a free light version released if it's a paid hack.

[Princeton]

Well I think if a person wanting Beta Testers wants to advertise for them here. He should provide certain information by default. Remember vBSeo used Beta Testers and he still made them pay for his product in the end.

If a person wants Beta Testers they should!

1: State if the hack is going to FREE or PAID. And if it's going to be a commercial paid hack, they should let beta testers know if they will get it for free in the end for helping beta test the paid hack as a reward. (that should be made quite clear if it's going to be a paid commercial hack).

2: Say if the hack is being beta tested to be released on vB.org (If not he or she should not be allowed to ask for Beta Testers here).

Regardless of what they say, you really don't know what the final outcome will be.
eg. They could turn around and do the opposite of what they say.

Request should ask for whatever it is that they are seeking (eg. testers, writers, etc) and describe the product without putting a name to it.

[MRGTB]

Regardless of what they say, you really don't know what the final outcome will be.
eg. They could turn around and do the opposite of what they say.

Request should ask for whatever it is that they are seeking (eg. testers, writers, etc) and describe the product without putting a name to it.

My only concern here is this - I don't like it when you get a coder asking for Beta Testers, while at the same time not giving much other information about things. Beta Testers play an important roll in helping to iron out bugs and offer the server and forum software for free to help a coder release a good hack free of bugs.

They should get rewarded for this, I just don't think it's fair when a coder says: (Hey I need some beta testers, anybody up for it). Then after testings complete, they come out and say the hack will cost so much to buy!

I would prefare to see a site guidline introduced were things have to be made much more clear by coders asking for Beta Testers free services, so they are not fooled into thinking the hacks going to be free when it's not in the end.

Which they will have to buy even after beta testing.

[Revan]

Regardless of what they say, you really don't know what the final outcome will be.
eg. They could turn around and do the opposite of what they say.One word: Banstick.

[Paul M]

No one is going to "poach" beta testers - I'm sure they can make up their own minds as to whether they will help test a hack based on the information given (such as will it be free, will it be released here). No one is forced to be a beta tester.

[MRGTB]

No one is going to "poach" beta testers - I'm sure they can make up their own minds as to whether they will help test a hack based on the information given (such as will it be free, will it be released here). No one is forced to be a beta tester.
Yes, thats right. But it would be nice of coders to tell Beta Testers first if there creating a paid hack that they will have to pay for even after they beta test it. At least make them fully aware right from the start.

Rather than tell them it's going to be a paid hack after they have finished beta testing and the coder no longer needs there services. :rolleyes:

PS: Paul M have you ever lived in the North West in a pie eating town, you have the same name as a person I used to know and go to school with who was into computers

[Ron1n]

I am arguing for the creation of a beta forum with releases in it

The forum would be for people who are releasing public mods, not private mods for sale. If people violate that, then they can be banned.

Well I think if a person wanting Beta Testers wants to advertise for them here...They wouldnt be ADVERTISING for beta testers, they would be providing beta hacks for people to test out.

If people really wanted to take advantage of vB.org they could just post unfinished (beta) mods as final products and then fix the bugs as they occured. Then they could not release a final working version and just delete their thread. Not creating a beta section will not solve this problem.

One bad apple (vBSeo) should not spoil everything.

Also, you need to take into account the negative effects of not having a beta section:

a) Betas are released as finals and many users have problems.
b) Betas are released in the regular forum but marked betas - but ignorant users (and 90% of the people on this forum are) ignore the fact that it is a beta and use it even though they dont know what they are doing.