Why does vBulletin allow this?

[Lottis]

I have seen a hack, witch i reported yesterday.
Nothing has been done with this.
This hack, sends out a message in the hack witch i find defending.
If vBullitin has a policy that allows sutch hidden message, it will dissapoint me alot.
The hack is Borgs who is the owner. And i really like the hack, but the message is totally discusting. I hope some of you can react to this now, because reporting it, dident seem to do the trick.
Just remove the Nazi stuff, pls.

[dreamer81]

what hack are u talking about ?? link?? url??

[Borgs8472]

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=103257
My very first complaint thread! :D

Hi and, no.

Good for long posts and portals especially, have images that text can wrap around! The titles are from my board, you may wish to use names such as 'imgl' and 'imgr'...
I think that's sufficient disclaimer on the words there. They're a joke because on my (politically centered) forums, many people accuse people in favour of censorship or right wing views, people will accuse one another of being nazis at the drop of a hat.

If anyone's at all liberal or left wing, the commie insults are mentioned just like that also. In the same vein, I took these 'far right' and 'far left' names to be used in the 'float left' and 'float right' tags, however I mentioned that other names like imgr or imgl could be used.

[ConqSoft]

Man, and I thought I had seen some worthless threads in the past.... :D

[Lottis]

Man, and I thought I had seen some worthless threads in the past.... :D
So why bother answere it then?

I dont find this "joke" funny at all.

[ConqSoft]

Why, are you a commie?

[Lottis]

Why, are you a commie?
No, im none of this. Nazi ore commie. I find them both not worty mention on a hacking place. Are you?

[Borgs8472]

Whilst I agree controvercial language does not have a place in code modifications, the fact remains that I use these tags because there are used by users and thus the more memorable the bbcode is, the more likely they are to use it.

[ConqSoft]

Whilst I agree controvercial language does not have a place in code modifications, the fact remains that I use these tags because there are used by users and thus the more memorable the bbcode is, the more likely they are to use it.

I agree.

[amykhar]

Stepping in here because I noticed the complaint yesterday and we are actively discussing the issue on my own forum. First off, I didn't find the terms offensive and thought the complaint was an oversensitivity. Upon discussion with some very rational people though, I have learned that many people DO find it offensive.

http://www.eaforums.com/forums/symposium/43111-word-nazi-offensive.html

At this point, I'm of the opinion that you don't want your code to insult people or tick them off. If your members are fine with it, leave the words as is. But, because somebody has said they were bothered by the posting of those word choices here, I think the polite thing to do would be to change them here. No harm, no foul. Just good manners.

But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

[nexialys]

... i really don't appreciate people that always complain about words like "nazi" or "punk" or jewish" ... please, complaining about these words uses IS a proof of racism and it's really what makes these words horrible to read.

go to google and search for "nazi" ... search also on wikipedia or any good web resources, and you will have loads or references to that word... 99% of them are NOT propaganda...

if you can't live with different opinions, you will have to learn a little... ok, maybe it's an american way to deal with what they want to fear ...

Thank you amykhar, fore charing that discussion.
Perhaps i was being sensitive. But i was looking at his site to make up my mind why he was using those words, that actually pissed me really off.
The first discussion i was reading, was ;Im happy to bee wite. Ore another "Black peopel are stupid". Then i got angry.
problem here is that you don't have to go to his site and read its content to evaluate the real HACK itself... vB.org guys will NEVER visit a coder's website to evaluate if a hack can be displayed or not, and that's what you want them to do...

EDIT: this Lottis Quote was made before he delete his own post, so it's not an illusion!

[Lottis]

... i really don't appreciate people that always complain about words like "nazi" or "punk" or jewish" ... please, complaining about these words uses IS a proof of racism and it's really what makes these words horrible to read.


Why does it have to be sutch words in it?
You guyes make good hacks and actually dont need to put affesive words in it to get attention ?

... i really don't appreciate people that always complain about words like "nazi" or "punk" or jewish" ... please, complaining about these words uses IS a proof of racism and it's really what makes these words horrible to read.

go to google and search for "nazi" ... search also on wikipedia or any good web resources, and you will have loads or references to that word... 99% of them are NOT propaganda...

if you can't live with different opinions, you will have to learn a little... ok, maybe it's an american way to deal with what they want to fear ...


problem here is that you don't have to go to his site and read its content to evaluate the real HACK itself... vB.org guys will NEVER visit a coder's website to evaluate if a hack can be displayed or not, and that's what you want them to do...

EDIT: this Lottis Quote was made before he delete his own post, so it's not an illusion!
Well it was fore a reason i deleted it. And you quoted me in a second.

[amykhar]

Nexis, he deleted because I deleted and rephrased. :)

[Lottis]

By the way, Nexialys. Im neather a he ore a american.

[nexialys]

Nexis, he deleted because I deleted and rephrased. :)god i'm too quick !!

(and no, using the word GOD don't make me a religious guy --> i'ts just a referee!)

By the way, Nexialys. Im neather a he ore a american.
good then.. lol... She, from the other part of the world that is not american...

(am i just joking here?!... yes yes... this is christmas time!)

[Paul M]

If you don't like them, change them, or don't use the hack. No one is forcing you to use it.

[Corriewf]

Stepping in here because I noticed the complaint yesterday and we are actively discussing the issue on my own forum. First off, I didn't find the terms offensive and thought the complaint was an oversensitivity. Upon discussion with some very rational people though, I have learned that many people DO find it offensive.

http://www.eaforums.com/forums/symposium/43111-word-nazi-offensive.html

At this point, I'm of the opinion that you don't want your code to insult people or tick them off. If your members are fine with it, leave the words as is. But, because somebody has said they were bothered by the posting of those word choices here, I think the polite thing to do would be to change them here. No harm, no foul. Just good manners.

But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

Amy I love your avatars!

Yes, use of those words in a CERTAIN context would be offensive, but the actual word it self is not profane or derogatory. Everyday in high schools around the world they teach about nazis for history class. My Grandpa (WW2 Vet), would roll in his grave about the censorship of this word.

Nazi(s) is a political term for a once existing political party. Would you censor Republican and Democrat? If it was maybe KKK and not a political term that is so pivotable to world history, then I would agree of its offensiveness.

Ignorance is indeed not bliss.

Btw, ignorance is not offensive either as it pertains to specific situations. :)

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

[Regs]

How many other reported post subject matter are used for discussion topics on other forums?

Is that offensive or rude? I dunno... on the one hand I don't really see too much of a problem but then when I see the "complaint" was marginalized (... "rather rudely"...) it kinda irks me for some reason.

[Lottis]

If you don't like them, change them, or don't use the hack. No one is forcing you to use it.
Im aware of that. Thank you, Paul M. I dont really understand why it have to bee words that affends other in it. This is not a complaining about the hack it self. But offcourse it could be me who is being sensitive.

The word nazi to me, is something terribel. And when its reapeted like that, i know its to show how things work, but fore me it is a very bad thing.

Sorry fore complaining about this, but its fore a reason.

Everyday in high schools around the world they teach about nazis for history class. My Grandpa (WW2 Vet), would roll in his grave about the censorship of this word.
Its perhaps the way the word is used.
Im not interested to discuss religion ore the wars. But i think ore i know my grandpa (WW2) is discusted by the word. ;)

How many other reported post subject matter are used for discussion topics on other forums?

Is that offensive or rude? I dunno... on the one hand I don't really see too much of a problem but then when I see the "complaint" was marginalized (... "rather rudely"...) it kinda irks me for some reason.
I asked nicly first. ;) And i dont mean to be rude. This does bother me alot, thats why i reacted. And like i said,perhaps im being sensitive.

[Corriewf]

Im aware of that. Thank you, Paul M. I dont really understand why it have to bee words that affends other in it. This is not a complaining about the hack it self. But offcourse it could be me who is being sensitive.

The word nazi to me, is something terribel. And when its reapeted like that, i know its to show how things work, but fore me it is a very bad thing.

Sorry fore complaining about this, but its fore a reason.


There are a lot of words out there that are terrible, yet not offending. I hate the word "bills", but that is due to the fact that they cost me money. :p

I am sure that if it was used in an offensive context, it would of been removed.

Not to insult or belittle, but it appears that you may not be very fluent in English. Could it be that the word was taken out of context?


Its perhaps the way the word is used.
Im not interested to discuss religion ore the wars. But i think ore i know my grandpa (WW2) is discusted by the word. ;)


He was disgusted by the ACTIONS of the Nazis, he would be even more disgusted by the ignorance of their existence.

Some people may or may not agree with war as a viable resolution, but we dont censor the word soldier. :)

[Lottis]

Not to insult or belittle, but it appears that you may not be very fluent in English. Could it be that the word was taken out of context?
My English is terribel, im sorry. But anyway, the Nazi means the same in Norwegian ore English. ;)

[Corriewf]

My English is terribel, im sorry. But anyway, the Nazi means the same in Norwegian ore English. ;)


I think to clarify here, you are more offended by the associated acts of National Socialist German Workers' Party, also known as nazis.

He didnt reference those acts, so the word by itself is really nothing beyond a noun.

[Lottis]

I think to clarify here, you are more offended by the associated acts of National Socialist German Workers' Party, also known as nazis.

He didnt reference those acts, so the word by itself is really nothing beyond a noun.
They still have there organisation and practise what Hitler learned them to do.

But im sorry that my emotions took ower here. And it was not my inntention to be rude, i let my fellings take over.

[Corriewf]

They still have there organisation and practise what Hitler learned them to do.


Which makes it even more important to be aware of their existence.


But im sorry that my emotions took ower here. And it was not my inntention to be rude, i let my fellings take over.

It is what makes us human. :)

You were not rude for the record.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

@Lottis

Thank you for reporting the post. If anyone find an offensive post on our forums, that is the way to get things handled. We try to handle all reports within reasonable time.

However sometimes it is not immediate clear if a report is valid (better rephrase that to: is action needed/wanted?), and it can take longer before maybe an action is taken. We have beeen discussing your report among staff and unfortunatly we have not decided on it yet. Some things are not simply black or white and we have to look at each report from both sides. As you can see by other responses in this thread, this is not an uncontroversial discussion.

Starting a public thread did not help in getting your report handled faster, and you only achieved the opposite of what you want, the word has been used many times more.

[Lottis]

Thank you fore your answere, Marco.

[Revpolar]

Which makes it even more important to be aware of their existence.



It is what makes us human. :)

You were not rude for the record.

Geez I didnt like nazi and commie so I replaced those with neo-con and socialist. Still offensive to some but not nearly as controversial. I saw it as just an example.
You could just replace the tags with liberal and conservative. Whatever you like.

[Corriewf]

Geez I didnt like nazi and commie so I replaced those with neo-con and socialist. Still offensive to some but not nearly as controversial. I saw it as just an example.
You could just replace the tags with liberal and conservative. Whatever you like.


Probably doesnt help that the word has been adapted to be synonymous with strict. Something more applicable to "our" themed jargon would be mod nazi which has been used to describe one or two of my staff. :(

[Princeton]

I would replace the words found within the addon...
any negative connatation should be removed ... as a business (eg. jelsoft), I wouldn't want to be associated with these word(s) in any manner.

Yes, they are just words; but, it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Dean C]

Whilst it doesn't offend me, it's just being childish and blatently rude on the authors behalf. How does floating an image relate to nazis? It's just some guy being an idiot. And I agree that he should be forced to change the tagname. Or how about I call my stable release of DCSEO:

Dean's Nazi Search Engine Optimization plugin

I think you see my point...

[vBTotal]

If you don't like them, change them, or don't use the hack. No one is forcing you to use it.
Thats how I feel as well, its simple.

[Corriewf]

Whilst it doesn't offend me, it's just being childish and blatently rude on the authors behalf. How does floating an image relate to nazis? It's just some guy being an idiot. And I agree that he should be forced to change the tagname. Or how about I call my stable release of DCSEO:

Dean's Nazi Search Engine Optimization plugin

I think you see my point...


Yes, but the question is, do you think it is wrong because you do not like the word or do you think it is wrong because it has broken a rule? There is a line which seperates the two.

If something is removed because you do not like it, then it is over censorship. If the word actually breaks the rules then every use of the word on vb.org should be removed and repeat offenders banned.... In that case, I can link several threads with profanity.

To be honest, no one is being forced to install this or use this word to utilize the code on thier board. There is always a choice to either not install or alter.

Today its nazi, tomorrow it is what, booger?

[Dean C]

Boogers didn't kill millions of Jews corrie and provoke the start of WWII where millions of servicemen lost their lives. I'm not here to debate whether it's a racially derogatory term, but just to point out the childishness on the authors part to use it in such a trivial way.

[Corriewf]

Boogers didn't kill millions of Jews corrie and provoke the start of WWII where millions of servicemen lost their lives. I'm not here to debate whether it's a racially derogatory term, but just to point out the childishness on the authors part to use it in such a trivial way.


I am not going to argue with that. You are right. Poor choice of words? Sure. Against the rules? Nah.

[Dean C]

I'm sure it's covered under here somewhere:

1.5 No "Offensive" Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws. This includes links in your signature, profile, bookmarks as well as posted images, photos and avatars. Staff will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.


Enough people have outlined their disapproval for it to be removed.

[Corriewf]

I'm sure it's covered under here somewhere:


Enough people have outlined their disapproval for it to be removed.

I fail to see where this word falls under the above criteria. Concentration camp ect? Yes, but not a word that abbreviates a political party.I am sure that if enough people disapproved, they would not have taken the amount of time to address it.

Like I said above, if need be remove it from all prior posts going allllllll the way back and ban repeat offenders then.

Just a little side note, not every nazi was evil, some where just kids that were forced to fight a war. There were a lot of kids on both sides of that war that lost their lives. If we lost that war would the world consider American GI offensive now?

[Dean C]

The allies were fighting for a totally different purpose - for peace. Unlike the Germans who were fighting to expand their empire. Big difference again. I shall end the political debate there. Let's let the staff do their job ;)

[Corriewf]

Whilst it doesn't offend me, it's just being childish and blatently rude on the authors behalf. How does floating an image relate to nazis? It's just some guy being an idiot.

If you want to get technical, your above use of the word idiot is a direct violation of the general rules here with no debate.


1.1 No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest.

Are you holding yourself to the same standards you place on others, Dean?

[Dean C]

I look forward to my warning ;)

[Corriewf]

The allies were fighting for a totally different purpose - for peace. Unlike the Germans who were fighting to expand their empire. Big difference again. I shall end the political debate there. Let's let the staff do their job ;)

I agree, but it is funny how quickly the world's perspective changes when someone else wins.


We have a little phrase over the pond here, " If it wasnt for the men that gave their lives for our freedom, we would all be speaking German right now".

I look forward to my warning ;)

:laugh: :p

[simon.]

I agree, its offencive, and racist.

[Paul M]

How can nazi be racist ?

This forum is full of posts and words that some (or many in some cases) will find offensive.

This just seems a case of "If I shout loud enough I might get my way".

[Borgs8472]

By the way, Nexialys. Im neather a he ore a american.
Coming next, phrase driven bbcodes which offend equally in all languages!

[Hanif]

phrase driven bbcodes which offend equally in all languages

I guess depends where you are in the world, right now for some
Mr Bush and Bin Laden are seen as hero's and for others murderers...

Peace in 2006.

Hanif

[Rich]

Hello,

I just sat here and read each post in this thread and then went and viewed what has been deemed as controversial. Like everyone else, I too have an opinion.

The manner in which those words were used I find ignorant on the authors behalf. Using such words in an environment like this was not needed and displays a complete lack of character on the authors part.

I don't believe that the author has broken any rules though. The words are not being used in a derogatory manner. They are not being thrown at anyone nor are they "calling" anyone those "names" in a manner where flaming could be attached to their use.

Niether of those words bother me as I know what each of them means. I do find his use of them to be childish considering there are thousands of words that could have been used in those examples.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what words may or may not be appropriate. If no one is being directly accused of being a commie or a nazi and the words are being used as "wrap around text" (very distasteful for the record), there has been no rules that have been broken.

The author of the mod has bad taste in how he wanted to represent his modification and possibly needs a lesson on respect for different cultures, but he certainly didn't break any rules in the manner he chose to use those words.

Personally, I think a stand up guy that WASN'T trying to offend anyone would just change the 2 examples so this thread can end and no one feels offended. Keeping the examples there isn't doing anyone any justice and changing them won't hurt his modification. It would be a win - win fix and this thread goes away.

Thats my 2 cents on this. Just change the images and everyone is happy. leaving them there is just being antagonistic at this points and does not display good character.

[Logikos]

Starting a public thread did not help in getting your report handled faster, and you only achieved the opposite of what you want, the word has been used many times more.

Very very true ;)

[nexialys]

can someone close this thread now ?! it is gone 500% farther than the original request...

[Reeve of shinra]

My first reaction is 'who cares'? If you dont like it, change it or don't use the hack. Borgs has a valid reason for using it as such on his site and whether any one else agrees with it or not it obviously sits well with the members at his site.

Lottis:

Why should a word, for thats all it is, have such power over you? Why are you giving up control of your life and your sense of self to another simply because a word is mentioned?

A girl can be overwieght and called fat and ugly all her life... does that mean she shouldn't hold her head up high with the respect and confidence of all that she has achieved in her life simply because she over hears someone use the word fat? I think not.

Going back to my rant ;)

As for the "Boogers didn't kill millions of Jews" comment, should we ban the use of other terms like German since thats where the party started and some may find it offensive? How about African Americans which make up a large percentage of men jailed in the US? We could keep going but at what would be the point? I think freedom of speech means having the displine to hear without having to react.

"Unlike the Germans who were fighting to expand their empire"

Who first started fighting because of the heavy penality impossed on thier forefathers for WWI were leaving them destitute. Like them or not, they turned Germany from what was a third world country at that time ot a first word country.

Not to say I support or endorse thier actions, but the point could be argued with merit from both sides ;)

[Dean C]

As for the "Boogers didn't kill millions of Jews" comment, should we ban the use of other terms like German since thats where the party started and some may find it offensive? How about African Americans which make up a large percentage of men jailed in the US? We could keep going but at what would be the point? I think freedom of speech means having the displine to hear without having to react.


May I ask why you choose to try and counter my arguement by using the "generalization" card? Sure, we could tar all Germans with the same brush. But one would think we're adult enough and intelligent enough to realise that's just nonsense. It's not the politics of what the author has used that's in question here, it's the manner in which he's used it.

[Chris M]

can someone close this thread now ?! it is gone 500% farther than the original request...

Agreed...

The staff will make a decision on this in due course, but maybe Borgs will do something of his own accord before we decide whether to do anything or not...

As for this thread, it is now closed...

Chris